The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 9th July - Trial Day 17

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nope, I asked a certain journo at the beginning of the trial if the roundabout would be bought up & also if any immunity was offered to anyone & got a reply that she would be very surprised if either of those happened or would happen.

Do you think their certainty was because that kind of info would be in the bail hearing or because they had some inside knowledge?
 
not only us with tech problems today

Marissa Calligeros ‏@marissa_sc 1m

Experiencing technical difficulties on our live #badenclay blog today. Court has adjourned for lunch, will return at 2.30pm @brisbanetimes
 
would also explain why the girls heard nothing good thinking kg1, I have always thought they fought and he choked her but outside makes more sense

I tend to think it all happened outside in the patio area to, some sort of drama/argument unfolded out there. Was someone else there as well apart from GBC and Allison? Things got heated, and in order to get things quiet again someone got physical and Allison fell and hit her head. That's one possible scenario, I don't think we will ever never know exactly, the people who do know are not talking or when they do talk they tell porkies .... or they are sadly deceased :(
 
1.02pm: Justice John Byrne said a person who caused the death of another, directly or indirectly, was deemed to have killed the person.

He said to convict Baden-Clay of murder, the jury had to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he caused the death of his wife and did so with an intention to kill or cause her grievous bodily harm.

He said the prosecution case was that the accused killed his wife and that he intended to do so or to cause her grievous bodily harm.

He said the defence case was the accused did not kill his wife and although she died unnaturally, it was reasonable to suggest she died from alcohol or sertraline toxicity, drowned or suffered the effects of serotonin syndrome which led to her drowning or falling to her death.

He said manslaughter was the unlawful killing of a person in circumstances where there was no intent to do so.

Justice Byrne said if the jury could not find the accused guilty of murder, it was open to it to return a verdict on manslaughter.

He cautioned the jury on evidence heard in the trial about what Ms Baden-Clay may have said.

“There is a risk a witnesses’ testimony is not a reliable account of what happened,” he said.

Justice Byrne said a witness may have misheard or misinterpreted what was said by the deceased.

He said it was up to the jury to determine whether the accused told falsehoods to the police.

Justice Byrne said the jury had heard evidence from numerous expert witnesses in the trial

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
 
My conclusions so far -

* Fuller sounded to be absolutely brilliant. Super happy with his closing. Factual, thorough and pretty well impossible to dispute. Easy to understand, doesn't sound boring like you would 'tune out' so it'd be absorbed. Is that the case, were the jury listening intently to ever word taking it all in? I agree with him making the main motive the women rather than money. The money was a pressure point but I think the affair and the personal aspect is more likely to make someone go to that level. The other thing is the money pressure was there but not just there *that night* whereas the thing with the women was relevant to that night, to both of them, and then the thing the next day. So it points to the timing much clearer.

* Judge Byrne, sounds to have summarised the evidence so far in a way that supports the prosecution. Not because he's trying to taint it that way but because the actual evidence swings that way. Excellent. I like too that he said the case being circumstantial is fine and that they can deduce things from the evidence and make inferences. Just so long as if they find him guilty it's because the only reasonable inference from the circumstantial evidence is that he killed her. That's all good in my opinion because the defence's suggestion was even less reasonable and the only conclusion that anyone understanding of the facts could come to is that he's guilty, so I hope the jury got all this as they've had less time to think on it than we have. I wonder if the Judge will explain what reasonable doubt means too. I'd like to know they understand it's not 100% proof, it's that there's no other reasonable explanation for what happened.

The inquiry into the media and the juror - It sounds like the juror reported it and therefore may have shut it down. I wouldn't think it can cause a mistrial unless the juror was shown to have ignored the instructions of the Judge and/or breached their duty. The case is so up there in the media to think that they wouldn't have heard anything at all would be pretty impossible which is why I think they've said they have said to ignore what they hear rather than to not hear it.
 
He took the jury through the evidence of each of the expert witnesses, including forensic pathologist Dr Nathan Milne.

He said the body showed signs of both putrefaction and mummification and showed signs of hypostasis, which meant it was moved into the position in which it was found soon after death.

Justice Byrne said Dr Milne said there was no evidence of injuries to the hands, hyoid.

He said there was a probably injury on the internal lining of the chest wall, between the 4th and sixth ribs. He said there was a chipped tooth but no other abnormalities and no sign of sexual assault.

He said Dr Milne found the deceased did not die of natural causes.

He said Dr Milne thought alcohol and sertraline toxicity was an unlikely cause of death but he could not rule it out.

Justice Byrne took the jury to the evidence of entomologist Dr James Wallman, who said he thought the body may have been deceased for about 11 days. He could not say whether the body had been submerged in water.

Justice Byrne said forensic scientist Dr Amanda Reeves obtained a DNA profile from the deceased.

He said she found a possible second DNA contributor under one of her fingernails but it was below the reportable threshold.

Justice Byrne said Dr Olaf Drummer told the jury about sertraline and its metabolite, adding that the normal therapeutic range was between 50mg and up to 200mg.

He said Dr Drummer could not think of a single case were sertraline was associated with a person’s death not in combination with other drugs.

www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensl...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
 
On the colour wheel, purple is directly opposing yellow. In colour terms, yellow is the exact opposite of purple.

Correct me if I'm wrong but on the news last night did I see EBC with Purple highlights in her hair?
 
He said Dr Drummer found alcohol levels would be heightened in a decomposing body because it would produce alcohol.

He said if an overdose had of occurred, he would have expected much higher levels in the liver.

Justice Byrne said Dr Drummer thought sertraline did not contribute to Ms Baden-Clay’s death.

He took the jury to the evidence of forensic toxicologist Dr Michael Robertson, who accepted the deceased may of not had sertraline in her stomach at all when she died, due to the level of decomposition.

He said it was likely Ms Baden-Clay had a tolerance to it, as a long-term user.

Justice Byrne said Dr Robertson thought it was unlikely sertraline would have contributed to her death.

He said botanist Dr Gordon Guymer examined six plant species, four that were entwined on the hair of the deceased, including Crepe Myrtle, Cat’s Claw Creeper, eucalypt leaves and Fish Bone fern. He said Lillipilly and Chinese Elm were found on the deceased’s body.

He said Dr Guymer found only eucalypts and Chinese Elms at Kholo Creek while all six were found at the Baden-Clay home in Brookfield.

Justice Byrne turned to the relationship between the accused and his mistress, Toni McHugh.

www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensl...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
 
He said that the affair was discovered and ended in September, 2011, but resumed again in December that year.

Justice Byrne said the accused went to Ms McHugh and told her he loved her.

He said at some stage the accused suggested they should not meet again until after he left his wife.

He said there was some correspondence between them in which the accused planned to leave his wife by 1 July, 2012.

Justice Byrne said that by mid-April 2012 the pair were in regular contact.

He said they spoke by phone for more than 29 minutes on the evening of April 19, 2012.

He said Ms McHugh lost it when he told her his wife would likely be at the same real estate conference as she was attending the next day.

Justice Byrne said Ms McHugh told the accused she needed to know what his plan was and how he was going to change things so they could be together.

He said Baden-Clay’s response was that he was thinking of selling the business.

He said the next day, Ms McHugh called the accused, and he told her his wife was missing.

Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay replied that he had not argued with her.

He said the next day, Baden-Clay told Ms McHugh to “tell the truth” to police.

He said he called her again later that day, while she was in a police interview, asking whether she had told them they were together.

Justice Byrne said she told him “yes”.

He said they met for the last time in June, 2012, at a block of units in Fortitude Valley, in which Baden-Clay told her “things aren’t looking good for me, you should fall in love with someone else”.

Justice Byrne’s summing up resumes at 2.30pm.

www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensl...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
 
Actually Trooper it wouldn't surprise me either - whupped puppies still love their Masters :-(
 
David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 1m
The deceased did not die of natural causes - Justice Byrne

Pathologist found alcohol or Sertraline unlikely cause of death - Justice Byrne

Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 1m
Byrne: Dr Milne considers alcohol and/or sertraline toxicity is an unlikely cause of death, but because of decomposition.. 1/2

Byrne:... cannot altogether exclude such a possibility. 2/2

There is the reasonable doubt! It's possible but not probable.

I was disappointed that this couldn't be definitively ruled out, but I'm hoping the jury will find that this alternative, "unlikely" cause of death is not enough to introduce a 'reasonable' amount of doubt when combined with the rest of the evidence.
 
Do you think their certainty was because that kind of info would be in the bail hearing or because they had some inside knowledge?
I still believe this will come up as important evidence when new charges are laid against a 3rd party:jail:
 
would also explain why the girls heard nothing good thinking kg1, I have always thought they fought and he choked her but outside makes more sense

There are no screams when there is a pillow or hand hard over your face, no breath in or out. After the first few seconds of 'WTH' is then you realise I must fight for my life. Unconsciousness is then not far away.
 
The clincher: Gerard rang Indooroopilly Police station before he went looking.
That is the little pearler that says 'guilty'.
 
David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 37s

Fuller says in those circumstances it's unlikely Allison would have been walking the streets of Brookfield #badenclay

He tells police in two interviews that day they had 15 minutes talk 'last night'. He doesn't mention April 18 then - Fuller
#badenclay

Todd Fuller flicks through a copy of Allison's journal #badenclay

BBM - I always thought that Wednesday 18th "coffee" story to do the 15 minute session was weird in the extreme!
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but on the news last night did I see EBC with Purple highlights in her hair?

Good grief :(

I think Olivia will be a howling mess if the verdict is guilty. I don't think she will cope and will need to be helped from the courtroom.

My opinion is he killed her in the bedroom, smothered her on the bed. Easy to get on top of her and hold down the pillow or cushion over her face. If she already had a cold and had some breathing difficulty due to that it would have made things even easier for him.
 
I still believe this will come up as important evidence when new charges are laid against a 3rd party:jail:

If a third party was involved, why would the police have to wait until after G's trial to lay charges? I genuinely don't know, so if anyone else can explain this it would be greatly appreciated!
 
Have not read the thread but first up this morning the judge told the court that someone "wearing purple" had approached the jury or a member of the jury and asked them what their opinion was if they had to give odds for or against a guilty verdict... Something along those lines. Wow people are stupid!
Olivia wearing purple today. Lol

Confirms my opinion re: BC family/ supporters trying for a mistrial.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
72
Guests online
697
Total visitors
769

Forum statistics

Threads
589,923
Messages
17,927,699
Members
228,002
Latest member
zipperoni
Back
Top