IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

Johnny's case has always bothered me because I grew up in Iowa and it became the quintessential "warning" against wandering around by yourself or talking to strangers.

I know there are several theories out there about what happened to him and I do feel terribly for his mother. However, Johnny was one of THREE young boys to missing from Des Moines (Eugene and Mark being the other two) within a pretty short time frame. I tend to believe that all three were taken by the same person and it was NOT some working for a pedophile ring, but rather just a sole sick, twisted individual. All three boys were probably murdered shortly after they were taken and obviously the bodies were disposed of pretty thoroughly. I do NOT think Johnny visited his mother all those years later, though she may certainly believe it was him.

All that said, this is one case I wish I could know the "answer" to.

Weren't they all paper boys as well, on their route to deliver the morning paper? It definitely sounds like a sick individual found opportunity in these young boys out early in the morning while the town still slept. It was the perfect opportunity for this sick person who took these boys. I believe all three are connected, it's hard to ignore the coincidences.
 
Weren't they all paper boys as well, on their route to deliver the morning paper? It definitely sounds like a sick individual found opportunity in these young boys out early in the morning while the town still slept. It was the perfect opportunity for this sick person who took these boys. I believe all three are connected, it's hard to ignore the coincidences.


Yes they were all paper boys however Johnny and Eugene went missing on the Sunday morning routes while Marc went missing I believe while walking to a friends house.
 
Alright folks! Here we go ;)

Disclaimer: I am not saying any of this to upset anyone. I am not saying any of this to claim I know more than anyone else, I am simply putting reality into the case because it looks like reality checked out long ago.

And yes I'm familiar with everything surrounding it.

Here's my theories:

Johnny was picked up by the same person(s) that also kidnapped Eugene. He was most likely murdered soon after.

Johnny was possibly harmed by his father or someone associated with his father, like the Mistress. It pains me to say that and I'm not stating it because the dad is aloof or out of the press at this point, I'm saying it because of somethings that leads up to Johnny missing.

Before Johnny went missing, his father had been carrying on an affair with another woman. This explains a lot of the phone calls that were abrupt no talk/hang-up's that Johnny's mother had encountered. This is long before cell phones, so a Mistress calling a home isn't something unheard of.

The morning that Johnny went missing (and can I just take this second to mention how I hate calling him Johnny when whether alive or deceased he'd likely go by John) someone called for about 30 seconds and had a conversation with someone.

Johnny's father didn't go on the route with him but later left the home and discovered the bag. I have often thought that either:

A) Johnny's father had taken the call in the AM and snuck out to meet his Mistress.
B) Johnny's father knew someone was going to take his son, thus providing a means to exit the relationship.
C) It is all just one huge coincidence.
D) The Mistress phoned at X o'clock to see if John's father was going on the route with him to confirm if she could see him or not.
E) A person who ran that route was calling to see if Johnny was coming on time or could be there earlier.

I believe Johnny's mother lives in a huge denial about the length of time her husband was unhappy and was seeing someone else.

While Johnny was missing, The father and the Mistress (who posed as his wife) went into banks together. This to me is a huge red flag that's often over looked. Why did she need to pose as her?

Could a man be so desperate to exit his relationship he decided to get rid of his son (why not the other kids though?). Or could the mistress be so jealous of the son she did this (Shades of Kyron). Or did it just all happen to be around the same time someone was out there snatching boys like Eugene who also hasn't been found but likely also murdered.

I do not think that Johnny visited his mother in the 90's. I do believe however someone did and that someone is an individual that she still has contact with, speaks to and possibly was sending money to. I have suspected this Paul character from the start as being the person and that is why she went to the prison to see him to "get answers". I think in her fragile mind she's willing to believe anything.

Regarding the man who worked as a white house journalist etc; I don't blame him for not giving up DNA. I want to make a huge huge statement about that. Giving someone your DNA is risking behavior. If a woman who seems totally unhinged is hounding you for your DNA profile, would you give it to her? Would you trust that she wouldn't plant it on something and then state he's part of this ficticious pedophile ring? I wouldn't trust her! It's also very likely he committed a crime that would put him in prison for a very long time and because he has no record that has his DNA on file, giving his DNA to people who are working with the FBI could evolve into this man getting charges brought up against him for any # of crimes.

I have a feeling he commits identity theft and break-in's (in the past) along with credit card theft. Just a hunch. I'm sure he wants to keep escaping jail time; so no - I dont' find it odd that he won't come off his DNA to a bunch of people believing in insane things.

Regarding the mother:
I go between feeling sorry for her and wondering if she's suffered a nervous break-down and has since that time just been on auto-pilot. I do believe a man visited her, I do think it is Paul. I do think she's been sending him money and I do believe she's been conned.

Regarding the pedophile ring and human auctions:
*YES I read the Franklin stories, and frankly nothing shocks me because I work in the sex industry (sorry that I feel like I always have to state that but sometimes people aren't familiar with me and don't know why I come up with these ideas/conclusions). Politicians, mostly Republican .. have very deep seeded fetishes. At least in my experience. I'm so liberal I'm off the grid so it's nothing political to me, green is green and I don't care where it comes from when they give it to me.

Anyway; there are pedophile rings. Sadly we are all so very aware this exists. Children in group homes are at twice the risk as kids at home who are also at risk. Children on the streets are triple the risk and children who are transgendered or queer are off the charts at risk due to stigma and hate at home and from society.

But the kids who are considered "throw-away" in our culture are who these rings pick. The reason for that is because no one notices that they are gone. No one is looking for them and those kids just want acceptance. Sex isn't special and it's not loving, it's a means of survival. Once a person is victimized over and over and over, they learn to separate from their physical selves and let their body become used, so it's quickly over with and they can just go on about their day. Sex is a utility and from a young age they learn to not fight back because it just makes it hurt more.

Another thing too, these kids that grow up in homes where incest is generational see it as "acceptance" and normality. That being touched, kissed or had sex with is the way ALL adults show someone they care about them. If it's all you know, you wouldn't think to report it. Once you figure it out it's too much emotionally to handle and you turn to drugs and running off. Those parents won't report the kid because they are too afraid to go to jail and then the kids end up on the streets and if they are lucky, foster care.

Taking a male off the streets and throwing him into a pedophilia ring *when there's ample throw -away kids* makes little to no sense. It does happen that kids are taken but usually it's for 1 sicko to use not a ring.

And this Satanic panic stuff just makes my eyes roll into the back of my head. Look, I'm not here to scare people or create a stir. I know that my line of work *never mind the fact I am a nurse and a mother that works in outreach programs!* and the fact that yes, I am a Satanist *card carrying member* as well as Jewish, makes me look like a spooky person. Truly I am not and Satanism in it's true form is just Atheism. I am in the Lavey church (so the true church of Satanism). It's not "Devil worship", we don't believe in a devil. We don't sacrifice and we even have rules! One of those rules is not to harm children and not to harm animals:

I really urge people to read the rules *no demon will enter your soul, I assure you*

http://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth.php

But in case you're too freaked out to click the link, here are the rules:

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

Do not harm little children.

Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Now with that out of the way, let's talk about this so called "rocking X".

I believe the FBI did state there is such a thing as the rocking X brand, however when I google I get conspiracy theories and my gosh there's a ton! I can't comment much on that but in all my years of living my lifestyle *and I started out on the streets very underage and with a pimp before I discovered freedom and being a dominatrix*; I have never once met a person who was branded in this fashion. I have met thousands of young people who have had their pimps' name on their chest though, that's beyond common. Hell, I've met girls who've been traded so many times they have nothing but names on them! Not that it's funny but that's the way it goes.

I could totally see "branding" *with heat not tattoos* being out there and used. I mean, why wouldn't it be? But the problem I see with doing that to these kids is that it's living proof that they were used for sexual exploitation in child *advertiser censored*. Why would these sophisticated high level people risk their business? I know that sex is an addiction and pedophilia is truly a mental disease and sexual preference. There's the age old argument on whether or not it's a chosen sexual preference or something a person is born with (just like some people are born hetero and someone people are born homosexual). I really feel people are born being pedophiles, which is why even liquid castration and therapy doesn't work. you can't fix that. There's no reforming that will work, unless of course it's a teen acting on a child and that teen was sexually abused etc etc. So given that pedophilia is a sexual orientation, the predators will lose interest in these boys once they age out of what the predators enjoy.

Then what happens? It seems like the mother is stating that Johnny was released *kinda* because he aged out but he had to live in hiding. Why would he need to be in hiding if they released him? If they didn't trust him they would have killed him or kept him there to recruit others.

Childhood auctions do happen. I don't have any useful information on that which concerns the US.

I often wonder if Johnny's mother knows she was taken for a big ole con artist ride and at this point she's too afraid to say the truth or feels stupid so she continues on with it.

I don't think he's alive and I think where ever his body is, Eugene's body is near by.

Regarding the photos: I know the photo of the 3 boys on the bed was debunked but looking at it you can't help but realize that some pervert most likely convinced these boys to get tied up for their *escape contest* and said pervert photographed it.

The other photographs and the images that were on the website which "Jimmy" came from; those are obviously bondage child *advertiser censored*. I used the way back machine to view what people were speaking of. They were ranging from kids tied up and obviously drugged or scared, in someone's home/camper etc to even photos of kids playing on the beach and some creeper was taking photos at a distance. These were all "hunting" type shots.

The bondage photos looked like they could be Russian in origin (on the website), including the one that Johnny's mother is convinced is of him with the branding.

I do not think it's him. I think she thinks any photo that kinda looks like him, is him. My thing is, why aren't there photos appearing of Johnny through out the years then? Why only right when he went missing? I think it's because in her mind she knows he's deceased and he quit aging at 12. Does that make any sense?

The amount of quacks in her ears about Satanic cults, ritualistic abuse.. pedophile branding in the US - is just ALL TOO MUCH!.

I have a family case here of a missing great uncle, he worked on the Manhattan project (MK ultra spawned from this) and the Abomb, He's literally missing and obviously deceased. My family is full of FBI employee's and those that work in special forces. I can talk about some things and stuff like Johnny's case is one of them. I'm telling you all, there is no merit in any of this current MK ultra stuff, this supposed ritualistic stuff.. none of it. I won't take over the thread in why I think that or what was shared with me by my family but to make it short:

They have plenty of willing participants to be study objects, all subjects are in the military and the place this all goes on is in VA. (verifiable through wikipedia/google). Why would they pluck starlets and kids?

And back to lil' lies the parents of Johnny told, or things withheld:
Johnny supposedly visiting and no one knowing till his mother testified on the behalf of someone to win a lawsuit.

Johnny's father having his Mistress pose as Johnny's mother in the bank and elsewhere.

Johnny's mother receiving these images and not telling the fbi or police until her people etc etc knew. And at that point it was discovered that the story she gave on when she received them wasn't true either.

I could add so much but it's easier if people just ask my opinion on 1 thing and I answer it lol, if anyone cares that much.
Some wild theories, I suppose anything is possible, however I don't believe his father had anything to do with it.
 
Regarding the man who worked as a white house journalist etc; I don't blame him for not giving up DNA. I want to make a huge huge statement about that. Giving someone your DNA is risking behavior. If a woman who seems totally unhinged is hounding you for your DNA profile, would you give it to her? Would you trust that she wouldn't plant it on something and then state he's part of this ficticious pedophile ring? I wouldn't trust her! It's also very likely he committed a crime that would put him in prison for a very long time and because he has no record that has his DNA on file, giving his DNA to people who are working with the FBI could evolve into this man getting charges brought up against him for any # of crimes.

I have a feeling he commits identity theft and break-in's (in the past) along with credit card theft. Just a hunch. I'm sure he wants to keep escaping jail time; so no - I dont' find it odd that he won't come off his DNA to a bunch of people believing in insane things.

Jeff Gannon was a mid-level and well-respected prostitute in DC. I hadn't assumed he refused to give a DNA sample because of (non-sex work related) crimes, but because there's no telling what crazy people could accuse him of.

He's already linked to the Franklin scandal for some no doubt stupid reason as it is. I think the last the man needs is for people to accuse him of running a pedophile ring once they discover he isn't Johnny Gosch.

And for what it's worth, he's under no obligation to hand over a DNA sample to anyone unless court ordered. I surely wouldn't. Especially to people who already believe reptilians/senators/earthquakes/Satanists/local cops/FBI/Illuminati are part of a grand conspiracy to kidnap children when there are sadly plenty of them out there to be had.
 
I think he is JG and he is afraid someone will kill him or his family if it is determined he is him. He could tell the FBI who kidnapped him and why. He can also tell others why he received white house clearance. This could incite anti governmental riots. I believe Gannon/Gosch holds a lot of high level secrets where a lot of people and organizations could be in big trouble. He's scared. I wish he would give a DNA sample and get it over with. The truth is better than a lie even when the truth hurts a lot of people.
 
I think he is JG and he is afraid someone will kill him or his family if it is determined he is him. He could tell the FBI who kidnapped him and why. He can also tell others why he received white house clearance. This could incite anti governmental riots. I believe Gannon/Gosch holds a lot of high level secrets where a lot of people and organizations could be in big trouble. He's scared. I wish he would give a DNA sample and get it over with. The truth is better than a lie even when the truth hurts a lot of people.
I am not sure, respectfully, how much I agree with all you said but I do agree that DNA wouldn't be a bad thing at all...to put rumors to rest. I think AstroKitty hit on the head why he won't though. I personally don't think he is JG....but it would put things to rest. He isnt under obligation though and I can also see other poster's points on other reasons why he wouldn't.
 
I am not sure, respectfully, how much I agree with all you said but I do agree that DNA wouldn't be a bad thing at all...to put rumors to rest. I think AstroKitty hit on the head why he won't though. I personally don't think he is JG....but it would put things to rest. He isnt under obligation though and I can also see other poster's points on other reasons why he wouldn't.

DNA could be easily gotten from a glass he drinks from or other easy means by all of the people that Noreen has access to.

If this guy has so much info people are afraid he would reveal, it would be a simple matter for him to have a terrible "accident" or simply just "disappear" one day.

Thinking someone will keep their mouth closed is truly naive and I doubt if he has such information that he would be allowed to live. Why?
 
I think he is JG and he is afraid someone will kill him or his family if it is determined he is him. He could tell the FBI who kidnapped him and why. He can also tell others why he received white house clearance. This could incite anti governmental riots. I believe Gannon/Gosch holds a lot of high level secrets where a lot of people and organizations could be in big trouble. He's scared. I wish he would give a DNA sample and get it over with. The truth is better than a lie even when the truth hurts a lot of people.

I agree, Even though the Jeff Gannon thing sounds ludicrous to some people, it's still a possibility.

lARfq2z.jpg
 
I agree, Even though the Jeff Gannon thing sounds ludicrous to some people, it's still a possibility.

lARfq2z.jpg

So why not get his DNA via a drinking glass? Easy easy easy.

And if he has so much info, why is he not dead? So easy to have an accident
 
A lot of twists and turns related to this case. I know the story and about the other kids in the area. Also the possibility that he visited his mom. You would think it be safe to come out if the shadows after all this time if he is still alive.
 
Johnny's case has always bothered me because I grew up in Iowa and it became the quintessential "warning" against wandering around by yourself or talking to strangers.

I know there are several theories out there about what happened to him and I do feel terribly for his mother. However, Johnny was one of THREE young boys to missing from Des Moines (Eugene and Mark being the other two) within a pretty short time frame. I tend to believe that all three were taken by the same person and it was NOT some working for a pedophile ring, but rather just a sole sick, twisted individual. All three boys were probably murdered shortly after they were taken and obviously the bodies were disposed of pretty thoroughly. I do NOT think Johnny visited his mother all those years later, though she may certainly believe it was him.

All that said, this is one case I wish I could know the "answer" to.

If the person who visited Mrs. Gosch wasn't Johnny, who was he? Could he have been an informant who broke away from the "bad ring" that Johnny could have belonged to, in order to warn Johnny's Mother of her son's remaining danger even after all these years? Since so much time has passed, and there are so many different theories, we may never know for sure what really happened to Johnny. I agree with the above poster that it is more likely that he was killed shortly after his disappearance, and that the same person could be responsible for the abductions and killings of the other kids.
 
If the person who visited Mrs. Gosch wasn't Johnny, who was he? Could he have been an informant who broke away from the "bad ring" that Johnny could have belonged to, in order to warn Johnny's Mother of her son's remaining danger even after all these years? Since so much time has passed, and there are so many different theories, we may never know for sure what really happened to Johnny. I agree with the above poster that it is more likely that he was killed shortly after his disappearance, and that the same person could be responsible for the abductions and killings of the other kids.
Is it possible his mother made up the story about him visiting? Maybe a delusional wishful thinking mother where the mental anguish of your child being abducted and missing for all these years? I don't think he visited, I just can't get my arms around letting him leave if it was him visiting.
 
Is it possible his mother made up the story about him visiting? Maybe a delusional wishful thinking mother where the mental anguish of your child being abducted and missing for all these years? I don't think he visited, I just can't get my arms around letting him leave if it was him visiting.

It's possible she did make up the story, although not likely. However, this is just my opinion. I agree that if she had a visitor, whether Johnny or not, I think Mrs. Gosch has been so emotionally broken down through the years of constant pain and anguish, that she may have accepted in her mind those that would come to talk to her who might even look somewhat like Johnny, AS Johnny. It has been years since I have been to Mrs. Gosch's website, so please forgive me for any inaccurate information. At the time she had some disturbing photos posted of whom she claimed was Johnny tied up, or held against his will. But I remember that many levels of LE have studied those photos, and others connected with the case, and they have said, Mrs. Gosch is wrong, none of those photo's are Johnny.

The point being that her mind through all these years has been conditioned to believe that anyone who looks like Johnny is him. It is probably easier for Noreen to accept in her grief that Johnny is held against his will, rather than believing that he is dead. In her heart and mind, I think she feels that Johnny would love to come home, but too many forces working against that, make this impossible. The strangeness is as others have said, such a threat since 1982, now thirty-two years, seems a stretch to believe.

Why would a presumed abductor let him live for that length of time? It's horrible and awful to think in this way. However, if Johnny Gosh was/is still alive, why not work out some kind of "deal" so that his "abductor(s) could get what they want, like a ransom, or whatever, have LE pay that, or have LE authorities set that up, so that this poor kid can be freed and reunited with his Mother and family? You would think that this is what Noreen and the person she believed is Johnny talked about that night in 1997. Your right, Trenchmouth, why let him go back to that living hell if it really was Johnny?

Satch
 
I have always believed his mother knows deep down Johnny is most likely dead. That is why she says LE can't be trusted, and she refuses to even give a DNA sample to match him to any unidentified persons. I truly believe that if they got a confession from someone, and that person took them to the bodies of young boys, and a positive match was given by dental, DNA, clothing, she would say it's a conspiracy. She has made a world in her mind, where Johnny is alive and on the run. But even if an adult Johnny showed up I don't think she would accept it. Sadly she may have kept LE from actually solving this case, because the reality is something she can't face.
 
It's possible she did make up the story, although not likely. However, this is just my opinion. I agree that if she had a visitor, whether Johnny or not, I think Mrs. Gosch has been so emotionally broken down through the years of constant pain and anguish, that she may have accepted in her mind those that would come to talk to her who might even look somewhat like Johnny, AS Johnny. It has been years since I have been to Mrs. Gosch's website, so please forgive me for any inaccurate information. At the time she had some disturbing photos posted of whom she claimed was Johnny tied up, or held against his will. But I remember that many levels of LE have studied those photos, and others connected with the case, and they have said, Mrs. Gosch is wrong, none of those photo's are Johnny.

The point being that her mind through all these years has been conditioned to believe that anyone who looks like Johnny is him. It is probably easier for Noreen to accept in her grief that Johnny is held against his will, rather than believing that he is dead. In her heart and mind, I think she feels that Johnny would love to come home, but too many forces working against that, make this impossible. The strangeness is as others have said, such a threat since 1982, now thirty-two years, seems a stretch to believe.

Why would a presumed abductor let him live for that length of time? It's horrible and awful to think in this way. However, if Johnny Gosh was/is still alive, why not work out some kind of "deal" so that his "abductor(s) could get what they want, like a ransom, or whatever, have LE pay that, or have LE authorities set that up, so that this poor kid can be freed and reunited with his Mother and family? You would think that this is what Noreen and the person she believed is Johnny talked about that night in 1997. Your right, Trenchmouth, why let him go back to that living hell if it really was Johnny?

Satch
I know it wouldn't happen in my house, (letting him walk back out the door).

Odds are he is no longer alive, but who knows, it's possible he could be.
 
Concerning Noreen refusing to give DNA, Johnny has siblings that can provide the DNA. I would think that if LE found remains that they really thought were Johnny they would approach the siblings.

Also, just thought of this, by Noreen refusing to give DNA it just keeps the Jeff Gannon story alive. Why should he give DNA if Noreen won't.

Mel


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
A heartbreaking case for sure. This runs deep down into the rabbit hole of possible conspiracies, hoaxes, and people taking advantage of the Gosch family. I believe that Johnny is either alive and in hiding, or that he was killed soon after his abduction. I also believe that Mrs. Gosch has been dragged deep into fabricated conspiracies by people who want to take advantage of her frail mental state, unfortunate as that is. I cannot imagine being in the life that she has, where her son has been missing for over thirty years now, and no sign of anything but outlandish tales and tomfoolery.
 
Hello everyone...I will say i am sorry ahead of time .I just seen this on utube and i see a few of you have mentioned it .Iam really curious as to weather or not jeff G really is johnny . Has he taken the dna test yes to prove it one way or the other.
 

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