GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #3

[tvscum]

IMO gang bangers and drug dealers normally have criminal records and don't hold down jobs at Target for eight years. CM has no record whatsoever.

I believe CM's sister was in court taking notes, along with another older female. Could have been his mother or other relative.

If CM's a wanna be hit man, why take Sal's keys? Why not just walk up, shoot and run?

If Gianni was the target, why walk inside the mall presumably after Gianni was dead and talk to Ilona and follow her out? (One possible answer, the man seen on surveillance video was not the killer, but just a random guy).

 

[obmama]

IMO gang bangers and drug dealers normally have criminal records and don't hold down jobs at Target for eight years. CM has no record whatsoever.

I believe CM's sister was in court taking notes, along with another older female. Could have been his mother or other relative.

If CM's a wanna be hit man, why take Sal's keys? Why not just walk up, shoot and run?

If Gianni was the target, why walk inside the mall presumably after Gianni was dead and talk to Ilona and follow her out? (One possible answer, the man seen on surveillance video was not the killer, but just a random guy).

I didn't know CM had a sister. I believe he has a 31 year old female cousin, whose parents he resided with at the Mira Mesa address. Maybe it was her and CM's aunt. There's also a sister-in-law in Northern Cali. Perhaps their identities were unknown to news reporters, usually spectators related to a victim are IDed.

The hitman persona was identified in the search warrants and connected to the cache of weapons in his car, including an unregistered A-15 assault rifle and homemade silencer. It may be unusual for gang bangers to have stable jobs or clean criminal history, but these qualities are attractive in the illegal weapons trade.

If CM is guilty of triple murder, I find it hard to believe he did not engage in some clandestine activities in his past. People commit crimes every day and aren't caught. Had he not made the mistake of driving thru a check point with illegal weapons, this would remain a cold case.

Other unexplained actions . . . approaching Ilona after she left work, observing her from a distance, and allegedly shooting her and Sal . . . only add to the mystery of this case.

Assassins either work for/with someone or are crazy mass murders like Adam Lanza, James Holmes and Jared Loughner. Since CM didn't exhibit mental instability to this degree, organized crime is a strong possibility. That is, unless there's a connection to the victims we don't know about.

 

[SDNV]

I think Gianni was the target, that he was killed after his phone call to cousin Mario ended (11:43 p.m.) and before CM approached Ilona (12:12 p.m.). CM's phone records (4 phones were confiscated) were not released in the warrants, but he made at least one call after his encounter with Ilona. This was observed in surveillance video and prompted the "tower dump" in search of cell phone activity in the vicinity, concentrating on multiple calls made from CP-1. CM was not a suspect at the time, so it's possible the initial search deemed unsuccessful, was found valuable later, in connection with CM's phone call to a co-conspirator who was on the look-out in the driver's seat of Gianni's car. The person identified was most likely CM, getting in the passenger side of a car similar to Gianni's, possibly using the passenger door to enter the back seat while Gianni lay dead in front. I believe that Gianni was misidentified by the two Macy's employees, and it was actually CM they saw. CM'S height, weight and complexion are a better match to their description.

Regarding the warrants: I would like to see the warrants for CM’s phone records from his multiple phones. Knowing that I would not get to read that data that was returned but just confirm that they requested and obtained the data. And if those warrants were like the others, we whold at least get to see what phone numbers belonged to CM

Also, what about the tracking of his phones that night and the time between the murders and when Gianni’s body was discovered? I am sure that LE and the DA office has this info and that those warrants exist. Were they part of those released and have been deemed redundant and whoever wants them to go the Court an pay for them. Or, are those warrants still being kept sealed along with whatever other information the DA does not want released yet. Also, who owned the phones that were identified as making calls during all three events? If one or more of CM’s phones were in the vicinity of the mall that hight than they would have had to be included in the tower dump data.

Question is . . . why would CM hang out in the parking lot for 1 1/2 hours? I can't find it now, but remember reading about a text message from Sal to Gianni in this time frame, content was never revealed. Sal's phone was never recovered. This, with phone calls Ilona made to hospitals and county jail, indicates she and Sal had cause to worry about Gianni, and likely hold the key to a motive that has LE, family and everyone else mystified.

This is the most perplexing to me. What happened during the 90 minutes after Gianni was presumably killed and Ilona an Sal were wanting in the parking lot? We know that Sal and Ilona were trying to find Gianni and were hoping that he may show up there. Maybe Ilona was "dabbling" with something “to help with the stress.”

But the real question is what CM and his possible accomplices doing during this time. I would think that the original plan was to just kill Gianni and get out of there while leaving the least amount of evidence possible behind. In the process they they discovered that at least one other potential target was still on scene, a Sitting Duck as described by Obmamma. And after allot of discussion, and possible conferring with others up the command chain, the decision was made to completely settle the score now. If was gang related, this part where the foot soldiers (CM) have to ask permission, then it is mulled over by whoever calls the shots and then the order is given. This can take a little bit of time and lots of cell phone calls would have been needed to be made.

 

[thebestinthewest]

I didn't know CM had a sister. I believe he has a 31 year old female cousin, whose parents he resided with at the Mira Mesa address. Maybe it was her and CM's aunt. There's also a sister-in-law in Northern Cali. Perhaps their identities were unknown to news reporters, usually spectators related to a victim are IDed.

The hitman persona was identified in the search warrants and connected to the cache of weapons in his car, including an unregistered A-15 assault rifle and homemade silencer. It may be unusual for gang bangers to have stable jobs or clean criminal history, but these qualities are attractive in the illegal weapons trade.

If CM is guilty of triple murder, I find it hard to believe he did not engage in some clandestine activities in his past. People commit crimes every day and aren't caught. Had he not made the mistake of driving thru a check point with illegal weapons, this would remain a cold case.

Other unexplained actions . . . approaching Ilona after she left work, observing her from a distance, and allegedly shooting her and Sal . . . only add to the mystery of this case.

Assassins either work for/with someone or are crazy mass murders like Adam Lanza, James Holmes and Jared Loughner. Since CM didn't exhibit mental instability to this degree, organized crime is a strong possibility. That is, unless there's a connection to the victims we don't know about.

He lived with his sister Marianne and her husband Ronnie as soon as I get the clearance to start updating the Facebook again I will post pictures. The reason we have not been updated is because of CM making a fake Facebook ugh that guy is ruining my life lol I really need to make a copy of mrsobrien's liquor cabinet key all of the stuff going on is driving me to drink

 

[thebestinthewest]

I'd be willing to bet my makeup collection CM is not in a gang. He is a gamer and comic-con affencinado I'd really be surprised if he did not have Asperges or Skitzophrenia.

 

[nikb]

Me too and if drugs were not involved they will still be labeled as junkies

Maybe it's just me, but I don't consider them "junkies" - it actually makes me feel even sadder for them if they were stuck in that cycle of addiction on top of whatever else happened. Especially if it led to their deaths. To be fair they did have the drugs in their systems (except for Sal). That's probably one of the few things that I've actually believed that has come out in this case because so much of the rest has morphed over time.

General question... I know gang members and murder pretty much go hand in hand but does anyone remember a case of a gang member going after so many family members over a couple of hours? Could this really just be an assassin's 'fantasy'? I guess it's a good thing but I have such a hard time even comprehending that.

 

[SDNV]

His greasy uncombed hair and sullen expression make him look sloppy and unkempt. Appearances are vital to a suspect's claim of innocence and many attorneys "clean em up" and "dress em up"to present a positive image. I have to laugh when I see thugs sporting a geek look, with horn-rimmed glasses and an expression of innocence. CM doesn't seem willing to make an effort.

I think you will see him with a haircut and a suit for the trial, if there is a trial. This was just a hearing with a judge and attorneys. There was no jury present to impress.

Will this case make it to trial? I believe that if CM were to take a plea bargain for Life or LWOP, part of the deal would be a full confession and that could spell big danger when he is sent to prison if he gives up accomplices names etc. At the very least he would have to be assigned to a special needs yard.

Another question will be that if he goes to trail, will they try him for all three murders and the same time, or hold one back as a hole card in the event that he is somehow aquitted.

 

[Barbarella]

I'd be willing to bet my makeup collection CM is not in a gang. He is a gamer and comic-con affencinado I'd really be surprised if he did not have Asperges or Skitzophrenia.

I don't know that I believe CM is/was in a gang but I would bet he was involved in some type of organized crime which led him to follow through on the murders of Sal, Gianni, and Ilona.

I also don't think CM has schizophrenia. Most people with this mental illness are more likely to hurt themselves than to be violent towards someone else. Most of the make-believe things you see on tv and in the movies tend to link mental illnesses such as schizophrenia to criminal violence. But, it's just not reality. If anyone on this board has a family member or friend with this illness they could tell you the only person they are a threat to is themselves.

 

[tvscum]

I think you will see him with a haircut and a suit for the trial, if there is a trial. This was just a hearing with a judge and attorneys. There was no jury present to impress.

Will this case make it to trial? I believe that if CM were to take a plea bargain for Life or LWOP, part of the deal would be a full confession and that could spell big danger when he is sent to prison if he gives up accomplices names etc. At the very least he would have to be assigned to a special needs yard.

Another question will be that if he goes to trail, will they try him for all three murders and the same time, or hold one back as a hole card in the event that he is somehow aquitted.

They definitely will try him for all three at once. The plea deal negotiations normally begin after the prelim, so if he is going to roll over on someone the time is now. The DA decides whether to go for the death penalty right about now too. So, it's all going on behind the scenes in the coming weeks.

 

[obmama]

He lived with his sister Marianne and her husband Ronnie as soon as I get the clearance to start updating the Facebook again I will post pictures. The reason we have not been updated is because of CM making a fake Facebook ugh that guy is ruining my life lol I really need to make a copy of mrsobrien's liquor cabinet key all of the stuff going on is driving me to drink

Really? After he was first arrested, I remember reading or watching a video that said he lived with a sister and brother-in-law. When I found they were both in their 50's, and her maiden name was Mercado, I presumed it was his father's sister. No one else in the Mira Mesa household, that I know of, is a Mercado.

 

[obmama]

I think you will see him with a haircut and a suit for the trial, if there is a trial. This was just a hearing with a judge and attorneys. There was no jury present to impress.

I'd think he would try to impress the judge who decides if enough evidence is presented, the case will go to trial. At an early hearing, his hair was trimmed and combed. Since then, every appearance is worse than the last. Don't know if he's on meds that make him look all puffy and devoid of emotion, but his scruffy appearance and sullen look can be interpreted as disinterest in making a good impression in an effort to make it questionable about the role he played in these murders, especially since there's no criminal past. He seems either burdened with guilt, or having no remorse.

 

[obmama]

I don't know that I believe CM is/was in a gang but I would bet he was involved in some type of organized crime which led him to follow through on the murders of Sal, Gianni, and Ilona.

I also don't think CM has schizophrenia. Most people with this mental illness are more likely to hurt themselves than to be violent towards someone else. Most of the make-believe things you see on tv and in the movies tend to link mental illnesses such as schizophrenia to criminal violence. But, it's just not reality. If anyone on this board has a family member or friend with this illness they could tell you the only person they are a threat to is themselves.

The guns and apparent lack of socialization made me think "gang". At 29 years old and after 8 years on the job, if I remember correctly as a stock person, he doesn't seem to have much career incentive. His brothers, if I've identified them correctly, are college educated and have professional jobs. I don't know his birth order, or if there are other siblings, but imagine he feels inferior and distanced beyond the miles that separate him. However, he displays a good work ethic based on longevity at a job he's held since he was 21 years old.

I found these posts in the comments section of a news story . . .

[modsnip]

People who get involved with gangs are looking for a sense of "belonging". CM doesn't represent the younger set, who get caught up in stupid shows of aggression, violence and territorial claims. Rather, his stability and expertise in the firearms field, including the ability to legally buy guns, puts him in a powerful position. He may not be an authentic gang member, but his interest in assassinations and assault rifles insinuate a connection at some level to organized crime.

A lack of identity at the social and career levels, and absence of criminal history that nearly got him away with a triple murder, points to a probable double life that included his fantasies as an assassin. West mentioned he was a video game hobbyist. There are beliefs that young people can't differentiate between the make believe and real life effects of violence on TV and video games. This may be one of those cases, and it stands to reason he did not act alone.

 

[obmama]

They definitely will try him for all three at once. The plea deal negotiations normally begin after the prelim, so if he is going to roll over on someone the time is now. The DA decides whether to go for the death penalty right about now too. So, it's all going on behind the scenes in the coming weeks.

Right you are. I'm not a fan, but Bonnie Dumanis has years of expertise in these matters. It's usual to consult with victims' families before agreeing to the death penalty or plea deals. She did an outstanding job in the John Gardner case, that led to the discovery of Amber Dubois' remains. It required the parents of Chelsea King to allow their daughter's murderer to escape Death Row, in exchange for his guilty plea in Amber's murder. Other families find closure by opting for LWOP, to spare them the pain of countless appeals and delays of execution that usually exceed 20 years.

This may be one of those cases, in an effort to find answers and motive, however, it's questionable whether the death penalty will crack CM's silence. If he incriminates others, a life sentence in the prison's general population could end his life before a death row sentence runs its course. At this point, physical evidence only ties him to Gianni's murder. His attorney will play this card in an effort to sway the jury against convicting him for the murders of Sal and Ilona. I don't know how only one conviction, for three murder charges, affects a death penalty ruling that is based on multiple victims.

Another consideration is a recent ruling by a federal judge that California's death penalty is unconstitutional, based on "decades-long delays and uncertainty about whether condemned inmates will ever be executed violate the constitution's ban on cruel or unusual punishment."

It could be a few years before this case goes to trial, if the death penalty is on the table.

 

[SurfieTX]

Was it ever said if Gianni's phone was found in his car/on his person?

 

[geevee]

It helps LE solve gang related crimes! They engage in keyboard commando, and if you can decipher the code, they implicate themselves. A successful criminal has tight lips, these fools can't keep their mouths shut. I got the heebie jeebies looking them up, hopefully they don't have a Geek Squad IDing my location!

I had the same thought so copied the link and used Google cache to view the page. Not sure if that kept my IP from their eyes but hopefully. lol

 

[Philigumbo]

I usually just lurk here, but today I wanted to say this...please pardon the length...I just get a feeling that CM committed the murders as a part of an assassin fantasy, like a game that he thought he was capable of being successful in; and the murderers' plan was very brazen - taking out 3 people, stealing a car, stealing phones and car keys, approaching IF in the mall, and leaving 2 bodies without much escape time -and he almost got away with it! However, his actions after the murders seem so fractured and got him caught....driving through the checkpoint with an unregistered weapon and an unlawful silencer; acting so unstable at the checkpoint that they call to check on his family; driving GB's car (most probably with GB's bloody body in the front seat or trunk), (or having an alive, kidnapped, GB drive) 100 miles; leaving GB's car and body in such an open area; leaving DNA and hair at the scene in Riverside; keeping the murder weapon;his demeanor in court - he looks like he is mentally and emotionally spent. He took a lot of risks beyond the actual murders... It's like he was so wrapped up in the "murder plan" that he didn't think out a "post-murder plan." Additionally, I believe there was a reason they were targeted, whether a paid hit, drug-related, or an obsession by a mad man, I don't think GB, SB, and IF were random victims - he sought out IF in the mall after GB was already unaccounted for. As far as GB's body and car being left in a public parking lot, after missing for weeks...I wonder that keeping the car and GB's body hidden drove weak CM a little crazy (or crazier!), having to deal with the reality of a decomposing body, he "lost it,"based on his (previously mentioned above) fractured behavior. That is when he began to come apart and make mistakes. Remember, he was stopped at the checkpoint and acted odd the day after GB was located. And, as far as a possible obsession, could it have been GB who was the object of the obsession? I say that because it was GB who CM kept with him, not IF. Perhaps CM saw GB as having everything CM didn't, even if from afar. SB and IF almost seem like (pardon me) "collateral damage." They would raise the alarm, already were, actually, by recognizing GB missing and making calls to locate him. I also ponder that CM took the phone and keys from SB before IF even came out from work, like in a staged robbery, to make sure he stayed there, what else could SB do but wait for IF? Would explain why they stayed in the parking lot so long. I have wondered if CB attempted to abduct IF before she got to the car, and she ran, thus 2 gunshot wounds. SB wouldn't have been able to follow or call immediately for help and GB in the trunk could have helped control her.
Further, CM just doesn't seem like a gang-banger to me, but more a person who was disillusioned regarding own capabilities. He either accepted a "hit" or had his own reasons, and he miscalculated his own abilities. This case just reminds me so much of some of the crazy Dungeons and Dragons murders we had during the '80's (some rightfully linked, many not), and gaming has become so much more gory and violent than that era. People believe they can drive like in video games and movies, shoot like in video games and movies, and carry out plans like in the movies, referencing CM's "assassin" passwords and top 50 assassin movies he linked. I'm not anti-gamers, etc., but I think CM is a weak person and fantasized about being revered as a "Jackel" of some sort, if only in his own mind. He does not look mentally stable to me. He looks emotionally and mentally malleable and flat...
MOO..and thanks for listening!

 

[SDHELPS]

Obviously I can't post it, but I did A LOT of sleuthing as soon as we had a name.

He has A LOT of family. And it's one very complicated 'tree' trying to figure out some of how various people are related.

I spent a lot (probably more accurately a slightly ridiculous amount!) of time trying to sort it all out and also try to see if I could pinpoint any connections.

Eventually I gave up because it was getting so lengthy and tedious.

Plus, people starting questioning/saying/mentioning names on other sites just trying to find out who CM was really, and even places like WS where they weren't being named but enough was being said for some to apparently realize their FB pages, etc. were being looked at and then everything started going 'poof.'

I had been SCing along with all the other digging, but even as quickly as I had started and before much was out there, that I wasn't able to get as far back on some before they 'poofed' as I had been trying.

Anyway, all that to say, yes there's a lot of family and friends who seem to essentially be family in some cases.

There was only one who I wouldn't have been shocked to have seen named as a possible connection between the families, but that was one of the first that 'poofed' so I never was able to dig enough personally at least to figure out if it actually was a connection. But even then it seemed like it'd likely have been a looser one. Given what has been said thus far, though, apparently it isn't.

BBM - I did the same thing TravelingBug when I was search for CM's police records. He does have a lot of family and some do have public records. But at this time we can't go there.

 

[SDHELPS]

Yes. What's that about? CM pleads not guilty and his attorney says he has no connections to the people killed, but we know his gun does. He's so uninvolved, and yet tries to commit suicide immediately upon arrest. Did he know that the safest place for him was in the psyche ward of the jail? There's hits done in jails and prisons, as well.

This is one of the few cases where I have no firm opinion on what the motive must've been. There's possibilities from all kinds of angles, some we can't discuss yet, but it is enough to make me a basket case.

Basket case? Where does that saying come from anyways?

Of course I was not privy to the prelim hearing in person but did CM's attorney seem he was really trying to defend him in any of his objections or comments? I understand this was not a trial but I can't help but wonder what CM has even told him? Especially in his defense or not being guilty. I sure would love to be a fly on the wall in their meetings.

I do not have a solid opinion of motive either and I have a feeling there will be a lot more twists and turns that come out. I'm just so stuck on Ilona being the key here but must say you all share very valuable thoughts and insights and I appreciate them all!

 

[SDHELPS]

I usually just lurk here, but today I wanted to say this...please pardon the length...I just get a feeling that CM committed the murders as a part of an assassin fantasy, like a game that he thought he was capable of being successful in; and the murderers' plan was very brazen - taking out 3 people, stealing a car, stealing phones and car keys, approaching IF in the mall, and leaving 2 bodies without much escape time -and he almost got away with it! However, his actions after the murders seem so fractured and got him caught....driving through the checkpoint with an unregistered weapon and an unlawful silencer; acting so unstable at the checkpoint that they call to check on his family; driving GB's car (most probably with GB's bloody body in the front seat or trunk), (or having an alive, kidnapped, GB drive) 100 miles; leaving GB's car and body in such an open area; leaving DNA and hair at the scene in Riverside; keeping the murder weapon;his demeanor in court - he looks like he is mentally and emotionally spent. He took a lot of risks beyond the actual murders... It's like he was so wrapped up in the "murder plan" that he didn't think out a "post-murder plan." Additionally, I believe there was a reason they were targeted, whether a paid hit, drug-related, or an obsession by a mad man, I don't think GB, SB, and IF were random victims - he sought out IF in the mall after GB was already unaccounted for. As far as GB's body and car being left in a public parking lot, after missing for weeks...I wonder that keeping the car and GB's body hidden drove weak CM a little crazy (or crazier!), having to deal with the reality of a decomposing body, he "lost it,"based on his (previously mentioned above) fractured behavior. That is when he began to come apart and make mistakes. Remember, he was stopped at the checkpoint and acted odd the day after GB was located. And, as far as a possible obsession, could it have been GB who was the object of the obsession? I say that because it was GB who CM kept with him, not IF. Perhaps CM saw GB as having everything CM didn't, even if from afar. SB and IF almost seem like (pardon me) "collateral damage." They would raise the alarm, already were, actually, by recognizing GB missing and making calls to locate him. I also ponder that CM took the phone and keys from SB before IF even came out from work, like in a staged robbery, to make sure he stayed there, what else could SB do but wait for IF? Would explain why they stayed in the parking lot so long. I have wondered if CB attempted to abduct IF before she got to the car, and she ran, thus 2 gunshot wounds. SB wouldn't have been able to follow or call immediately for help and GB in the trunk could have helped control her.
Further, CM just doesn't seem like a gang-banger to me, but more a person who was disillusioned regarding own capabilities. He either accepted a "hit" or had his own reasons, and he miscalculated his own abilities. This case just reminds me so much of some of the crazy Dungeons and Dragons murders we had during the '80's (some rightfully linked, many not), and gaming has become so much more gory and violent than that era. People believe they can drive like in video games and movies, shoot like in video games and movies, and carry out plans like in the movies, referencing CM's "assassin" passwords and top 50 assassin movies he linked. I'm not anti-gamers, etc., but I think CM is a weak person and fantasized about being revered as a "Jackel" of some sort, if only in his own mind. He does not look mentally stable to me. He looks emotionally and mentally malleable and flat...
MOO..and thanks for listening!

Thank you for joining the conversation Philigumbo :goodpost:

 

[jggordo]

The thing that I keep coming back to is why Ilona called all the different hospitals and jails while waiting, after getting off work. Sal came to pick her up. All in all Gianni was only MIA at that time for 2 hours. Not a case that would usually send someone into a frenzy to call jails and hospitals. Even though Sal was there to calm her fears, yet didn't. IMO there must have been some reason to FEAR that something BAD could have happened to Gianni in the last two hours. And in the end SOMEONE wanted to make sure they could not share that fear and who from.

JMO