The Verdict Waiting Room

[Fuskier]

Sorry Timmy, I did see your question and meant to answer it. Thanks for reminding me. Firstly, and this been discussed before, if the accused admits guilt to their lawyers then those lawyers are limited in what they can present to the court. They can't suggest an alternate theory of say suicide or point the finger at someone else. However if the accused does not admit guilt then they are free to propose alternate possibilities just like in GBC case.

The second bail hearing was the first serious mention of depression. His lawyers raised it before Judge Applegarth and sought bail on the basis this possibility was a change in circumstances for GBC bail status. They were clear (I was in court) that it was the prosecutions evidence, namely the toxicology report that showed Allison had greatly increased levels of sertraline in her body. The judge did not like it one little bit and pointed out it was very unlikely she overdosed then walked 14 Kms to Kholo.
However for the purposes of the bail application he decided that this theory or suggestion by the defence did not change GBC's circumstances and refused bail.

Ever since then both for the committal and trial, both the defence legal teams have tried to present as much evidence on the depression/ suicide possibility as they could. This would have been the lawyers and GBC with his family all working on this together. And there is no problem with the lawyers doing that as clearly GBC has not admitted guilt to them. Hope this answers your question.

BIB. Yes, those of us who are legal illiterates now understand the DT approach better from a legal view, that the accused, his family & his witnesses have worked together with his legal team to present this view. However, I remain uncomfortable with the degree of denigration of the alleged murderer's victim in his defense. My opinion only.

 

[alioop]

BIB. Yes, those of us who are legal illiterates now understand the DT approach better from a legal view, that the accused, his family & his witnesses have worked together with his legal team to present this view. However, I remain uncomfortable with the degree of denigration of the alleged murderer's victim in his defense. My opinion only.

And that strategy may piss off the jury as there is little if any substance to Allison being depressed.

 

[Timmy]

Sorry Timmy, I did see your question and meant to answer it. Thanks for reminding me. Firstly, and this been discussed before, if the accused admits guilt to their lawyers then those lawyers are limited in what they can present to the court. They can't suggest an alternate theory of say suicide or point the finger at someone else. However if the accused does not admit guilt then they are free to propose alternate possibilities just like in GBC case.

The second bail hearing was the first serious mention of depression. His lawyers raised it before Judge Applegarth and sought bail on the basis this possibility was a change in circumstances for GBC bail status. They were clear (I was in court) that it was the prosecutions evidence, namely the toxicology report that showed Allison had greatly increased levels of sertraline in her body. The judge did not like it one little bit and pointed out it was very unlikely she overdosed then walked 14 Kms to Kholo.
However for the purposes of the bail application he decided that this theory or suggestion by the defence did not change GBC's circumstances and refused bail.

Ever since then both for the committal and trial, both the defence legal teams have tried to present as much evidence on the depression/ suicide possibility as they could. This would have been the lawyers and GBC with his family all working on this together. And there is no problem with the lawyers doing that as clearly GBC has not admitted guilt to them.

Hope this answers your question.

Good morning Alioop. Thank you for taking the time to answer that. Hmmmm. Very interesting how it all works. It certainly makes sense in light of all the BCs testimonies. Certainly had that feeling of being well constructed. Would have been so interesting to be a fly on the wall as they went about building their case.... And seeing just what input each family member had.

 

[Timmy]

And that strategy may piss off the jury as there is little if any substance to Allison being depressed.

Absolutely..... From all testimonies of Drs... IMO... It seems like she suffered only from post-natal depression (as many women do) and a Generalised Anxiety Disorder (as many people do)..... And who wouldn't have anxiety in a marriage with the issues that theirs obviously had!

 

[Liadan]

Thanks so much Alioop - you are truly a gem for us unschooled in the intricacies law! At this stage I believe that GBC believes at least half of the lies he told. It would he his truth. He would have blanked out the rest much like forgetting a bad memory.

 

[Freya1977]

BLAGG CASE.
There's the *advertiser censored* problem again! It's the scourge of our society.
*advertiser censored* seems to creat a sexual problem and then men continually seek out the 'buzz'.
I watched the vid of Ted Bundy's last interview days before being executed and he said his problem started with *advertiser censored*, mild at first and then continued on until he murdered continually in search of the buzz.

I don't think *advertiser censored* is the scourge of our society. If it were almost all men and many women would be rapists and murderers.

I know the Bundy interview you mean, and the guy was nuts, as well as looking for anything to blame for his own actions.

 

[Tangled_Web]

Another case I have just been reading about (there is also a WS thread for Sandrine). How difficult for families and loved ones when there are so many unanswered questions, where public interest seems to be low, and where there does not seem to be recourse to the justice system. Thinking about Leanne Sleba and Novy Chardon too. Allison has perhaps helped bring some of these to light.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/sandrine-jourdan-missing-two-years-and-still-no-answers-20140712-zt5o9.html

 

[MsAnais]

I don't think *advertiser censored* is the scourge of our society. If it were almost all men and many women would be rapists and murderers.

I know the Bundy interview you mean, and the guy was nuts, as well as looking for anything to blame for his own actions.

I agree with you Freya. Ted Bundy remained in denial until the end - he was looking for an external locus of blame - and he suddenly found it in *advertiser censored*. I reckon he was actually taking the pi$$ in that interview. He was a master manipulator and would have been laughing inside IMO.

He definitely would have been addicted to *advertiser censored* (as so many men are - and most serial killers seem to be) but that's not what caused him to kill a certain 'type' - attractive brunettes with their hair parted in the middle. They all looked like his ex-girlfriend. But at root, with the serial killers, it all comes back to childhood and their mothers. Bundy stayed running with the BS line that he had a good childhood until his execution. Nothing that ever came out of his mouth was truth IMO, including *advertiser censored* being to blame!!

 

[JK673]

I don't think *advertiser censored* is the scourge of our society. If it were almost all men and many women would be rapists and murderers.

I know the Bundy interview you mean, and the guy was nuts, as well as looking for anything to blame for his own actions.

Actually Bundy stated very clearly that *advertiser censored* was NOT an excuse. He said like alcohol, some people can drink it with no problems and some people will not be able to get enough and hence become alcoholics..... He said that was what hasd happened to him. SOME people can view *advertiser censored* and leave it at that and some people form an addiction. He very clearly stated that it was NOT an excuse and that he took responsibilty for his actions. He was also, at that late stage, helping police with their enquiries into another 50 murders.

His concern though was that he had to look for *advertiser censored* as a young lad and now it is beamed into our homes via cable. I have to agree with him .....it is very worrying and there are many people who will react to *advertiser censored* like Bundy.....

 

[MsAnais]

Actually Bundy stated very clearly that *advertiser censored* was NOT an excuse. He said like alcohol, some people can drink it with no problems and some people will not be able to get enough and hence become alcoholics..... He said that was what hasd happened to him. SOME people can view *advertiser censored* and leave it at that and some people form an addiction. He very clearly stated that it was NOT an excuse and that he took responsibilty for his actions. He was also, at that late stage, helping police with their enquiries into another 50 murders.

His concern though was that he had to look for *advertiser censored* as a young lad and now it is beamed into our homes via cable. I have to agree with him .....it is very worrying and there are many people who will react to *advertiser censored* like Bundy.....

Well that's interesting JK673 - especially the bit about helping LE with their enquiries. Because I've read in numerous places that even up to his death he kept oscillating between denial of his crimes and then admissions and was not forthcoming in helping LE find other unknown victims that he had killed........so I wonder if he actually DID help LE or whether he just SAID he was helping?

Whatever the truth may be, I still wouldn't trust anything that came out of his mouth:facepalm: He is one chilling man - I find it impossible to sit through footage of him without getting serious chills and feeling sick!!:scared:

 

[JK673]

Well that's interesting JK673 - especially the bit about helping LE with their enquiries. Because I've read in numerous places that even up to his death he kept oscillating between denial of his crimes and then admissions and was not forthcoming in helping LE find other unknown victims that he had killed........so I wonder if he actually DID help LE or whether he just SAID he was helping?

Whatever the truth may be, I still wouldn't trust anything that came out of his mouth:facepalm: He is one chilling man - I find it impossible to sit through footage of him without getting serious chills and feeling sick!!:scared:

I taught about it and researched into it quite a bit. The video was undertaken and Bundy requested that all profits go into antipornograpy crusaders.

And he would only agree to pastor james dobson as he knew it would not be used in marketing purposes.

 

[MsAnais]

I taught about it and researched into it quite a bit. The video was undertaken and Bundy requested that all profits go into antipornograpy crusaders.

And he would only agree to pastor james dobson as he knew it would not be used in marketing purposes.

Well that is indeed interesting.

I still don't think *advertiser censored* 'made him do it' though. Way more complex than that IMO.:seeya:

PS he was probably trying to 'save his soul' at the eleventh hour before he died. His primary concern was always himself, as with all sociopaths......

 

[volunteer]

Now that things are quiet and we are all patiently waiting for THE VERDICT, I want to say that I am so glad I found Websleuths [accidently] about 18 months ago. I have been following but did not register until April this year because I did not think I could contribute any more than was being said by you great regular posters.

I have not followed any other cases, nor will be in the future. However, I was so shocked and saddened when this happened, because it happened HERE in this community where I have happily lived and felt safe for over 40 years. My blood runs cold when I realize he may have even passed our home on his way to Kolo Creek.

 

[volunteer]

I don't know what happened, but only half of my post appeared, so I will continue.

My heart goes out to Alison's family and friends. I did not know her but recognized her face as one I haveseen from time to time at Kenmore shops etc. I know GBC only from his regular column in the Bulletin magazine, often pontificating on how to prepare your home for open for inspections etc.[from photos of his own home, he did not heed his own advice!]

Thankyou all, especially those of you who have sat in the court room and let us all know what was happening - so much more information than we could read in the papers.

May justice prevail.

Like to share my favourite little prayer with you:


God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Sorry Timmy, I did see your question and meant to answer it. Thanks for reminding me. Firstly, and this been discussed before, if the accused admits guilt to their lawyers then those lawyers are limited in what they can present to the court. They can't suggest an alternate theory of say suicide or point the finger at someone else. However if the accused does not admit guilt then they are free to propose alternate possibilities just like in GBC case.

The second bail hearing was the first serious mention of depression. His lawyers raised it before Judge Applegarth and sought bail on the basis this possibility was a change in circumstances for GBC bail status. They were clear (I was in court) that it was the prosecutions evidence, namely the toxicology report that showed Allison had greatly increased levels of sertraline in her body. The judge did not like it one little bit and pointed out it was very unlikely she overdosed then walked 14 Kms to Kholo.
However for the purposes of the bail application he decided that this theory or suggestion by the defence did not change GBC's circumstances and refused bail.

Ever since then both for the committal and trial, both the defence legal teams have tried to present as much evidence on the depression/ suicide possibility as they could. This would have been the lawyers and GBC with his family all working on this together. And there is no problem with the lawyers doing that as clearly GBC has not admitted guilt to them.

Hope this answers your question.

And my understanding of the legal defence (extremely limited!) is that they do not need to prove Allison committed suicide, they only need to create the possibility so as to cause "reasonable doubt" that GBC killed her. And as a lay-person watching the trial from afar - I don't think they've done this at all. No evidence supports suicide - in fact it is preposterous to suggest she somehow did this, walking 14kms, and got her jumper all entangled around her head and arms. They had nothing else to work with - a random stranger murder would be even more preposterous.

I can only hope that the system of 12 jurors works as it should - I see no way that ALL 12 jurors can comfortably believe he is Not Guilty to give this as a unanimous verdict.

I think this is the only trial I've ever properly followed day-by-day and I feel quite anxious about the result!

 

[Tigerlily75]

I don't know what happened, but only half of my post appeared, so I will continue.

My heart goes out to Alison's family and friends. I did not know her but recognized her face as one I haveseen from time to time at Kenmore shops etc. I know GBC only from his regular column in the Bulletin magazine, often pontificating on how to prepare your home for open for inspections etc.[from photos of his own home, he did not heed his own advice!]

Thankyou all, especially those of you who have sat in the court room and let us all know what was happening - so much more information than we could read in the papers.

May justice prevail.

Like to share my favourite little prayer with you:


God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

I only saw the photos of the inside of their house in the last couple of days, and I have to say I was a bit shocked. A prestigious REAL ESTATE agent, in a wealthy neighbourhood, who drove a Lexus and at one time brought home $5000 a week (not to mention lots of "missing money" from the business according to ex-business partners), and they can't buy a new dining suite?! Everything is old, mismatched and frankly a bit depressing. I'm not meaning to sound like a snob (I'm not wealthy!) but it really surprised me! You don't even need a lot money to brighten up your home and make it look nice. I guess I'd had an image in my head of what the "sterile" home might have looked like.

I was also surprised they were renting - again, all in the context of him being a "prestigious" real estate agent. (I'm a renter who shops at IKEA, haha)

 

[Freya1977]

Actually Bundy stated very clearly that *advertiser censored* was NOT an excuse. He said like alcohol, some people can drink it with no problems and some people will not be able to get enough and hence become alcoholics..... He said that was what hasd happened to him. SOME people can view *advertiser censored* and leave it at that and some people form an addiction. He very clearly stated that it was NOT an excuse and that he took responsibilty for his actions. He was also, at that late stage, helping police with their enquiries into another 50 murders.

His concern though was that he had to look for *advertiser censored* as a young lad and now it is beamed into our homes via cable. I have to agree with him .....it is very worrying and there are many people who will react to *advertiser censored* like Bundy.....

Yes he does say that, but I still feel he's blaming it. He would have murdered women without the existence of *advertiser censored*, that's what I believe anyway.

 

[volunteer]

I only saw the photos of the inside of their house in the last couple of days, and I have to say I was a bit shocked. A prestigious REAL ESTATE agent, in a wealthy neighbourhood, who drove a Lexus and at one time brought home $5000 a week (not to mention lots of "missing money" from the business according to ex-business partners), and they can't buy a new dining suite?! Everything is old, mismatched and frankly a bit depressing. I'm not meaning to sound like a snob (I'm not wealthy!) but it really surprised me! You don't even need a lot money to brighten up your home and make it look nice. I guess I'd had an image in my head of what the "sterile" home might have looked like.

I was also surprised they were renting - again, all in the context of him being a "prestigious" real estate agent. (I'm a renter who shops at IKEA, haha)

I agree! Alison's mum said in her evidence that she was disappointed that Alison and Gerard had not bought their own home. I believe the senior BCs are renting as well - so perhaps like father, like son.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I once picked up a book from the free library at work for nightshift reading on Ted Bundy, written by his friend - Ann Rule? Anyway, I got about 30 or so pages in - couldn't do it. I can read/watch crime stories, but he was beyond sick. How are "humans" like this created?! I can't even fathom how someone turns out like that.

 

[Freya1977]

I once picked up a book from the free library at work for nightshift reading on Ted Bundy, written by his friend - Ann Rule? Anyway, I got about 30 or so pages in - couldn't do it. I can read/watch crime stories, but he was beyond sick. How are "humans" like this created?! I can't even fathom how someone turns out like that.

I think people like him are born that way....