The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 8th July - Trial Day 16

[Cattail]

That was my interpretation too.

Also, I didn't quite follow (and think I missed something) in relation to what TF said today about the clothes Allison was wearing, and it seems no further mention of the pyjamas. Would be interested to hear what others made of today's comments about the clothes.

I thought he was saying that Allison didn't have to have put these clothes on to go for a walk, that she probably put them on as soon as she changed out of her work clothes - as casual clothes to relax in.

So I thought from that statement that means

1. The pants did fit her well enough to be hers, and

2. When he asked GBC where are the pyjamas he wasn't saying that these pyjamas had been disposed of, he was saying - but Gerard was she ever really sitting there in her pyjamas?


IMO


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[DunnoZo]

lifeline bins at the school…

 

[Cattail]

Yes I've posted similar earlier.
However, was it made clear here by someone that the colour of the screen dot was not indicating the missing phone but rather GBCs phone? This was mentioned, I wasn't clear if that had been confirmed

I thought the police triangulation was a completely separate effort to locate the phone - nothing to do with the find my friends app.

IMO




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[Thinking]

That was my interpretation too.

Also, I didn't quite follow (and think I missed something) in relation to what TF said today about the clothes Allison was wearing, and it seems no further mention of the pyjamas. Would be interested to hear what others made of today's comments about the clothes.

My thoughts on this have always been that Allison was wearing her daggies after a big day (I know the pants are huge,but could have been from pregnancy days, I confess I have been known to wear such things when having a lazy night in), and the kids just presumed they were what they would call her pyjamas, as mine probably would if they saw me at night lying on the couch in such attire. It wasn't her walking gear, it was her lazy night in gear. I don't think he changed her - at a stretch I think he may have put her shoes on if she didn't already have them on. I thought this was what Fuller was getting at too. Would be interested to see others thoughts, I could be way off! Will have to do a re-read. I think GBC mentioning the pyjamas at this late stage may have been on the back of hearing his daughter mention them in her interview - to throw PT off - who knows. Funny they were never mentioned until then.

Snap catswhiskers and Cattail - you said what I was trying to say

 

[Bazinga]

I don't think he was ever going to leave Allison for Toni, he was also not about to finish things with Toni at that time, maybe later when he found someone new perhaps, but only when he wanted to finish the affair....the "I will be separated by July 1" was just blah blah blah BS from him, it kept Toni quiet for a bit longer, but this man wanted it all didn't he, the whole damn lot, family, lover(s), community standing, etc, the only problem was his wife didn't want a bar of all that, and something happened that night to make everything come crashing down in Ger's world, there was a trigger and we may never know exactly what the trigger was but there was one and Allison died

I've wondered this too. But he blabbed on to someone about needing a bigger car to fit the blended family so he must have imagined it might happen. The email about rental properties from Toni seems to say they at least talked about this as the future.

 

[possumheart]

I am so happy today. Everything that the defence said clicked with my belief about that night. The baby monitor was news to me, and the aircon. Was astounded that Bruce Overland emailed GG from the counselling rooms. That made my stomach turn a bit. I hope our sleuthers from the last few years feel the same as I do, if you can read this.
We are nearly there :countsheep:

 

[catswhiskers]

Sorry to be a party pooper but I think it's r for referee - spraying the penalty line in the World Cup, and then they've added a cute bit to the end


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Me too - it's all about the World Cup, as it has been for the past couple of weeks. I'm in a football mad house here, so I have watched my share of games in this World Cup and I know I've had a few laughs about the refs and their handy can of shaving cream for marking the field for certain important junctures in the game (like where the ball has to sit for a free kick - it stops players sneakily inching forward and taking the kick from a closer position) - we don't usually watch a lot of televised games and I've never seen it done before, and neither have my sons. It seems to have been a practice that's gained popularity during this World Cup, so I think it's just Google's usual humorous take on things.
:banane58:

 

[Aliwonders]

I think so too.

So many things about the phone. How long does an I phone stay charged? If Allison was going to be at a conference she would have charged her phone. Surely if it was freshly charged and on quiet it would have been able to be picked up for longer. To make sure it was all good for the next day. There were so many things NOT DONE the night before in readiness for the conference. The dresses ready, Her phone ready, Her getting ready....nothing adds up to make his story probable.
I still don't know what it means that it was TRIANGULATED!! Can anyone explain that?

 

[ford71]

I thought he was saying that Allison didn't have to have put these clothes on to go for a walk, that she probably put them on as soon as she changed out of her work clothes - as casual clothes to relax in.

So I thought from that statement that means

1. The pants did fit her well enough to be hers, and

2. When he asked GBC where are the pyjamas he wasn't saying that these pyjamas had been disposed of, he was saying - but Gerard was she ever really sitting there in her pyjamas?


IMO


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Interesting take on this part.
I have a strong image of Allison sitting in front of the TV, back to the open area of the home, wearing a set of PJs and watching the Footy Show.
There really is no reason that this is the case at all.... as someone just mentioned using the Footy Show in his story produces familiarity to people and a timeline moment.
And maybe there were never PJs and what she was found in is what she relaxes in after work.

Funny how quickly you can form your own pictures and how easily they can be inaccurate

 

[Snails]

Following on from the notes I took in court today up until the 11.45am break-
Todd Fuller for the prosecution –
“Trials are about people, pressures and circumstances. It is not unknown for someone of good character to step outside that good character and do something unexpected. People under pressure react differently. It involves relationships pressures, mental health pressures and business pressures.
Has this man unlawfully killed his wife? With an intention to kill? You the jury make assessments of people in everyday life but you have been banned from having any relationship with any witnesses - you are restricted to what they say and how they say it.
GBC marriage was a façade. Allison battled to keep the marriage going for years while GBC was living a double life. A deceptive life – slinking around with T McH and Michelle Hammond in front of his parents. That shows what he is capable of doing.
Different faces of GBC – anguished husband. The building pressures on GBC which culminated in the death of his wife. Allison was coping with her pressures but it was the reverse for GBC. Pressures were brought to bear from his wife, T McH, and the business. Not sudden pressures but building pressures, business and relationship pressures.
Allison taking to relationship counsellor Carmel Ritchie about herself – “I am a wife and mother”
GBC to relationship counsellor about himself – “I am the President of the Chamber of Commerce, I am on the school P & C committee, I am the principal of my Real Estate business”
1) Killed wife
2) Unlawfully
3) With intent
Circumstantial evidence – much maligned term – less compelling but can be equally as compelling.
Accumulation of objective facts leads to a conclusion. Like looking at a TV screen up close – lots of dots – but step back and the picture becomes clearer.
Blood in Captiva – 1 in 5600 billion chance it ISN’T Allison’s, but can’t say for sure it is. All the family were tested and it’s not their DNA.
Look at the evidence through the eyes of GBC – treatment for depression, keeping marriage together, male heir. Allison was initially disappointed because she thought GBC would be disappointed not to have a male heir.
Blood, leaves, scratches, extra marital affairs, business pressures.
Allison tells us in death – let’s look at where her body was found.
Body was dumped where it was found over 13 kilometres from home. Kholo Creek runs in the opposite direction to where she was found so for her body to have washed upstream she would have to walk even further. Allison was a reluctant exerciser and we heard the angst over the treadmill purchase. Would she walk over 13 kilometres? GBC told the police that Allison doesn’t like walking up hills. Allison needs to be at the office at 8am to meet Kate Rankin. There was not a single sighting of Allison on that 13 kilometre walk to the bridge.
GBC drove Captiva as it was less suspicious to be in a dark Captiva than a white Prado with personalised number plates. GBC knew Kholo Creek area and needed somewhere nearby to dispose of body. There have been significant changes to the Kholo Creek bridge and surrounds since 2012. It is now a cleared area. It rained just 2 days before the body was found which made the area muddy.
Don’t think about access to under the bridge today – think back to 2012. GBC pulled car over to right hand side of road. The body was pushed off this ledge under the bridge (photos shown here of how the bridge looked in 2012 including photos of Allison’s body lying in situ). The dent in the mud was still visible in May and even August to a lesser extent. There were no signs of disturbance around the body. Allison did not fall from the bridge. She was not suicidal. Dr Milne gave evidence that if Allison had fallen from the bridge she would have sustained a serious injury. Water level under the bridge did not reach the body (tidal charts given jury to look at in own time) – at best, water may have “lapped” the body. If the body was shifted by water there would have been injuries on the body. The body was consistent with being in place shortly after death. There needed to be a force of water to drive the body onto the ledge under the bridge.
Decomposition affected the autopsy completely. But this trial is not about determining a cause of death. Diatoms were in bloom and plentiful in the creek at the time of Allison’s death. Nothing was detected in Allison’s liver or bones. No access to the lungs due to decomposition."

 

[LadyBird1]

I need a cigarette. And I don't even smoke. I was almost screaming out his name a few times "oh Todd, yes, yes, that's it". I think i need a little bit of a lie down now.

Your comment re needing a cigarette made me laugh out loud! Yeah, gotta agree, Todd Fuller's all right hey?
Extra special much respected Doc. Watson has a special recipe/ remedy for occasions such as these. (It's not cigarettes either) Ha ha ha !
Appears this Fuller fellow is exciting by his sheer knack of being on the money. By his knack of being able to see through a haze of lies, deceit and general filth.
Such degrading filth that has never been seen before in Australian history.

 

[HoolyDooly]

Excellent job Todd, and WS relay team for - gold medal performance keeping up with Todd !!

However I would really like to see the business with the face-to-face call GBC and NBC had in the middle of that night ??? Or did that get KO'd earlier on ?

 

[Makara]

Yep, he certainly did!

 

[Mumma Bear]

I don't think Todd has mentioned that Allison was a couple of days before the 19 th trying to reduce her life insurance. This can go on the list I am making.
Also maybe the pyjamas, I don't think he said today they were not found or has he?

He did mention the pyjamas in the context of doubting she wore them and was probably dressed in the pants she was found in. It seemed to be in answer to the defence's doubt that a dead body could be redressed. IMHO they didn't need to do this - it's not unbelievable at all that GBC redressed her. Missing pyjamas and what that suggests is a much better argument.

The talk of taking the Captiva is another lost point that could have been made. Why would you take your wife's car if you were worried about her being late for a conference? You're going to make her even later when she turns up!

So, points off for those two oversights, but overall Fuller seems to have hit exactly the right note. It really seems like he 'gets' her.

 

[alioop]

I don't believe the pyjamas were mentioned today, so maybe they are for tomorrow's list - I am wondering if this could be in the context of some mention of a "clean-up" (as perceived by Mrs Dickie) and any other missing items?

The problem with Mrs Dickie's evidence of a big clean up is that she hadn't been to the house in a while, perhaps a long time. So it's not relevant to the state of the house the night or day before or even the week before. That's why the prosecution didn't use this evidence, she just managed to get it in before Danny Boyle asked if he could stop her there. The same thing with the photo of them walking into the future that she said had been moved. There was no connection to the night before.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Toddy boy... * smooch to other cheek (from LB1) (Trooper got first smooch) heh heh!

Toddy boy... * supersmartstonecoldfox
Supersmartstonecoldfox ... Has ultra perceptive talents.
Supersmartstonecoldfox ... Has ability to see things in their raw state.
Supersmartstonecoldfox ... Is henceforth from this day onwards, held in highest esteem by all normal Australians, and all websleuthers. Held in high esteem by people world wide.
Todd Fuller (aka supersmartstonecoldfox), shall henceforth go into the Annals of Australian history as one of the best!
Fuller QC faced a slippery crooked conniving cheating con-artist criminal adversary; and Fuller never once flinched. He faced him head on and he was not persuaded by extravagant tales of fancy or any red herrings, or travel extravaganza tales, or supposed references according to genealogical inferences.
No. Fuller cut through all the crap with his eyes firmly fixed upon the goal.
Fuller stuck to the subject, murder most foul.
Mr Todd Fuller, Sir, you have my utmost admiration. Thank you.

Did I also note on Chanel 9 News this evening that Mr T Fuller QC was wearing a yellow tie today.

 

[alioop]

Excellent job Todd, and WS relay team for - gold medal performance keeping up with Todd !!

However I would really like to see the business with the face-to-face call GBC and NBC had in the middle of that night ??? Or did that get KO'd earlier on ?

Face to face call did not happen at all. Was a technical error by the forensic program.

 

[toe]

I am so happy today. Everything that the defence said clicked with my belief about that night. The baby monitor was news to me, and the aircon. Was astounded that Bruce Overland emailed GG from the counselling rooms. That made my stomach turn a bit. I hope our sleuthers from the last few years feel the same as I do, if you can read this.
We are nearly there :countsheep:

Poss I don't think Fuller was inferring Bruce (GBC) emailed TM whilst they were at the relationship counsellor Carmel Ritchie's rooms. I think it was more a sarcastic comment based on his belief Allison was doing all in her power to save her marriage and was of the belief GBC was also, but the truth was GBC was still in contact with TM via the Bruce email method behind Allisons back.

 

[enthralled]

I don't believe the pyjamas were mentioned today, so maybe they are for tomorrow's list - I am wondering if this could be in the context of some mention of a "clean-up" (as perceived by Mrs Dickie) and any other missing items?

Didn't Prosecution mention that one of the daughters said she had on a jumper etc and Todd Fuller suggested that may have been what she was found in ?

 

[Cattail]

So many things about the phone. How long does an I phone stay charged? If Allison was going to be at a conference she would have charged her phone. Surely if it was freshly charged and on quiet it would have been able to be picked up for longer. To make sure it was all good for the next day. There were so many things NOT DONE the night before in readiness for the conference. The dresses ready, Her phone ready, Her getting ready....nothing adds up to make his story probable.
I still don't know what it means that it was TRIANGULATED!! Can anyone explain that?

"With triangulation, three cell phone towers are used to approximate the location of the cell phone in question. Towers are constantly pinging cell phones to provide service, so a user's whereabouts and path of travel are easily traceable. Accuracy, however, depends on the density of the cell tower population."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404494,00.asp


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