The Suitcase - Duvet, Sham & Dr. Suess

New Posts

Is it possible that JB was in contact with the duvet the night of her murder prior to the duvet being placed into the suitcase? JR stated he thought the suitcase was empty when he took it to the basement at an earlier time. Maybe the sham, duvet and book were gathered up to place into the suitcase because they would have looked suspicious as part of the crime?
 
Something similar to that description is entirely possible, midwest mama. They are suspicious because they are at the CS. When did the housekeeper borrow the suitcase bc we know she returned it empty?

JARs semen stained duvet/sham could have been stored in JARs bedroom closet and packed into the suitcase during the commission of the crime. Who knows where the Dr. Seuss book came from or belonged to but I seriously doubt it was JARs and most likely belonged in PR or JRs personal book collection?

The duvet fibers on the shoulder of JBs white shirt, etc is evidence we cannot overlook in the CS and pretend the suitcase/contents have no value. I submit that the horizontal [drag] abrasions near the top of JBs shoulder line up with the duvet fibers on her clothing but the contact was fairly minimal since few duvet/sham fibers were present and those items were free of urine, AFAWK.

There was never an attempt nor a desire to remove JB via the suitcase. The suitcase was there for a purpose. It held incriminating objects belonging to the family, JAR, in particular. Perhaps JAR realized the items intentionally incriminated him thus he prayed to forgive this flashy person who betrayed him by stashing the book of nudes inside the suitcase w/his duvet/sham.
 
On a side note, I never payed attention to the fact that people here were debating wether or not JB could fit in that suitcase- from personal experience we have a set of luggage (Heys brand) that are all hard sided and rolling- 1 is a carry-on size piece, the next size up is smaller then the Samsonite and the third is larger then the Samsonite- they store nicely because they fit inside each other like nesting dolls. My little girls ages 10 and 13 have climbed in and dragged each other around in the second and third sizes- easily! They get in trouble- but they have done it! In my opinion- JonBenet would have easily fit in that suitcase.
 
Frigga, you are so right. I may need to adjust my thoughts on JBR being placed inside that Samsonite luggage.


Chicago mom found dead in suitcase in Bali; daughter, daughter's boyfriend arrested

Heather Mack, 19, and her boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer, 21, were arrested after the teen's mother, Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, was found dead inside a suitcase in a taxi outside the Indonesian resort island of Bali. A family friend said von Wiese Mack had struggled with her daughter since her husband's death.

Her friend and neighbor last saw von Wiese-Mack when she moved from Oak Park to a downtown Chicago condominium about a year ago. She said the victim -- a cultured woman with an MBA who worked for Sen. Ted Kennedy and Studs Terkel at different points in her life -- simply could not control her mentally unstable daughter.

"Either threatened her and battered her, so I came with her once, and she had a psychotic episode. Police came. (The child did?) Yeah. And they took her away," said the friend. "She's the only child she had and she loved her so much, that she didn't want to hurt her and she didn't want to leave her in any mental institution too long. And she was also scared to death."

gty_woman_suitcase_bali_wy_140813_16x9_992.jpg


http://abc7chicago.com/news/american-mom-found-dead-in-suitcase-in-bali/255596/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...d-dead-suitcase-bali-resort-article-1.1901767
 
JB was never in a suitcase. Livor patterns on her body indicate that was impossible. There was only one livor pattern and the pattern matched the position of the body when she was found. As time went on and rigor set in, that would also have made it impossible for her arms and legs to be placed in the position they were in when she was found.
 
DeeDee249 said:
JB was never in a suitcase. Livor patterns on her body indicate that was impossible. There was only one livor pattern and the pattern matched the position of the body when she was found. As time went on and rigor set in, that would also have made it impossible for her arms and legs to be placed in the position they were in when she was found.
Click to expand...

Could someone have attempted to put her in the suitcase after rigor had already set In, and then possibly abandoned the idea when they realized what a struggle it would be?
 
DeeDee249 said:
JB was never in a suitcase. Livor patterns on her body indicate that was impossible. There was only one livor pattern and the pattern matched the position of the body when she was found. As time went on and rigor set in, that would also have made it impossible for her arms and legs to be placed in the position they were in when she was found.
Click to expand...

JB was never in a suitcase.
Click to expand...

May I suppose that you have a link for this assertion that you are putting forward as fact?

I hold the belief that the suitcase and its contents played a larger role in this crime than most people will admit. I certainly do not believe that JonBenét was placed inside the Samsonite postmortem. Nor do I believe there was ever even a consideration to remove the body from the home at TOD.

However, if JB was bonked on the head upstairs on the second floor, she was barely breathing but still alive. Then, JB could have been secreted inside the Samsonite for the trip down to the basement. At that point in time, she could be removed from the suitcase while in that horrid basement near the paint tote. [It pains me just typing those words.]

moo omho mho and all that jazz
 
DeeDee249 said:
JB was never in a suitcase. Livor patterns on her body indicate that was impossible. There was only one livor pattern and the pattern matched the position of the body when she was found. As time went on and rigor set in, that would also have made it impossible for her arms and legs to be placed in the position they were in when she was found.
Click to expand...

Here's a thought... Jon Benet had the head injury and looked dead. Jon Benet was alive however and thus COULD be put in tight suitcase to carry to the basement. In the basement Jon Benet was "strangled" and killed. Now Jon Benet was dead and rigor patterns would be formed. Evidence on Jon Benet said she had been in the suitcase. No rigor pattern of being so said she wasn't dead yet.
 
Any idea what the (approximate) dimensions of the suitcase might be?...
 
bettybaby00 said:
Could someone have attempted to put her in the suitcase after rigor had already set In, and then possibly abandoned the idea when they realized what a struggle it would be?
Click to expand...

NO. Rigor would have prevented her limbs from being bent. And if it had been forced, rigor would "break" and if that happens it can never re-form. JB was in full rigor when she was found and when the coroner examined the body around 8 pm that night. She was not bent, folded, placed in a suitcase, freezer, or anything else. She was placed on her back, legs straight out, soon after she died and remained that way until she was brought up. JR carried her so gingerly- she was stiff as a board literally- around her waist like a mannequin that bringing her upstairs did not break rigor either.
 
midwest mama said:
Now I pick up my waiting copy of "The Other Side of Suffering". I have not had the guts to get started on it because the publishing of it is what got me riled enough about JB's case to start posting. But I figure, OK, if I have to just back off for a while and let some of my quirky obsessions have a break, then I will just try to take an objective look at what Mr. Ramsey has had to say.

On page 12, he is recounting making the plans for the ransom money and is now just waiting for the ransom call. Which is not coming. He says:
"I remember last summer when I got locked out of the house; I broke a pane in a basement window, reached in and pulled open the latch, and was able to climb inside. Patsy had asked our cleaning lady's husband to fix that window. Had it been fixed? I rush downstairs to check. No. The pane is still broken. The window stands wide open. A big old Samsonite suitcase is set beneath the window. Who put that there? The suitcase is like a stool to climb up and crawl out the window. ......I rush up the stairs. I tell one of the policemen about the window. I can barely form the words. I'm sick to my stomach. I have to keep my wits about me...."

Does this sound like the other police and witness accounts we have?

Then, on pg. 15, JR says this: "The female detective asks me to take someone with me and go through the entire house to see if anything is unusual or out of place. Okay, sure. We decide to work from the bottom up since the third floor has no access to the outside. "Right. Basement first," and we head down the stairs. My legs are trembling and I stumble on the stair. I regain my balance. I head down the basement stairs and into the room where Burke's electric train is set up. I show my friend the broken window, which is still open, the samll splinters of glass on the floor and on the suitcase. This isn't right. The suitcase shouldn't be here. Did the kidnapper take my child out the basement window? My friend didn't tell me he had already noted the open window when he was down here earlier. I'm feeling dizzy."

So which is it, the window was broken earlier, and the glass didn't get cleaned up, and there is a suitcase sitting there that shouldn't be there, but if it was just recently put there, how could glass from a window broken BEFORE it was put there, end up on it - as JR said just a few pages later?? If the suitcase had been there all along and had glass on it from JR breaking the window in the summer, why did he then wonder why the suitcase was there and say it wasn't right??

And if have to recant a bit on my former truce. I will accept that JB was not in the suitcase after she was finally dead. But I can also accept that JB might have been carried from her bedroom to the basement in that suitcase being unconscious, but still alive. There was activity involving her death which connects to the basement near the paint tray, and I believe she could have been removed from the suitcase alive, and the final evils against her happened in the basement, with the suitcase being carelessly abandoned.

If the suitcase was abandoned and left below the window, in order for it to have glass found on and near it, the window had to have been broken that night, and not earlier in the summer. And it would have been done intentionally in order to provide and entry/exit for an intrude/kidnapper.
Click to expand...

Then someone stuffed a semen stained comforter and a child book in it. If so, why?
 
DeDee said:
May I suppose that you have a link for this assertion that you are putting forward as fact?

I hold the belief that the suitcase and its contents played a larger role in this crime than most people will admit. I certainly do not believe that JonBenét was placed inside the Samsonite postmortem. Nor do I believe there was ever even a consideration to remove the body from the home at TOD.

However, if JB was bonked on the head upstairs on the second floor, she was barely breathing but still alive. Then, JB could have been secreted inside the Samsonite for the trip down to the basement. At that point in time, she could be removed from the suitcase while in that horrid basement near the paint tote. [It pains me just typing those words.]

moo omho mho and all that jazz
Click to expand...

ITA. Forensically, JB would have had to come in contact with that suitcase while she was still alive. If there was an attempt to take her from upstairs to the basement in it, as quietly as possible, that mostly would indicate an adult carrying the suitcase. A suitcase being dragged due to weight would have made "thumping" sounds going down the stairs, possibly awakening someone or drawing attention. There was a trip coming up, so one of the parents being seen carrying a suitcase down the steps might have been explained away, if necessary.
 
DeDee said:
Something similar to that description is entirely possible, midwest mama. They are suspicious because they are at the CS. When did the housekeeper borrow the suitcase bc we know she returned it empty?

JARs semen stained duvet/sham could have been stored in JARs bedroom closet and packed into the suitcase during the commission of the crime. Who knows where the Dr. Seuss book came from or belonged to but I seriously doubt it was JARs and most likely belonged in PR or JRs personal book collection?

The duvet fibers on the shoulder of JBs white shirt, etc is evidence we cannot overlook in the CS and pretend the suitcase/contents have no value. I submit that the horizontal [drag] abrasions near the top of JBs shoulder line up with the duvet fibers on her clothing but the contact was fairly minimal since few duvet/sham fibers were present and those items were free of urine, AFAWK.

There was never an attempt nor a desire to remove JB via the suitcase. The suitcase was there for a purpose. It held incriminating objects belonging to the family, JAR, in particular. Perhaps JAR realized the items intentionally incriminated him thus he prayed to forgive this flashy person who betrayed him by stashing the book of nudes inside the suitcase w/his duvet/sham.
Click to expand...


I've wondered if JonBenet had been placed in the suitcase at some point . Is the suitcase still around? would it have any snaps or buttons that could of made the mark on JonBenet's face?

It wasn't a book of nudes it was a little child's book in the age range of JonBenet,

JAR is on the radar because it's not a common thing to have a child's book and a twenty year old man's semen stained comforter together in one place - a little girl that's been sexual molested - frantic after hours calls to Dr B. on the seventeenth - an open dictionary with the page folded under incest ( I wonder if Pasty wanted to know if a step brother molesting your baby girl is considered incest) - JonBenet growing clingy before the holidays - Jar there with Burke and JonBenet when John and Pasty had a church party for one hundred and fifty people on the thirteenth - JAR left Boulder on the nineteenth


I've wondered if JonBenet had been placed in the suitcase at some point . Is the suitcase still around? would it have any snaps or buttons that could of made the mark on JonBenet's face? or a button on the duvet?


This at Acandyrose

ST: And I have spoken with Linda, and she’s identified this suitcase as belonging to, well not necessarily belonging to, but a suitcase that she has used and that John Andrew has used, and that John Andrew likely had left at your house.
PR: Right.
ST: Do you recognize that blue suitcase?
PR: Yes.
ST: OK. Can you tell me anything about it?
PR: Well, just it’s old hard Samsonite or whatever, you know.
ST: And what this something that John Andrew let at the 15th Street home while he went to school at CU?
PR: Yeah, yeah, that’s to my recollection. Yeah, he moved out here with a bunch of stuff and then he left a lot of stuff t our house that he didn’t want to take to the dorm.
ST: Do you know where he kept that in your home, or where you last saw that?
PR: No, I don’t remember where I last saw it.
ST: OK.
PR: He, I don’t know.
ST: Where would John Andrew store his other items and affects?
PR: Some of the things are in his room I think, in the closet, and I think he put a bunch of stuff down in the basement. A computer, he had a computer and a printer, and I think that might have been in the basement too. It’s pretty big, I think it was in the basement.
ST: Do you know what room in the basement he would have, his stuff was stored in? Was it in the train room, or the…
PR: It wasn’t, I don’t know now, there was so much stuff down there. I can, it could have been anywhere.
 
ILikeToBendPages said:
I've wondered if JonBenet had been placed in the suitcase at some point . Is the suitcase still around? would it have any snaps or buttons that could of made the mark on JonBenet's face?

It wasn't a book of nudes it was a little child's book in the age range of JonBenet,

JAR is on the radar because it's not a common thing to have a child's book and a twenty year old man's semen stained comforter together in one place - a little girl that's been sexual molested - frantic after hours calls to Dr B. on the seventeenth - an open dictionary with the page folded under incest ( I wonder if Pasty wanted to know if a step brother molesting your baby girl is considered incest) - JonBenet growing clingy before the holidays - Jar there with Burke and JonBenet when John and Pasty had a church party for one hundred and fifty people on the thirteenth - JAR left Boulder on the nineteenth
Click to expand...

It wasn't a book of nudes it was a little child's book in the age range of JonBenet
Click to expand...

That is an inaccurate statement. I discovered the image months ago that states that it was indeed the adult Dr. Seuss book. It was the only Dr Seuss adult book that included nude drawings. It is the only book he wrote that was not for children. It was reprinted again later. gramcracker kindly provided the link to it on Amazon in post #255.

Read the top line of this image that states "It had the adult Dr. Seuss book in it."

AnatomyColdCase224.jpg



I believe the title was never released to the public since the killer was the only one who may have known it was the adult Dr Seuss book inside the suitcase along with blue blue duvet and sham.
 
DeDee said:
That is an inaccurate statement. I discovered the image months ago that states that it was indeed the adult Dr. Seuss book. It was the only Dr Seuss adult book that included nude drawings. It is the only book he wrote that was not for children. It was reprinted again later. gramcracker kindly provided the link to it on Amazon in post #255.

Read the top line of this image that states "It had the adult Dr. Seuss book in it."

AnatomyColdCase224.jpg



I believe the title was never released to the public since the killer was the only one who may have known it was the adult Dr Seuss book inside the suitcase along with blue blue duvet and sham.
Click to expand...

I have never noticed that...... it still keeps JAR in the circle of who molested Jonbenet before that night she was murdered.
 
I've read the interviews with John and the suitcase and book, and his reply was yes, they had bookshelves all over, but I haven't seen them ask about *advertiser censored*. So he didn't know?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 104 more.
Total: 3,922 (members: 105, guests: 3,817)

Online statistics

Members online
105
Guests online
3,817
Total visitors
3,922
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
594,001
Messages
17,997,270
Members
229,294
Latest member
drena519
Back
Top