The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 10th July - Trial Day 18

[digitup]

A friend who knows my pre-occupation with this case suggested I read Twelve Angry Men when I said the Jury was out.

Just spent 90 minutes and a couple of glasses with my spouse watching it instead. It's the classic jury deliberation story.

Well worth the time. No spoilers on the verdict.

http://youtu.be/RelOJfFIyp8
[video=youtu;RelOJfFIyp8]http://youtu.be/RelOJfFIyp8"]http://youtu.be/RelOJfFIyp8[/video]

I studied it at school in Film Appreciation,it should have been on the Legal Studies list.Great film, highly recommended !

 

[McCoy]

Yikes!! What case was that? Fellow Kiwi here :seeya:

I was on a jury 2 years ago, when we were sequestered first thing we had to hand out mobile phones in

One girl on the jury kept whinging the whole time " I just want my phone back, I don't care if he's guilty or innocent - just decide something quickly so I get my phone back.

Another girl said " I just hate that lady barrister - so up herself, I think he is innocent but I don't want her to win so I'll vote guilty"

You find a few sensible people take charge, write the definition charge on the whiteboard and go around the group asking them if they think the defendant actually did do those actions and trying to get them to focus. A bit like high school teaching really. One man and I did this we just asked each jury member did they think his actions meant he had reached the definition and what parts of the evidence supported this - we put up a pro and con table. People settled down fairly quickly and reached a verdict. It would be fascinating to know what they discussed today.

 

[Consider]

Best movie E V E R - I'm pretty sure I was less than 12 when I first watched it without blinking.

The "Bomb" as my nephew says.

"Do yourself the ol' one, two, three : favour" (as Molly Meldrum might have said in 'the day')

Seriously - a worthwhile activity for us all between now and the jury returning verdict.

J M O

 

[Thinking]

Is it just me? I can't get over the difference about ten kgs weight loss has done to his appearance. Hardly recognizable as the local slimey real estate agent I dealt with.

I know what you mean. He was looking more like his old self in court AAAA.

 

[Tangled_Web]

Gerard says he was asleep.. Gerard says, there was no argument.. Gerard says he knows nothing of panic and hiding the body and making up a story. Gerard says he didn't do it, she did it to herself. That's Gerards case. That's the defence he has paid for, and that is the defence his legal team argued. A jury cannot go beyond what the defendant has stated.

Gerard no more wants a manslaughter verdict than I do. There is one reason and one only why Gerard hasn't led a case for the argument, the panic, the restraint, all that stuff, is because a manslaughter conviction doesn't get him the money. He murdered for the money.

I believe changing his plea to manslaughter was not an option due to the family name. He will claim innocence to the end to uphold that name - to protect his father's name and maybe protect his father in other ways as well ... I felt he performed on the stand for his father.

 

[Tangled_Web]

I know what you mean. He was looking more like his old self in court AAAA.

I thought GBC had put on quite a bit of weight - but I only saw him on the screen.

 

[Bazinga]

I am still convinced that Gerard had scouted around the local area - prior to the 19th of April 2012 - to find the best spot to dispose of a body.

It seems unlikely that he would have discovered such a suitable spot in the middle of the night, and straight after murdering his wife.

How did he know that the bridge: had a place for a car to pull in, had a ledge which a body could be rolled off, and where a body would land in a place where it would not be washed away into the river, not be found too quickly, and not be easily seen from the road above?

To my mind, this all indicates PRE-MEDITATION.

If Gerard disposed of Allison's body at the bridge as Todd Fuller described, then he must have already known these details about the bridge, I believe.

I've wondered if GBC and TMcH ever parked there at night. They couldn't go "parking" anywhere where people might see the car. Bleugh! The thought makes me sick.

 

[catswhiskers]

Today one of the first tweets said that GBC was clean shaven. In his closing, didn't TF mention that GBC hadn't shaved since the day the alleged shaving cuts happened? Interesting that he took the plunge and got rid of the beard today if that's the case.

 

[Trooper]

That's right he had a glimmer in his eye and murder on his mind,

And of course he had a duty to inform the insurance company, that would be the first thing on my mind if my beloved was just found in a ditch somewhere........

Lucky the insurance salesman/marriage counsellor was on hand to advise him.

My old mate Greg... been a long time coming to watch Gerard sitting on the rough end of the pineapple, Greg..

 

[Thinking]

If you only have one person who is not very bright, you are lucky, I've always thought there should be some kind of IQ test for jurors
now that evidence has got so technical in many cases.
Maybe you get more intelligent jurors in Australia than we do in NZ, here most people who have responsible jobs simply can't afford to
leave their job for up to two months in big cases, and are able to get excused from duty.

In the most important trial probably ever in NZ, we had jurors who slept some afternoons, passed notes to each other, one was a special needs person, another supposedly baked a birthday
cake for the defendant, and the final insult was when a few of them tried to turn up at the party to celebrate them finding the defendant not guilty.
After listening to two months of evidence they came back with their verdict after a few hours on a Friday afternoon, evidently some had holidays planned for the next week.
It's just a lottery having a jury here, if I was guilty of a crime I'd take my chances with a jury, and if innocent would go
for a Judge only.
I'm a bit worried what will happen in this case if the jurors have got annoyed with the Judge and vice versa.
I don't have a huge problem with what the juror looked up online, they may have looked up far more when they knew they had been called for jury service, and no one will ever know.

Unbelievable re jurors in that case in NZ!!! Really??

 

[Bazinga]

The problem is Gerard has been unable to separate his real self from Gerard 'the brand' who is Mr Mom yada yada and would not do this. That's why my tummy did somersaults when his blog was put on the table and he said 'honestly'. He is gambling that the jury are dumb enough to sentence Gerard 'the brand' and not Bruce Overland. Gerard 'the brand' is a living lie.

Did the jury ever get to see or hear the blog and what GBC said about taking over while Allison went away? If not, why not?

 

[kiwijayne]

Unbelievable re jurors in that case in NZ!!! Really??

Here is an article about it
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/2518912/Plenty-of-doubt-in-Bain-jurys-verdict

 

[digitup]

Let's hope it's not Eeny,meeny,miny,moe...or rock,paper,scissors

 

[marlywings]

Today one of the first tweets said that GBC was clean shaven. In his closing, didn't TF mention that GBC hadn't shaved since the day the alleged shaving cuts happened? Interesting that he took the plunge and got rid of the beard today if that's the case.

He had to remove the beard for further tests not too long after his arrest. Going by all the media sketches of him throughout the different court appearances he's been minus a beard. Any of our members in court notice if he's had a beard at any time??

June 19, 2012

It also was revealed yesterday that police have applied to the court to have Baden-Clay's beard removed to allow for further forensic testing.

http://www.news.com.au/national/ger...bail-application/story-e6frfkvr-1226400693628

 

[possumheart]

Did the jury ever get to see or hear the blog and what GBC said about taking over while Allison went away? If not, why not?

I believe it was read out just before a break and there was some legal argument after, but that may have been around the time G wrote a note.

 

[digitup]

I believe that that basic necessities re toilet paper,soap,razors and shaving cream are supplied courtesy of the tax payer? #SSS

 

[kiwi50]

I was on a jury 2 years ago, when we were sequestered first thing we had to hand out mobile phones in

One girl on the jury kept whinging the whole time " I just want my phone back, I don't care if he's guilty or innocent - just decide something quickly so I get my phone back.

Another girl said " I just hate that lady barrister - so up herself, I think he is innocent but I don't want her to win so I'll vote guilty"

You find a few sensible people take charge, write the definition charge on the whiteboard and go around the group asking them if they think the defendant actually did do those actions and trying to get them to focus. A bit like high school teaching really. One man and I did this we just asked each jury member did they think his actions meant he had reached the definition and what parts of the evidence supported this - we put up a pro and con table. People settled down fairly quickly and reached a verdict. It would be fascinating to know what they discussed today.

It's a relief to know you and and at least one other juror were sensible and intelligent enough to grasp the issues, but scarey to think what if there had been 10 people like the two jurors you described. If I had to spend days debating with really stupid people not sure whether I'd hang out for what I believed in, or wave a white flag and escape before I strangled them.

 

[Oddsocks]

I did. But I'm not happy with it as it looks like a cartoon I will be restarting this weekend.


Eta This makes me look mad but I was actually replying to froglady

 

[Amee]

Today one of the first tweets said that GBC was clean shaven. In his closing, didn't TF mention that GBC hadn't shaved since the day the alleged shaving cuts happened? Interesting that he took the plunge and got rid of the beard today if that's the case.

most of the first tweets or updates daily describe him "clean shaven" ''

Dressed in a dark suit, with a tie, and clean-shaven

even back to March11 2013

A clean-shaven Gerard Baden-Clay, still wearing his wedding ring

 

[possumheart]

I tend to think this is where Gerard is headed if he does time, Wolston Park.
An article of about Max Sica's management.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/22689737/convicted-killer-max-sica-moved-from-maximum-security-prison/