GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #14

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dd-ball-loner-obsessed-zombie-apocalypse.html

this has the pic from the actual scene yesterday at kibby's residence in NH....

From the above link:

'Forensic teams pore over home and car of Abby Hernandez's 'kidnapper' as woman claims she was viciously attacked by the 'loner obsessed with a zombie apocalypse'
Nathaniel Kibby, 34, was arraigned Tuesday in North Conway, N.H. on charges he kidnapped 15-year-old Abigail Hernandez
Local resident Tammy Shackford tells MailOnline she was viciously shoved to the ground by Kibby in March, following an argument over a car accident
People who have crossed paths with Kibby over the years call him ‘crazy Nate’
He would say things like, ‘I’ll blow this whole trailer park up without even thinking about it,' a neighbor claims
'We expected him to go on a rampage or go crazy with a bomb, not kidnap a child'
By WILL PAYNE IN NORTH CONWAY, NEW HAMPSHIRE

*************************************

article-2711926-20299DED00000578-7_306x423.jpg
Search: A New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation K-9 officer crosses the Moose River as he searches for evidence Thursday, July 31, 2014 behind the home of Nathaniel Kibby in Gorham
 
state police have cadaver dogs but those are air scent and tracking / search and rescue dogs..... I know there is a mod or member who is a verified canine handler on here, but I forget who it is.... keep in mind though that air scent, search and rescue and tracking dogs CAN locate OBJECTS that belong to people, eg: cell phone, keys, wallets, purses, jewelry etc...... I learned that from my local town police depts. canine team :)

ETA links NH www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Law_Enforcement/K9.html

ME www.maine.gov/ifw/warden_service/canine.html

ETA again: In maine fish and game does have cadaver dogs, in NH it is state police and sheriff depts
I know about the different types of canine training. ;) What we're trying to determine:

1. Is the handler/K-9 team depicted in the Maine photo the same as the one seen in the photo of yesterday's search.

2. If so, is the dog trained in HRD (a "cadaver dog"), in other words, one trained solely to search out the scent of human decomposition?
 
Search: A New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation K-9 officer crosses the Moose River as he searches for evidence Thursday, July 31, 2014 behind the home of Nathaniel Kibby in Gorham

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...obsessed-zombie-apocalypse.html#ixzz39AVWRTKy

the officer is not identified nor is the dog but the photo caption clearly states the officer who is handling the canine at NK's place is a member of NH Fish and Game, not Maine.

ETA the game warden from Maine is identified in this cached version of the article about the completely unrelated Mexico Maine case.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VumxfTycQf0J:www.sunjournal.com/news/river-valle...g-continues/1228156+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Conclusion: two different handlers with two different agencies and two different black dogs.
 
after reading that article....i have some reoccurring thoughts....
some of the comments by those that knew him remind me that i continually wonder how much we should inform LE of suspicious people we encounter even if we have seen nothing illegal done by them. i know its a very fine line and i also know people dont want a big brother/nanny state.....but they are not alone in their accounts. they knew him as one who was deeply disturbed and were themselves victims of him. how many of out there know people like kibby - we know something is very very wrong with them....they have done some not so nice things...but they have not crossed into breaking the law - or maybe they have (on paper) but we are too afraid or unsure of reporting them. after all its not illegal to be weird or abnormal.

i say that because there are a couple of kids 2 doors down from me whom I have discussed here before that exhibit VERY VERY disturbing behavior and even some bullying - but nothing has crossed into illegal (that im aware of). im not talking about just obnoxious child/teen behavior. im talking obvious disturbed/psychopathic behaviors. the other day the kids grandmother (who is raising them due to having a methhead criminal mother) was carried off in an ambulance. i dont know what happened but my FIRST thought when i saw the ambulance, etc was 'they killed her'. she is back home now - alive.

if one of those kids are ever in the news, or arrested.....i will be the one that said "im not surprised, i saw it coming". yet ive never done anything about it. am i morally culpable if that happens?

where is THAT line?

JMO, but for me the line is when I see them doing something illegal. There are plenty of "loners" or "oddballs" out there who are harmless. In NK's case, when that line got crossed over, LE was aware of it, charges were filed, etc.

I mean, if I were going to report someone to LE simply because I and more than a few others thought they were crazy (ie. displaying personality-disordered or paranoid thinking and actions), well, I can think of 2-3 family members by marriage who pop up immediately...

ETA: and also JMO, I don't believe one is morally culpable for not reporting a person who has ever displayed "off" behavior. That person has a chance of going on to choose to do good instead of bad, too, especially if things start going in a positive direction for him; you can't be responsible for any choice he might do. Are you equally responsible for the kid down the street who ends up being an Eagle Scout?

IMO, Gladys Kravitz 2 doors down probably wouldn't help two already disadvantaged kids with that nudge in the right direction (especially if still young and somewhat impressionable). Mean that in the best way (loved that character ;)).
 
I had the scariest dream last night about this case. I was at a meeting room, like a church, and my daughter and I got to meet Abby. Abby commented how cute my child was,vand asked who I was. We were interrupted because court was about to start. I was right in front next to an older woman, and they brought Kibby in. He was thrashing about and making snarling noises. He was trying to break free and a tall, brown haired woman (it was actually the female Warden from Orange is the new black) was holding him in chains with his hand behind his back. They had to remove him from the court. The judge interestingly was a heftier black man with an orange wig on. It was kind of weird. He was less than professional in his talking.

They brought Kibby back out and he looked extremely evil. Almost like he was possessed by the devil. His eyes were squinty and he had a wicked smile on his face. I was totally terrified and they told us to move back. The noon clock went off and when the judge called for order, the entire gallery started singing a hymn I'd never heard. It was such a wild dream.

Off topic, but this case is invading my dreams. There were additional charges in my dreams, but I only remember a terrorism charge. It was crazy when I woke up I checked the news and was glad to realize he was still in custody and Abby is still safe.

And for anyone wondering, yes my dreams are always creepy and vivid. I never put any stock into them because I know they are just my brain processing.


I also have had vivid dreams all my life - sometimes good dreams, sometimes not. I had a scary one about this case this week. I was in a lovely park with my family, but everyone was separated. I knew K. was in the park - sometimes he was a man and sometimes an animal. I spent the dream trying to locate my family members and also tracking the predator. It was an awful dream with specific detail. My dreams often repeat themselves, and I'm really hoping this was a one-time only nightmare.

This case is haunting and I want to see a good ending to it...and I think that's where we're headed.
 
ok well in THAT picture the river looks deeper with a swifter current.

in which case I really do wonder what NHF&G was hoping to find in there. and what they did find...

:banghead:

we know less in this case than in the mcstay case!!!

:hills:
 
lol White Rabbit. Try following the April Millsap case in Armada MI. LE won't even say where the body was found in that one. Talk about working with no info.
 
I will NOT follow that case thank you very much. if I do, it will never be solved. curse of the rabbit.

;)
 
The neighbor said: ‘I have known him for years and he was a very odd man. He would always talk to me about zombies and the zombie apocalypse. It was very unnerving. Most people round here avoided Nate.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...obsessed-zombie-apocalypse.html#ixzz39AWvkCyo
Geez, this guy reminds me more and more of Stephen McDaniel. I'd be looking for his presence on a "chan" forum.

Lauren Giddings

McDaniel, he said, was fascinated, often obsessed, with asking people he’d meet two questions, questions to see if they were, in his opinion, sharp enough.

The first question: Where would you go if there was a zombie invasion?

“He’d want to know if you could find a defensible position and if you could find a place you wouldn’t run out of food easily. ... It was just a pure logistics question,” Money said. “Although he was completely convinced that a zombie invasion would happen.”

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/30/1682872/ex-roommate-saw-2-sides-of-mcdaniel.html


McD was also a Christian, survivalist, weapons enthusiast with strong right wing libertarian views. He also was an outspoken law school grad with a lifelong reputation of being "out there", and who happened to wear chainmail.




 
pensfan and tlcya, I think as another poster said (can't remember who) if they HAD found anything biological (cadaver-related), the area would've been taped off and the officer wouldn't have just 'grabbed and tagged' and waved it around excitedly. I say this regardless of the specific type of K9 dog they used (as per Bessie's link). kwim?

they used the word 'object'. so in a fluid area, it must've been something lodged underneath a rock or heavy enough not to be taken by a current.

anyone know what the flow rate (if any) is for that stream/river? doesn't look very deep but IMO would be a pretty stupid place to throw something away. not to mention after 9 months, for LE to be searching it?

thoughts?

That is Moose Brook, Moose Brook state park is just to the west of it, a little bit upstream (I'd say less than 1/2 mile). I used to swim at the state park when I was a girl--the water is very cold, the stream originates at Icy Gulch in Randolph, which is the water supply for part of Gorham and is running off from snow from Mt Washington. My memory of it at the park is that it is deep in places, and fast flowing in some places. I can't speak to how it's like behind NK's place, I never spent time in that part of it. It empties into the Androscoggin River, not very far from NK's place.....The Androscoggin is a larger river that eventually empties into the Atlantic Ocean in Bath Maine I believe.
 
Search: A New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation K-9 officer crosses the Moose River as he searches for evidence Thursday, July 31, 2014 behind the home of Nathaniel Kibby in Gorham

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...obsessed-zombie-apocalypse.html#ixzz39AVWRTKy

the officer is not identified nor is the dog but the photo caption clearly states the officer who is handling the canine at NK's place is a member of NH Fish and Game, not Maine.

ETA the game warden from Maine is identified in this cached version of the article about the completely unrelated Mexico Maine case.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VumxfTycQf0J:www.sunjournal.com/news/river-valle...g-continues/1228156+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Conclusion: two different handlers with two different agencies and two different black dogs.

Thank you for that. IMO I agree they are not the same, however it would not be unheard of. Specialized agents can work for more than 1 agency and are called according to need. Some dogs are specially trained - this dog in Gorham is likely trained for scent tracking in water. I am no expert but I believe that would be a special trait for That Dog and That Handler as a team, and likely is not also used as a cadaver dog. We have some SAR experts on WS so if someone wants to weigh in then please do.

my :cow:
 
Thank you for that. IMO I agree they are not the same, however it would not be unheard of. Specialized agents can work for more than 1 agency and are called according to need. Some dogs are specially trained - this dog in Gorham is likely trained for scent tracking in water. I am no expert but I believe that would be a special trait for That Dog and That Handler as a team, and likely is not also used as a cadaver dog. We have some SAR experts on WS so if someone wants to weigh in then please do.

my :cow:

In the picture on this site, you can clearly see the truck in the background with NH plates that says Caution: Police Dog K-9 Unit

http://www.georgianewsday.com/news/...nandez-alleged-kidnapper-nathaniel-kibby.html
 
We need more Gladys Kravitzes in this world. LOL

When we lived in Reno, NV there were meth labs in other townhouses in our complex, there was a biker club using one as a party house, there were 3 bodies laying on our premises, including 2 murderers shot by police and we had a bullet go through our first floor window [when I was home alone I stayed on the 3rd floor]. Police were so busy that not much was done when people did call.

JMO, but for me the line is when I see them doing something illegal. There are plenty of "loners" or "oddballs" out there who are harmless. In NK's case, when that line got crossed over, LE was aware of it, charges were filed, etc.

I mean, if I were going to report someone to LE simply because I and more than a few others thought they were crazy (ie. displaying personality-disordered or paranoid thinking and actions), well, I can think of 2-3 family members by marriage who pop up immediately...

ETA: and also JMO, I don't believe one is morally culpable for not reporting a person who has ever displayed "off" behavior. That person has a chance of going on to choose to do good instead of bad, too, especially if things start going in a positive direction for him; you can't be responsible for any choice he might do. Are you equally responsible for the kid down the street who ends up being an Eagle Scout?

IMO, Gladys Kravitz 2 doors down probably wouldn't help two already disadvantaged kids with that nudge in the right direction (especially if still young and somewhat impressionable). Mean that in the best way (loved that character ;)).
 
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