The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 9th July - Trial Day 17

[Maigret]

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 34s

Justice Byrne - if jury finds #badenclay not guilty of murder, that's when jury must consider manslaughter.

So is the judge inferring here that he did kill her?

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 33s

Judge says motive is not material to murder or manslaughter. #badenclay

Judge says sometimes the motive is never known to anybody but the murderer. Prosecution does not have to establish motive. #badenclay

Judge says evidence of things the deceased has said can be unreliable. Most of it is secondhand. #badenclay

 

[sheldor]

I've wondered about the manslaughter issue for a long time -- the Crown has been saying jury need to be satisfied that he caused her death and that he intended to do so. But they can find him guilty of manslaughter if they are satisfied that he caused her death but it was accidental (in the sense that he didn't mean to kill her i.e. he may have lashed out).

 

[Amee]

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 31s

Justice Byrne says under the law, he must put the alternative charge of manslaughter to the jury to consider. #badenclay

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 1m
Byrne: Sometimes the motive, if any, will never be known to anyone but the offender.

 

[Amee]

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 47s

Justice Byrne is now cautioning the jury about things said by Allison #badenclay when they're relayed through a witness.

 

[sheldor]

I've wondered about the manslaughter issue for a long time -- the Crown has been saying jury need to be satisfied that he caused her death and that he intended to do so. But they can find him guilty of manslaughter if they are satisfied that he caused her death but it was accidental (in the sense that he didn't mean to kill her i.e. he may have lashed out).

Oh interesting, Judge has just said neither crown nor defence are suggesting it was manslaughter.

 

[Amee]

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 40s

Justice Byrne - Queensland law allows recordings of interviews with children to used as evidence. There were six with #badenclay children

 

[PrimeSuspect]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 59s
Six interviews with three children - Justice Byrne

Taking evidence from children in this way is now routine practice - Justice Byrne

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 27s

Judge says the recorded interviews with the Baden-Clay children are evidence. None spoke of hearing anything.

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 27s

Judge says the recorded interviews with the Baden-Clay children are evidence. None spoke of hearing anything.

Judge says it is routine to show recorded interviews with children rather than have them testify in court. #badenclay

Judge says the jury will have transcripts of recordings with them. The recording is evidence, not the transcript. #badenclay

 

[Amee]

Emmy Kubainski ‏@emmykubainski 3m

Judge warning jury of unreliable of things said to Allison. A risk witness's testimony is not a reliable a/c @7NewsBrisbane #badenclay

 

[Timmy]

Is anyone left with any reasonable doubt that he killed her, based on the evidence presented in Court?

No...not me.. But must admit I made up my mind at the now infamous 'little bit hurt' interview and really haven't had an open-mind since- would not have been accepted for the jury.... Like most on here , I assume!

 

[Meryl12]

I know Mr Fuller is privy to information unavailable to us, but am I the only one surprised that he has chosen to emphasise the affair as motive, rather than the money? I've always thought it was desperation over his financial situation that pushed him over the edge. As a bankrupt he would have been unable to sell real estate and he would have had considerable difficulty getting an accounting role. So he would have lost social standing as well as being virtually unemployable in his chosen profession/s.

I think if he chose the desperate financial situation, which included personal loans from "friends" it would have become too complex, involving too many people which would complicate things a lot for the jury.
By focusing on the womanising aspect and constantly including the desperate financial situation, I think Mr Fuller showed how self centered Gerard Baden-Clay was, nothing was going to stop his "big spender" self image.
I think it worked, Gerard Baden-Clay was shown as only caring for himself and not what he had done to his childrens future, by his mistresses and mismanagement of everything.
Don't forget his mistresses are people too, he decieved his mistresses, he decieved his wife, etc etc.....he decieved everyone.
To emphasise the affair as the motive was the best way to go - it emcompassed everything.
With a guilty verdict he loses all of the above anyway, and I hope the children's maternal grandparents are raising them.

 

[Cattail]

So is the judge inferring here that he did kill her?

Not at all IMO

He is just saying if they say no to one charge they must consider the other


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PrimeSuspect]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 57s
Don't substitute transcripts for what you see and hear in recordings. Sometimes mistakes - Justice Byrne

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 39s
Byrne: What you observed during the views is not evidence.



David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 54s
If I don't touch on evidence in summing up, doesn't mean it's less important. You are the judges of the facts.

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 49s

Judge says the view of the Kholo Creek bridge and the house is not evidence. It's just to assist their understanding. #badenclay

Judge says the areas has changed considerably since 2012. #badenclay

 

[Timmy]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 57s
Don't substitute transcripts for what you see and hear in recordings. Sometimes mistakes - Justice Byrne

That's interesting.... Can they listen to recordings again while deliberating?

 

[Amee]

That's interesting.... Can they listen to recordings again while deliberating?

Judge says the jury will have transcripts of recordings with them. The recording is evidence, not the transcript. #badenclay