Who is GBC? An armchair psych discussion

I can't believe how many of us here have the same ex. I have a 15 year old daughter with mine. He presents very well to the world, but we had to get an intervention order and she hasn't seen him in more than a year. Only recently she has some text message contact, and is very well aware of NPD thanks to an excellent psychologist who knows all about it. And yep - total indulged Mummy's boy, and anyone who disagrees with them is "jealous".

I see him in GBC, in Oscar Pistorious, in Simon Gittany. Their families too.

The life long effects after dealing with a narcissist/sociopath should never be underestimated. Poor Allison had no clue what she was dealing with, as most of us don't, and for a very long time thought it was her fault, as most of us do. It's heartbreaking.

They need to teach this stuff in high school.

I'm in counselling and I take part in a support group for survivors of narcissists, and THAT is the biggest shock of all - we're all describing the same person, it's like they all attend the same acting class and learn the same script.

I'm really glad to hear that your daughter is aware of his disorder, sadly many children of 'them' don't understand the disorder, and continually get hoovered by their N parent.

My heart breaks for Allison, her daughters and her friends and family, with everything coming out about his dark side it must be very painful for them.

My 2 sons are now aware of how to spot a disordered one, and it should be something,I believe, that should be taught in personal development classes along with sex and drug education.
 
Thanks all for your interesting insights here. I'm a bit late getting back to the discussion so I'll toss in a few random points that have occurred to me rather than replying to any one post in particular.

Re narcissist vs sociopath/psychopath. Narcissism is a symptom of both Antisocial personality disorder(psychopath/sociopath) and NPD (obviously). The main difference between the two is that narcissists *care what people think of them*. Both are manipulative, personally exploitative, lacking in empathy, compulsive liars and see others as objects to be used, but narcissists *need* other people to see them as being fabulous; psychopaths don't care what people think of them, as long as they can *get what they want* from them. If you want to get Freudian - narcissists are all about ego; psychopaths are all about id (base desires).

Which makes our G such a classic textbook NPD, with his whole need to portray himself as the big man about town. I was interested to see that even his brief profile on one of those dating sites betrayed his rampant narcissism: in the profile sections on "smoking/drinking" he posted (words to the effect of) "I do not smoke" "I do not drink" - he even had to insert an "I" into a simple yes/no answer, lol.

Something else that has come up in the discussion over whether he wanted to dump Allison to be with TM or vice versa - the answer I'd suggest is neither. Two things:
(1) a narcissist's whole raison d'etre is securing sources of narcissistic supply (other people, aka victims, who look up to the narcissist, reassure him that he's awesome, and *have emotional reactions to his behaviour*, thereby supplying the emotional stimulus he lacks. They never have just one - you need a backup in case the first one comes to her senses and runs off. Three or four is better.
(2) having two (or more) lovers fighting over him is the narcissist's ideal - what an ego trip! Losing one or the other is a massive loss to the narc (literally a "narcissistic wound"). Even if he views both of them as stupid, inferior, annoying women, he also needs them, much more than they need him, because without them he is literally nothing - his whole (false) ego is constructed upon the feedback from other people.

Re the BC family - narcissists collect victims. Victims tend to be kind, generous, giving, non-critical individuals, or other personality disorders like histrionic PD (drama queens) or borderline PD (low self-esteem, poor boundaries), that match particularly well with Narcs. So in a narcissistic family you'll have a fairly even breakup between narcissists and trained victims - they're not all bad, they're just conditioned by a lifetime of systematic abuse. (and on that topic my guess is NBC - NPD; EBC - histrionic, OW - borderline, other son "relatively normal guy who escaped as soon as he could but tending towards low self-esteem/borderline").

Thank you very much and I completely agree with your views.
 
I am so using this experience to teach my kids. In fact, my daughter just deciding to study psych/social work!

A family lost a beautiful daughter and loving mother because of a disordered one, and it is somehow very appropriate to educate our children about these individuals, I believe, that none of us should let Allisons suffering and death be in vain.
 
Thanks all for your interesting insights here. I'm a bit late getting back to the discussion so I'll toss in a few random points that have occurred to me rather than replying to any one post in particular.

Re narcissist vs sociopath/psychopath. Narcissism is a symptom of both Antisocial personality disorder(psychopath/sociopath) and NPD (obviously). The main difference between the two is that narcissists *care what people think of them*. Both are manipulative, personally exploitative, lacking in empathy, compulsive liars and see others as objects to be used, but narcissists *need* other people to see them as being fabulous; psychopaths don't care what people think of them, as long as they can *get what they want* from them. If you want to get Freudian - narcissists are all about ego; psychopaths are all about id (base desires).

Which makes our G such a classic textbook NPD, with his whole need to portray himself as the big man about town. I was interested to see that even his brief profile on one of those dating sites betrayed his rampant narcissism: in the profile sections on "smoking/drinking" he posted (words to the effect of) "I do not smoke" "I do not drink" - he even had to insert an "I" into a simple yes/no answer, lol.

Something else that has come up in the discussion over whether he wanted to dump Allison to be with TM or vice versa - the answer I'd suggest is neither. Two things:
(1) a narcissist's whole raison d'etre is securing sources of narcissistic supply (other people, aka victims, who look up to the narcissist, reassure him that he's awesome, and *have emotional reactions to his behaviour*, thereby supplying the emotional stimulus he lacks. They never have just one - you need a backup in case the first one comes to her senses and runs off. Three or four is better.
(2) having two (or more) lovers fighting over him is the narcissist's ideal - what an ego trip! Losing one or the other is a massive loss to the narc (literally a "narcissistic wound"). Even if he views both of them as stupid, inferior, annoying women, he also needs them, much more than they need him, because without them he is literally nothing - his whole (false) ego is constructed upon the feedback from other people.

Re the BC family - narcissists collect victims. Victims tend to be kind, generous, giving, non-critical individuals, or other personality disorders like histrionic PD (drama queens) or borderline PD (low self-esteem, poor boundaries), that match particularly well with Narcs. So in a narcissistic family you'll have a fairly even breakup between narcissists and trained victims - they're not all bad, they're just conditioned by a lifetime of systematic abuse. (and on that topic my guess is NBC - NPD; EBC - histrionic, OW - borderline, other son "relatively normal guy who escaped as soon as he could but tending towards low self-esteem/borderline").

Wow - just wow, great post !
 
Hmmmm..... I've posted about 3 replies in a row - I feel like an attention *advertiser censored* ;/
 
so Onionsgalore, in a nut shell, what is it we teach them to look out for? Kids go through relationships with jealousy, controlling, etc. and hopefully learn from each experience, but how do we spot the danger?
 
I'm in counselling and I take part in a support group for survivors of narcissists, and THAT is the biggest shock of all - we're all describing the same person, it's like they all attend the same acting class and learn the same script.

I'm really glad to hear that your daughter is aware of his disorder, sadly many children of 'them' don't understand the disorder, and continually get hoovered by their N parent.

My heart breaks for Allison, her daughters and her friends and family, with everything coming out about his dark side it must be very painful for them.

My 2 sons are now aware of how to spot a disordered one, and it should be something,I believe, that should be taught in personal development classes along with sex and drug education.

Yep. That's awesome that your sons are already aware.

As I've mentioned previously, I once had a brief personal experience with a psychopath, just before I did the relevant uni lectures on the topic (and went "ok so *that's* what he was") and I'm eternally grateful for that experience, because it's probably saved my life and sanity so many times.

That's one of the things that's drawn me to this case, and something that I hope people learn from it, and that can be Allison's legacy, in a way.

If someone lies to others; they'll lie to you.

If someone treats others badly, they'll do the same to you.

If someone seems too good to be true, they probably are.
 
so Onionsgalore, in a nut shell, what is it we teach them to look out for? Kids go through relationships with jealousy, controlling, etc. and hopefully learn from each experience, but how do we spot the danger?

There are red flags.

* telling a sob story very ( too) early
* moving fast. They'll be claiming that the intended victim is unique/special/soul mate within days of meeting them
* valuing/devaluing behaviour. Building the victim up, then kicking the stool out from under them
* saying all their exes are crazy
* not allowing the victim access to friends/family without their presence
* triangulation. Trying to make the victim feel like they could lose them, due to interest from someone else.

That old chestnut 'if it seems to be good to be true...."
 
Yep. That's awesome that your sons are already aware.

As I've mentioned previously, I once had a brief personal experience with a psychopath, just before I did the relevant uni lectures on the topic (and went "ok so *that's* what he was") and I'm eternally grateful for that experience, because it's probably saved my life and sanity so many times.

That's one of the things that's drawn me to this case, and something that I hope people learn from it, and that can be Allison's legacy, in a way.

If someone lies to others; they'll lie to you.

If someone treats others badly, they'll do the same to you.

If someone seems too good to be true, they probably are.

That final sentence is the nutshell of how to pick them.

Yes, funnily I'm grateful for the experience, because it taught me about myself and where I need to tighten up my boundaries, and gave me the opportunity to pass on valuable lessons to my sons.
 
Hi all,

With Kimsters permission I post the link to my Jury Room thread which is where you'll find my thread about Getting Together.

On this thread please read Kimsters notes and warnings about getting together and foregoing anonymity. It's a personal decision that needs to be considered carefully.

Here is the link http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?250131-Allison-Baden-Clay-Get-Together&p=10755568&posted=1#post10755568

We can't discuss getting together on this thread so don't respond here just go to the link.
 
There are a few things that I've wondered about with GBC.
- he speaks in an odd way. Maybe he is trying to sound posh? But in the recordings and interviews I've heard he sounds creepy, with a whispering, strange "accent" and very effeminate.
- he seems to be smiling in those scratched face evidence photos and that is seems very strange in the circumstances
 
:grouphug: to every single person here! It has been such a relief for me to post about my ex and The Fam and just I guess hear that y'all other smart people (and alien! Haha) say "I've been there, too."
 
There are a few things that I've wondered about with GBC.
- he speaks in an odd way. Maybe he is trying to sound posh? But in the recordings and interviews I've heard he sounds creepy, with a whispering, strange "accent" and very effeminate.
- he seems to be smiling in those scratched face evidence photos and that is seems very strange in the circumstances

Couldn't agree more Bazinga. I'm sure some of his old school mates will come out with their take on his personality back in the day. I would also not be surprised if some of those swingers (of both sexes) from the "adult" site he was a member of sign up for a media pay cheque as well. Nothing surprises me anymore.
 
http://psychcentral.com/personality/

"Most people can relate to some or all of the personality traits listed; the difference is that it does not affect most people's daily functioning to the same degree it might someone diagnosed with one of these disorders. Personality disorders tend to be an intergral part of a person, and therefore, are difficult to treat or "cure".

That was my question too- when does it become a disorder as opposed to a personality trait? As we all probably have elements of the disorders listed on previous page... There seems to be so many listed personality disorders, that I would think most people could identify to some degree with at least one of them- but then isn't this just part of our personality? And when is it considerd a disorder? Very interesting.
 
There are a few things that I've wondered about with GBC.
- he speaks in an odd way. Maybe he is trying to sound posh? But in the recordings and interviews I've heard he sounds creepy, with a whispering, strange "accent" and very effeminate.
- he seems to be smiling in those scratched face evidence photos and that is seems very strange in the circumstances

I have at times thought he also sounded a bit effeminate. I think a bit of it was a put on though- to make himself sound innocent(?)
Regarding the accent, Gerard only moved to Australia at age 10 with his family(think he was born in UK, but lived most of early years in Zimbawe)- perhaps there is some residual accent there?

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/wife-killer-is-great-grandson-of-scouts-founder-badenpowell/story-fnii5s3x-1226990711076
 
Thanks all for your interesting insights here. I'm a bit late getting back to the discussion so I'll toss in a few random points that have occurred to me rather than replying to any one post in particular.

Re narcissist vs sociopath/psychopath. Narcissism is a symptom of both Antisocial personality disorder(psychopath/sociopath) and NPD (obviously). The main difference between the two is that narcissists *care what people think of them*. Both are manipulative, personally exploitative, lacking in empathy, compulsive liars and see others as objects to be used, but narcissists *need* other people to see them as being fabulous; psychopaths don't care what people think of them, as long as they can *get what they want* from them. If you want to get Freudian - narcissists are all about ego; psychopaths are all about id (base desires).

Which makes our G such a classic textbook NPD, with his whole need to portray himself as the big man about town. I was interested to see that even his brief profile on one of those dating sites betrayed his rampant narcissism: in the profile sections on "smoking/drinking" he posted (words to the effect of) "I do not smoke" "I do not drink" - he even had to insert an "I" into a simple yes/no answer, lol.

Something else that has come up in the discussion over whether he wanted to dump Allison to be with TM or vice versa - the answer I'd suggest is neither. Two things:
(1) a narcissist's whole raison d'etre is securing sources of narcissistic supply (other people, aka victims, who look up to the narcissist, reassure him that he's awesome, and *have emotional reactions to his behaviour*, thereby supplying the emotional stimulus he lacks. They never have just one - you need a backup in case the first one comes to her senses and runs off. Three or four is better.
(2) having two (or more) lovers fighting over him is the narcissist's ideal - what an ego trip! Losing one or the other is a massive loss to the narc (literally a "narcissistic wound"). Even if he views both of them as stupid, inferior, annoying women, he also needs them, much more than they need him, because without them he is literally nothing - his whole (false) ego is constructed upon the feedback from other people.

Re the BC family - narcissists collect victims. Victims tend to be kind, generous, giving, non-critical individuals, or other personality disorders like histrionic PD (drama queens) or borderline PD (low self-esteem, poor boundaries), that match particularly well with Narcs. So in a narcissistic family you'll have a fairly even breakup between narcissists and trained victims - they're not all bad, they're just conditioned by a lifetime of systematic abuse. (and on that topic my guess is NBC - NPD; EBC - histrionic, OW - borderline, other son "relatively normal guy who escaped as soon as he could but tending towards low self-esteem/borderline").
I researched NPD because I work with one and a mate's wife was one. I said GBC was classic NPD ages ago......feeling really sorry for Allison.....:-(
 
There are a few things that I've wondered about with GBC.
- he speaks in an odd way. Maybe he is trying to sound posh? But in the recordings and interviews I've heard he sounds creepy, with a whispering, strange "accent" and very effeminate.
- he seems to be smiling in those scratched face evidence photos and that is seems very strange in the circumstances

So well said thankyou. Been wanting to comment on his voice
He does sound creepy and feminine. Erk shudder
 
I've just woken to catch up and find the posts on this thread intuitive, thoughtful, helpful and revealing.

Much catching up to do - I'm probably about to comment in no original way - sorry 'bout that.

I think GBC thought using this voice would 'endear' people.

I suspect he leaned on so many tools he thought would 'appeal' to people.

If he heard a well received joke said by someone else he'd add that joke to his repertoire.

He'd repeat conversations others naturally had with one another once he was in a different setting.

It's as though (due to parenting?) people like Gerweird are incapable of being natural in their relationships and need to BORROW how to speak and behave like a decent/normal human because they're incapable of just naturally interacting without failing.

I think GBC was encouraged by his parents and naturally gravitated to math/accounting/business especially drawn to making money (not keeping or saving or using it ethically).

Money isn't interactive like people (GBC wasn't drawn to social sciences or humanities, nor encouraged by his parents in those areas)

Money acts as a tremendous disguise : it suggests and delivers the perception of power, status and success.

Money is one dimensional. People are not. People are complex and complicated.

I've no doubt GBC made certain he drew others attention to any 'good act' he suffered through : community involvement, making donations?, etc.

You'd think we should have pity with anyone who isn't capable of innately/naturally interacting/relating to others but personally I struggle to.

Allison tried everything to reach out and connect with GBC. Such a gifted, intelligent, loving and talented woman failed in every effort to get her husband to love and respect and be kind to her : because he's incapable of it : it's not her failing : it's his.
 
Champagnelulu

Are you suggesting GBC didn't cause Allison's death?

Maybe not. In any case I'm going to use your post as an opportunity to vent/reveal my worst thoughts and feelings about what I think might have happened to Allison.

Did GBC protect Allison that night?

No one knows what happened, not WS's, not the judge or jury.

Allison died and GBC - where was he? Cherishing her in bed? Cherishing her in life?

15 years for what he might have done or did do.

He needs 15years rehabilitation either way.

Three little girls need love, safety, security and the attention of those like Allison who are genuinely willing to turn themselves inside out to provide them that.

GBC is not up to the task of : loving, respecting, protecting and dedicating himself to the humans he created and is responsible for.

15 years for him to reflect, admit, apologise, amend : Best intervention over 15 years won't achieve it.

There's no law against people who recklessly live their lives with his gross preferences and gross sense of entitlement.

In the absence of such laws and in the absence of any possibility a 'hit man' that GBC paid killed Allison - May every split second of 'his' next 15 years be spent being EXCLUDED.

I'm dark/angry now : but may he please be ignored and unwanted, disrespected and rejected by every other male of his calibre or worse in prison.

Justice is a hard task master. GBC has not even felt justice yet in my opinion.

So far he's been on holiday camp avoiding his parental and financial responsibilities WITH FREE BOARD.

Arrrghh.
 
Just reading this morning's news online.

KIMSTAR

Can we please have a new thread : 'Who is TM? An Armchair Psych Discussion'
 

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