Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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JMO and i'm no radiologist but it looks to me like her brain has pretty much liquefied in the middle. Part of the corpus callosum has been turned into a puddle and the rest looks pretty abnormal too.

The part that appears to be gone is the cerebral cortex, the part of the brain responsible for intelligent thought. Even if she was not brain dead, everything she supposedly has done are brain stem reflexes.

You're right, the rest of the brain does look profoundly abnormal. I'd be interested in seeing if any of the MRIs have shown any blood flow to the brain.
 
It goes on and on.. Has anyone proven yet there's 100% NO brain activity?

Six doctors have confirmed there's no blood flow to the brain. With no blood flow there can be no brain activity.

The cases you provided are not in the same category. If you are missing a part of the brain from birth other parts can sometimes compensate for it, a phenomenon known as plasticity. Parts of the brain - even an entire hemisphere - can be removed and the person can still live, but in a case like that, they still have half the entire brain (they will be paralyzed on the removed side, though). Not the same thing as a dead brain.

What happens when blood flow is cut off to something as small as a finger? If blood flow is gone for long enough, it will die. That's what happened here.
 
Also, a few months back (middle of August) the New Beginnings Community Center ( the place run by the hairdresser) posted a facebook public facebook message that said ""AWESOME NEWS......... NEW BEGINNINGS FAMILY!!! JAHI IS GOING HOME!!!! New Beginnings wants to help Jahi and her family "set up house". EVERYTHING IS NEEDED..........EVERYTHING!!! From bedding to "Back - to- school clothes". We will start loading a box truck on Wednesday of this week & will be packing up until Friday. We'd like to collect gift cards and GAS CARDS for Jahi's family too. Please call ******* - if you can HELP with some items, resources or can help load the truck!!" (Those are their capitals and punctuation, not mine)http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_26354881/reports-that-jahi-mcmath-is-coming-home-are

The page was flooded with many less than kind comments and was taken down and Dolan spoke out saying that Jahi's mother had not asked for anything and was not going home but NBCC did gather stuff quietly even though they erased their post. I'm not understanding why all the specific stuff was mentioned like bedding, school clothes and gascards???? Jahi certainly isn't going to school! It seems like the family wants the public and gov't to pay for all of their needs for the rest of their lives.

I do believe Jahi did leave the hospital in NJ around that time and went "home" although the circumstances have never been revealed.

(Respectfully snipped for focus.)

The date on this story and the events of the New Beginnings place posting the "pack the truck" request is 8-18-2014.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_26354881/reports-that-jahi-mcmath-is-coming-home-are

At the Dolan Law Firm press conference, it was discussed that Jahi has been at a private home for "about a month." Additional details given are that Mrs. Winkfield's younger daughter, Jahi's youngest sibling, has moved to NJ to be closer to her mother. I was actually very glad to hear about that. I'm very glad the child is again with her mom during this awful and trying time.

Jahi's youngest sibling is elementary school aged, and used to attend the same charter school (E.C. Reems Academy) Jahi attended. That school has been having some serious academic and financial difficulties, covered in the press, at the end of the last school year.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/school-leaders-consider-plan-close-oakland-charter/nf83m/

After more than an hour of testimony, though, the board denied the renewal of the school's charter, citing low academic performance, low enrollment and fiscal problems.

It seems likely, piecing together the info, that Jahi went home from the St. Peter Hospital to the private living situation with her mother and step father, and the younger sibling joined them, just in time for a new school year. I think it's possible the "back to school" clothes and school supplies asked for by NBCC were potentially intended for the younger sibling starting school in NJ, not for Jahi. (Also could be why Dolan was immediately on NBCC to say they had made a mistake.)

ETA: Add to this that there was some animosity toward the McMath family among the administration and the other families at E.C. Reems, after the forced "give Jahi a diploma or else we will disrupt the graduation ceremonies" events of last spring. (Paraphrase of tweets by Uncle Omari Sealey. Followed by gleeful bragging that he had successfully forced/ persuaded/ extorted E.C. Reems to give his niece a diploma.... that was actually a certificate of attendance, in the end.)
 
K_Z,

I have a couple of questions that perhaps you can answer. i have looked online and not found a satisfactory answer to these.

What is the possibility of a brain Jahi being able to hear? Her mom says Jahi responds to her voice, listens to Chris brown music, etc. Can you explain medically why this isn't likely or why it is not possible?

In all of the pics of Jahi since death, her head is usually covered with a fleecy blanket around her head with only her face. I have seen statements where he mother state Jahi's room is always cold. But she also say that Jahi maintains her own temp so why so many blankets. Why not turn up the thermostat? I had heard in cases of newly brain injured patients that they kept the rooms cool to slow down metabolic processes. Is that what might be going on there and is that even useful at this point? What other reason would there be for the room to be so cold? Is her head just cold due to the lack of blood to the brain?

About her starting her period.. Is it possible that she is being give any "bioidentical" hormones. It's likely that her mom wouldn't consider that a "drug" since she claimed Jahi is on any drugs (or a minimal amount, I forget which) and her mom could just consider that a "supplement". Would going on a bioidentical hormone like that start menarche or support the development of puberty?
 
K_Z,

I have a couple of questions that perhaps you can answer. i have looked online and not found a satisfactory answer to these.

What is the possibility of a brain Jahi being able to hear? Her mom says Jahi responds to her voice, listens to Chris brown music, etc. Can you explain medically why this isn't likely or why it is not possible?

In all of the pics of Jahi since death, her head is usually covered with a fleecy blanket around her head with only her face. I have seen statements where he mother state Jahi's room is always cold. But she also say that Jahi maintains her own temp so why so many blankets. Why not turn up the thermostat? I had heard in cases of newly brain injured patients that they kept the rooms cool to slow down metabolic processes. Is that what might be going on there and is that even useful at this point? What other reason would there be for the room to be so cold? Is her head just cold due to the lack of blood to the brain?

About her starting her period.. Is it possible that she is being give any "bioidentical" hormones. It's likely that her mom wouldn't consider that a "drug" since she claimed Jahi is on any drugs (or a minimal amount, I forget which) and her mom could just consider that a "supplement". Would going on a bioidentical hormone like that start menarche or support the development of puberty?


I'm not KZ but I had wondered about the hormones too, as Defina & co. are involved and IIRC one of the IBRF talking points is giving the braindead and the comatose a cocktail of nutrients and supplements or what they call "neuromarkers" to normalize their chemistry. Some of their articles also mention hormones in this context (but I don't remember seeing the specifics).

As far as Jahi being able to hear and understand and react to commands, we know that she wasn't able to demonstrate that ability in any of the brain death exams she had last December. (And this is just MOO but I think she probably still isn't able to do so in an exam, as they're apparently not quoting doctor's statements saying she was able to follow commands in their presence but relying on a video from May)

The inner ear is supplied by the internal auditory artery, which is usually a branch of the anterior inferior cerebellar artery
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/714338_2

Anterior inferior cerebellar artery in turn is usually a branch of basilar artery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_artery

Basilar artery is part of brain circulation, and the scans demonstrated that Jahi had no detectable brain circulation in December.

So it would seem to me that the circulation to her inner ear must have been compromised too. So if the receptors in her inner ear died because of insufficient circulation that would be the end of the story as far as listening to words and music goes.

If, however, the receptors in her ear and the origins of the auditory nerve somehow survived the initial stages, there are still several bridges to cross.

This sound information, now re-encoded, travels down the vestibulocochlear nerve, through intermediate stations such as the cochlear nuclei and superior olivary complex of the brainstem and the inferior colliculus of the midbrain, being further processed at each waypoint. The information eventually reaches the thalamus, and from there it is relayed to the cortex. In the human brain, the primary auditory cortex is located in the temporal lobe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_system

The auditory information is relayed through brainstem and midbrain structures, and we know that these structures have been severely damaged because Jahi lost her brainstem reflexes, her ability to control her breathing and because the MRI scans show damage. So that could be the end of story as far as being able to hear and react to commands.

OK but suppose that the auditory information somehow crossed this bridge and is relayed to the auditory cortex. The first stage is perceiving and differentiating the sounds and the neurons in the primary auditory cortex need to be somewhat functional in order to achieve this.

Let's suppose this system has survived the severe anoxia Jahi's brain was put through. Maybe the fish oil worked and her brain can still hear and differentiate between sounds. This is still not enough to understand commands, however, as the information needs to be relayed to areas that are more involved in receptive comprehension of language, eg. Wernicke's area which is also in the temporal lobe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_processing_in_the_brain

The right and the left hemisphere process different aspects of spoken language input and for these to be integrated signals need to be exchanged between the hemispheres. I think we can take it for granted that this is impossible because Jahi's corpus callosum seems to have been turned into fluid. Interhemispheric connections are not absolutely necessary in order to understand language but it is for some responses that need to coordinate between the sides. So theoretically if she has her primary language areas on the left like most people but the corpus callosum is damaged she could more easily respond by moving her right foot than her left foot in response to a verbal command (assuming both right and left motor areas are equally functional).

If we hypothesize that this speech processing system somehow survived the prolonged anoxia and lack of circulation and she can understand commands, it still doesn't mean that she can follow them. For that she needs some areas in the motor cortex in the parietal lobe to be functional, and connected to the language processing areas in the temporal lobe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_cortex

-the primary motor cortex is the main contributor to generating neural impulses that pass down to the spinal cord and control the execution of movement. However, some of the other motor cortical fields also play a role in this function.
-the premotor cortex is responsible for some aspects of motor control, possibly including the preparation for movement, the sensory guidance of movement, the spatial guidance of reaching, or the direct control of some movements with an emphasis on control of proximal and trunk muscles of the body.
-the supplementary motor area (or SMA), has many proposed functions including the internally generated planning of movement, the planning of sequences of movement, and the coordination of the two sides of the body such as in bi-manual coordination.
-The posterior parietal cortex is sometimes also considered to be part of the group of motor cortical areas. It is thought to be responsible for transforming multisensory information into motor commands, and to be responsible for some aspects of motor planning, in addition to many other functions that may not be motor related.
-The primary somatosensory cortex, especially the part called area 3a, which lies directly against the motor cortex, is sometimes considered to be functionally part of the motor control circuitry.

There could be simple uncoordinated movement such as foot twitch without involvement from the areas involved in the more complex control but I think to change verbal commands into motor movements she needs the areas in the primary motor cortex to be functional and possibly some input from the frontal/ premotor areas to give her the impulse/motivation to follow the command and initiate the motor response.

Now, if we hypothesize that all of this works and her brain can initiate a motor program to move her foot in response to a command, this still doesn't mean that she can move her foot. The motor response must be relayed to the spine and further to the muscles. Guess where it must go first?

Yes, you're right, through the brainstem...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramidal_tracts
And we can infer there is serious damage to the brainstem because there were no brainstem reflexes in the brain death examinations and because she does not appear to have improved much in this respect if she's still dependent on the ventilator, and because it looks awful in the scans.

Sometimes there are people who have specific brainstem injuries but whose consciousness has been spared. However, what they are claiming Jahi can do does not fit this category since the locked-in patients are not able to respond to motor commands because the brainstem injury disrupts the motor pathways and voluntary movement becomes impossible. If they said she could move her eyes or blink... but they're saying she can move her foot. Not LIS then. (Also, they should have cortical EEG activity and detectable brain circulation.)
http://brainfoundation.org.au/medical-info/205-locked-in-syndrome-lis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome

But let's say the pyramidal tracts somehow escaped the anoxia from the brain circulation shortage that lasted at least two weeks, and are miraculously functional, and Jahi has voluntary movement, then the information can probably safely travel through her spinal cord and relay information to the lower motoneurons. Then she can move her foot in response to a verbal command.

Anyway, this all needs a complex network of neuronal connections and it generates electrical activity.
JMO and I'm no EEG technician but if Jahi has enough consciousness and brain activity to move her foot in response to a spoken command she must have several functional brain areas that are exchanging information. So there should be clear EEG activity, however abnormal, not just something low level that is barely there.


Sorry for the long post but this is why I think it's more likely that the foot twitching was a randomly timed spinal reflex than the result of Jahi understanding her mother's words. It would be wonderful to be proved wrong but it just seems impossible given that she had at least two weeks of severely compromised or not-there brain circulation. We know from the people who have a stroke, a cardiac arrest, drown or choke etc. that they must act very fast in the ER if they want to stop the damage to the brain. The brain can be damaged in a matter of minutes without circulation, and if you have a stroke and arrive to the ER several hours after the symptoms started it may already be too late to do anything to stop the damage (removing the clot and restoring the circulation won't help as the damage already occurred irreversibly).
 
K_Z,

I have a couple of questions that perhaps you can answer. i have looked online and not found a satisfactory answer to these.

In all of the pics of Jahi since death, her head is usually covered with a fleecy blanket around her head with only her face. I have seen statements where he mother state Jahi's room is always cold. But she also say that Jahi maintains her own temp so why so many blankets. Why not turn up the thermostat? I had heard in cases of newly brain injured patients that they kept the rooms cool to slow down metabolic processes. Is that what might be going on there and is that even useful at this point? What other reason would there be for the room to be so cold? Is her head just cold due to the lack of blood to the brain?

About her starting her period.. Is it possible that she is being give any "bioidentical" hormones. It's likely that her mom wouldn't consider that a "drug" since she claimed Jahi is on any drugs (or a minimal amount, I forget which) and her mom could just consider that a "supplement". Would going on a bioidentical hormone like that start menarche or support the development of puberty?

Snipped for focus.

First, many thanks to Donjeta for the time and effort writing the excellent response, and well researched answer to why Jahi can't hear or produce voluntary movement. Thank you! Awesome post!

As to the second and third parts of your question, temperature control, and reproductive maturity.

First, I am not a radiologist or a neurologist, but I'm a health professional, and can see gross/ macroscopic structures on a brain MRI image. Jahi's image has such dramatic destruction of midbrain and brain stem structures that pretty much anyone with a little education can see what "isn't" there. This is not subtle damage that could only be read by a highly educated neurologist or radiologist. It's dramatic, obvious, and horrific, if you have any basic understanding of brain function.

Jahi's hypothalamus (along with the thalamus, pons, midbrain, and other central brain structures) appears to be essentially "missing" (necrosed) in the MRI image from the press conference. One of the things the hypothalamus does is regulate temperature. It is well known that brain dead patients (newly brain dead, still in ICU) have difficulty regulating internal temperature. They become "poikilothermic" (take on the ambient temperature).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalamus

http://www.healthline.com/human-body-maps/hypothalamus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midbrain

Here is a discussion of poikilothermia in patients with high spinal cord injury. As Dr. Shewmon has noted in his writings over the years, the physiological qualities of brain dead individuals very closely mirrors that of individuals with high spinal cord injury. So, a layer of thick blankets helps insulate, and helps with body temperature regulation. Many body functions (both at the organ level, down to the cellular level) are compromised if the core temperature is too cool, and being too cool, and brain dead, leads to clotting in the microvasculature, increased areas of infection, etc.

http://apparelyzed.com/temperature.html

As for Jahi beginning her menstrual periods, I've written upthread about this. I'll copy that part here.

I also wanted to just touch base briefly on Dolan’s team’s comments that Jahi’s hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis must somehow be intact or functional, since Jahi has had menarche (started her first period.) I think this is an absurd statement, as it’s pretty obvious from their own MRI image flashed up that the pituitary and hypothalamus are “gone”. (Not just damaged, but essentially absent, from necrosis.)

We have to remember that Jahi was a relatively normal, but very overweight, 13 year old adolescent when the events of last December happened. She was on the verge of menarche when she became brain dead, and had obvious breast development in pictures-- she was well into puberty. That means that until she was brain dead, her hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis was intact and presumably functioning normally.

Additionally, her excess body fat would have made her reproductive system somewhat more responsive to endogenous estrogen, which is also produced by fat tissue, as well as reproductive organs. There are studies of children who have experienced traumatic brain injury, with damage to the hypothalamus and the hypothalamic- pituitary- gonadal axis, and still experienced precocious puberty.

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(87)80497-3/abstract

I don’t pretend to understand all of the endocrine issues at the level of a specialist physician or scientist, but I know enough to understand that reproductive systems can continue to function in catastrophically brain injured, as well as brain dead individuals, who were previously normal before the traumatic injury. We see brain dead pregnant women being maintained for varying lengths on life support measures to gestate the end of a pregnancy to viability for the fetus. We also saw Marlise Munoz in Texas, at the end of the first trimester, be maintained on life support for weeks to months, after suffering brain death, and the uterus and fetus continued to grow (although profoundly abnormal at the time Marlise was removed from life support, by reports).

Even the young boy, TK, who was brain dead from meningitis at age 4, for 20 years, went on to develop some secondary sex characteristics, such as pubic hair, and descended testicles. His brain was a small lump of calcified tissue at autopsy, with no discernible structures grossly, nor any neurons microscopically. He also experienced symmetric growth over the years (weighed 75 kg/ 150 pounds at autopsy), with the exception of his skull, which remained microcephalic, since there was no brain growing inside. Disturbing to read, but his brain swelling initially was so severe, the closed cranial sutures actually split open from the inside. Interestingly, his skull was 2.5 cm thickness on the edges (that’s one inch!) at autopsy. That suggests that there are some corporal mechanisms in children and adolescents for some parts of reproductive maturity to occur, in the absence of hypothalamic- pituitary- gonadal axis function. The hypothalamus is also part of the growth hormone feedback system, and patient TK continued to grow symmetrically, in the absence of a hypothalamus and pituitary.

So, I don't think it's strange or unusual that Jahi's body may have achieved menarche. She was essentially at the point of menarche when brain death occurred. I don't think it's necessary for the hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis to be intact for the body to begin menstruation, nor is it evidence of brain function. Lots and lots of female patients with severe brain damage and brain dysfunction continue to menstruate.

Oh-- one other little detail about costs and expenses in the care of Jahi. I had thought NW claimed $200/ month in vitamins and fish oil. She actually tweeted it is $240 a WEEK. She may believe that this expense is necessary, and is free to spend her money on that-- or donated money. But $1000/ month on vitamins for a brain dead teen, for months on end, seems kind of excessive to me. There is no scientific evidence that there is any benefit to this regimen. That is one area that could easily be reduced if there aren't funds to cover it. Or maybe the Internatonal Brain Research Institute, Philip Defina, and his colleagues, could provide the funds for this therapy, since it is only their "advanced care protocol" that advocates the regimen.

http://www.ibrfinc.org/media/IBRF_PRESS_RELEASE-Retrospective.pdf

http://ibrfinc.org/current_research.htm
 
Well. Thank you for some informative responses. Albeit some were kind of snarky in tone, which doesn't help much in making your point, just FYI.

Backing slowly away from this thread, now.
 
Swampmama, I missed answering your question about therapeutic hypothermia in brain injury. We are pretty much past the point, by 9 months or so, of any benefit for therapeutic hypothermia for Jahi. It's useful in the early hours and days after cardiac arrest, and brain injury. At this point, 9+ months after the initial injury, the negative effects of hypothermia would be far more adverse for her body's continued functioning than any protective benefits.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3246360/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_hypothermia

http://www.intechopen.com/books/therapeutic-hypothermia-in-brain-injury
 
Even the young boy, TK, who was brain dead from meningitis at age 4, for 20 years, went on to develop some secondary sex characteristics, such as pubic hair, and descended testicles. His brain was a small lump of calcified tissue at autopsy, with no discernible structures grossly, nor any neurons microscopically. He also experienced symmetric growth over the years (weighed 75 kg/ 150 pounds at autopsy), with the exception of his skull, which remained microcephalic, since there was no brain growing inside. Disturbing to read, but his brain swelling initially was so severe, the closed cranial sutures actually split open from the inside. Interestingly, his skull was 2.5 cm thickness on the edges (that’s one inch!) at autopsy. That suggests that there are some corporal mechanisms in children and adolescents for some parts of reproductive maturity to occur, in the absence of hypothalamic- pituitary- gonadal axis function. The hypothalamus is also part of the growth hormone feedback system, and patient TK continued to grow symmetrically, in the absence of a hypothalamus and pituitary.


Thanks for the informative post :)
One small correction: TK, the boy who was brain dead for 20 years after meningitis can't have grown much if at all after he became braindead. Yes, he weighed 70 kg at his autopsy but he was 104 cm tall which is about the height of an average four year old (about three feet five inches)

http://www.hods.org/pdf/Long Survival Following Baterial Meningits-Associated Brain Destruction1.pdf
 
I'm not KZ but I had wondered about the hormones too, as Defina & co. are involved and IIRC one of the IBRF talking points is giving the braindead and the comatose a cocktail of nutrients and supplements or what they call "neuromarkers" to normalize their chemistry. Some of their articles also mention hormones in this context (but I don't remember seeing the specifics).

As far as Jahi being able to hear and understand and react to commands, we know that she wasn't able to demonstrate that ability in any of the brain death exams she had last December. (And this is just MOO but I think she probably still isn't able to do so in an exam, as they're apparently not quoting doctor's statements saying she was able to follow commands in their presence but relying on a video from May)


http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/714338_2

Anterior inferior cerebellar artery in turn is usually a branch of basilar artery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_artery

Basilar artery is part of brain circulation, and the scans demonstrated that Jahi had no detectable brain circulation in December.

So it would seem to me that the circulation to her inner ear must have been compromised too. So if the receptors in her inner ear died because of insufficient circulation that would be the end of the story as far as listening to words and music goes.

If, however, the receptors in her ear and the origins of the auditory nerve somehow survived the initial stages, there are still several bridges to cross.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_system

The auditory information is relayed through brainstem and midbrain structures, and we know that these structures have been severely damaged because Jahi lost her brainstem reflexes, her ability to control her breathing and because the MRI scans show damage. So that could be the end of story as far as being able to hear and react to commands.

OK but suppose that the auditory information somehow crossed this bridge and is relayed to the auditory cortex. The first stage is perceiving and differentiating the sounds and the neurons in the primary auditory cortex need to be somewhat functional in order to achieve this.

Let's suppose this system has survived the severe anoxia Jahi's brain was put through. Maybe the fish oil worked and her brain can still hear and differentiate between sounds. This is still not enough to understand commands, however, as the information needs to be relayed to areas that are more involved in receptive comprehension of language, eg. Wernicke's area which is also in the temporal lobe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_processing_in_the_brain

The right and the left hemisphere process different aspects of spoken language input and for these to be integrated signals need to be exchanged between the hemispheres. I think we can take it for granted that this is impossible because Jahi's corpus callosum seems to have been turned into fluid. Interhemispheric connections are not absolutely necessary in order to understand language but it is for some responses that need to coordinate between the sides. So theoretically if she has her primary language areas on the left like most people but the corpus callosum is damaged she could more easily respond by moving her right foot than her left foot in response to a verbal command (assuming both right and left motor areas are equally functional).

If we hypothesize that this speech processing system somehow survived the prolonged anoxia and lack of circulation and she can understand commands, it still doesn't mean that she can follow them. For that she needs some areas in the motor cortex in the parietal lobe to be functional, and connected to the language processing areas in the temporal lobe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_cortex



There could be simple uncoordinated movement such as foot twitch without involvement from the areas involved in the more complex control but I think to change verbal commands into motor movements she needs the areas in the primary motor cortex to be functional and possibly some input from the frontal/ premotor areas to give her the impulse/motivation to follow the command and initiate the motor response.

Now, if we hypothesize that all of this works and her brain can initiate a motor program to move her foot in response to a command, this still doesn't mean that she can move her foot. The motor response must be relayed to the spine and further to the muscles. Guess where it must go first?

Yes, you're right, through the brainstem...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramidal_tracts
And we can infer there is serious damage to the brainstem because there were no brainstem reflexes in the brain death examinations and because she does not appear to have improved much in this respect if she's still dependent on the ventilator, and because it looks awful in the scans.

Sometimes there are people who have specific brainstem injuries but whose consciousness has been spared. However, what they are claiming Jahi can do does not fit this category since the locked-in patients are not able to respond to motor commands because the brainstem injury disrupts the motor pathways and voluntary movement becomes impossible. If they said she could move her eyes or blink... but they're saying she can move her foot. Not LIS then. (Also, they should have cortical EEG activity and detectable brain circulation.)
http://brainfoundation.org.au/medical-info/205-locked-in-syndrome-lis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome

But let's say the pyramidal tracts somehow escaped the anoxia from the brain circulation shortage that lasted at least two weeks, and are miraculously functional, and Jahi has voluntary movement, then the information can probably safely travel through her spinal cord and relay information to the lower motoneurons. Then she can move her foot in response to a verbal command.

Anyway, this all needs a complex network of neuronal connections and it generates electrical activity.
JMO and I'm no EEG technician but if Jahi has enough consciousness and brain activity to move her foot in response to a spoken command she must have several functional brain areas that are exchanging information. So there should be clear EEG activity, however abnormal, not just something low level that is barely there.


Sorry for the long post but this is why I think it's more likely that the foot twitching was a randomly timed spinal reflex than the result of Jahi understanding her mother's words. It would be wonderful to be proved wrong but it just seems impossible given that she had at least two weeks of severely compromised or not-there brain circulation. We know from the people who have a stroke, a cardiac arrest, drown or choke etc. that they must act very fast in the ER if they want to stop the damage to the brain. The brain can be damaged in a matter of minutes without circulation, and if you have a stroke and arrive to the ER several hours after the symptoms started it may already be too late to do anything to stop the damage (removing the clot and restoring the circulation won't help as the damage already occurred irreversibly).

Clicking thanks just wasn't enough. This is the info that I needed and found so difficult to extract from online searches about brain dead people and hearing. Most of what I found focused on the philosophical aspect of it, including talking to corpses as they are being prepared for burial, not the medical workings of the brain and the part it plays in hearing and how brain death wipes out hearing, processing auditory input or translating input into meaningful movement.

Donjeta, I am simply in awe of your post. Amazing!! Thank you!!
 
Snipped for focus.

First, many thanks to Donjeta for the time and effort writing the excellent response, and well researched answer to why Jahi can't hear or produce voluntary movement. Thank you! Awesome post!

As to the second and third parts of your question, temperature control, and reproductive maturity.

First, I am not a radiologist or a neurologist, but I'm a health professional, and can see gross/ macroscopic structures on a brain MRI image. Jahi's image has such dramatic destruction of midbrain and brain stem structures that pretty much anyone with a little education can see what "isn't" there. This is not subtle damage that could only be read by a highly educated neurologist or radiologist. It's dramatic, obvious, and horrific, if you have any basic understanding of brain function.

Jahi's hypothalamus (along with the thalamus, pons, midbrain, and other central brain structures) appears to be essentially "missing" (necrosed) in the MRI image from the press conference. One of the things the hypothalamus does is regulate temperature. It is well known that brain dead patients (newly brain dead, still in ICU) have difficulty regulating internal temperature. They become "poikilothermic" (take on the ambient temperature).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalamus

http://www.healthline.com/human-body-maps/hypothalamus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midbrain

Here is a discussion of poikilothermia in patients with high spinal cord injury. As Dr. Shewmon has noted in his writings over the years, the physiological qualities of brain dead individuals very closely mirrors that of individuals with high spinal cord injury. So, a layer of thick blankets helps insulate, and helps with body temperature regulation. Many body functions (both at the organ level, down to the cellular level) are compromised if the core temperature is too cool, and being too cool, and brain dead, leads to clotting in the microvasculature, increased areas of infection, etc.

http://apparelyzed.com/temperature.html

As for Jahi beginning her menstrual periods, I've written upthread about this. I'll copy that part here.

I also wanted to just touch base briefly on Dolan’s team’s comments that Jahi’s hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis must somehow be intact or functional, since Jahi has had menarche (started her first period.) I think this is an absurd statement, as it’s pretty obvious from their own MRI image flashed up that the pituitary and hypothalamus are “gone”. (Not just damaged, but essentially absent, from necrosis.)

We have to remember that Jahi was a relatively normal, but very overweight, 13 year old adolescent when the events of last December happened. She was on the verge of menarche when she became brain dead, and had obvious breast development in pictures-- she was well into puberty. That means that until she was brain dead, her hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis was intact and presumably functioning normally.

Additionally, her excess body fat would have made her reproductive system somewhat more responsive to endogenous estrogen, which is also produced by fat tissue, as well as reproductive organs. There are studies of children who have experienced traumatic brain injury, with damage to the hypothalamus and the hypothalamic- pituitary- gonadal axis, and still experienced precocious puberty.

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(87)80497-3/abstract

I don’t pretend to understand all of the endocrine issues at the level of a specialist physician or scientist, but I know enough to understand that reproductive systems can continue to function in catastrophically brain injured, as well as brain dead individuals, who were previously normal before the traumatic injury. We see brain dead pregnant women being maintained for varying lengths on life support measures to gestate the end of a pregnancy to viability for the fetus. We also saw Marlise Munoz in Texas, at the end of the first trimester, be maintained on life support for weeks to months, after suffering brain death, and the uterus and fetus continued to grow (although profoundly abnormal at the time Marlise was removed from life support, by reports).

Even the young boy, TK, who was brain dead from meningitis at age 4, for 20 years, went on to develop some secondary sex characteristics, such as pubic hair, and descended testicles. His brain was a small lump of calcified tissue at autopsy, with no discernible structures grossly, nor any neurons microscopically. He also experienced symmetric growth over the years (weighed 75 kg/ 150 pounds at autopsy), with the exception of his skull, which remained microcephalic, since there was no brain growing inside. Disturbing to read, but his brain swelling initially was so severe, the closed cranial sutures actually split open from the inside. Interestingly, his skull was 2.5 cm thickness on the edges (that’s one inch!) at autopsy. That suggests that there are some corporal mechanisms in children and adolescents for some parts of reproductive maturity to occur, in the absence of hypothalamic- pituitary- gonadal axis function. The hypothalamus is also part of the growth hormone feedback system, and patient TK continued to grow symmetrically, in the absence of a hypothalamus and pituitary.

So, I don't think it's strange or unusual that Jahi's body may have achieved menarche. She was essentially at the point of menarche when brain death occurred. I don't think it's necessary for the hypothalamic- pituitary- ovarian axis to be intact for the body to begin menstruation, nor is it evidence of brain function. Lots and lots of female patients with severe brain damage and brain dysfunction continue to menstruate.

Oh-- one other little detail about costs and expenses in the care of Jahi. I had thought NW claimed $200/ month in vitamins and fish oil. She actually tweeted it is $240 a WEEK. She may believe that this expense is necessary, and is free to spend her money on that-- or donated money. But $1000/ month on vitamins for a brain dead teen, for months on end, seems kind of excessive to me. There is no scientific evidence that there is any benefit to this regimen. That is one area that could easily be reduced if there aren't funds to cover it. Or maybe the Internatonal Brain Research Institute, Philip Defina, and his colleagues, could provide the funds for this therapy, since it is only their "advanced care protocol" that advocates the regimen.

http://www.ibrfinc.org/media/IBRF_PRESS_RELEASE-Retrospective.pdf

http://ibrfinc.org/current_research.htm

Just clicking thanks wasn't enough K_Z. You have gone above and beyond all thru this thread to educate us by answering questions, breaking things down so we can understand them and sharing your education and experience with us. You are an incredible resource here to all of us.
 
I can't judge why Jahi's parents chose this route after her surgery and outcome, but this is one of the most bizarre and morbid situations ever.
 
:tos:

Posting images without a proper link (MSM, LE) is strictly against the rules, as is linking to a non-LE/MSM social media page.
 
Well. Thank you for some informative responses. Albeit some were kind of snarky in tone, which doesn't help much in making your point, just FYI.

Backing slowly away from this thread, now.
Sorry, my fault. I merely quoted you and provided you with facts in rebuttal. Some deal in facts; some do not. Here's some new facts for today:

According to the Superior Court of California, Public Records search website: https://publicrecords.alameda.courts.ca.gov/PRS/ (Click "Search by Case Number", select "Probate" from drop down box, and enter this case #: RP13707598)

- Dolan filed a 6-page motion today (served to all parties yesterday) asking for a 4-week continuance to allow time for Dr. Fisher to communicate with DeFina and Machado (who are conveniently UNAVAILABLE, as in, vanished from the earth apparently and trapped in a magic bubble of radio silence until after the "Vote on 46" day in November). He wants Dr. Fisher to tell DeFina and Machado what tests and procedures he wishes them to perform in order to satisfy Dr. Fisher's standards of BD diagnosis.

Seriously, Chris? You can't expect us all to believe that you were completely UNAWARE or UNPREPARED for the scrutiny you would receive, and had absolutely NO IDEA what standards would be put to the test here? And now you need 4 more weeks so these "world-renowned experts" can be properly educated on the world-accepted protocols for BD diagnosis, so they can THEN...perhaps...maybe...do the tests "properly" sometime in the future? I call shens...

Okay, so I started chuckling to myself because I then remembered a post on the "Terri Schiavo Life and Hope Network" page late last night from Bobby "The Swindler" Schindler, which was very cryptic. It merely says, "More Breaking News on Jahi Coming Shortly!"....and then nothing. Silence. Not a word or response even to himself. This suggested to me that little brother Bobby found out about Dolan's request yesterday and wanted to report on it, but hadn't realized Grillo didn't decide on the motion yet (the motion appears to have been possibly decided today - I'll explain my reasoning). This is funny, so just wait for it.

(I had to pay $5.50 to the great state of California to get the new documents from the website today, as I was way too eager to wait for someone else to make their donation. I have the PDF and have published it to a private FB page. I'm sure someone else will eventually come along and link it here, as I do not have an anonymous dropbox account anywhere to put it for your viewing pleasure)

So, the timeline of new motions in the case continues (in the website link I provided above), which began with the $5.50 6 pages I paid for. To make a long story short, it began with a "seemingly-friendly" request from Dolan to almost work cohesively with Dr. Fisher, out of respect for him even, as a hidden ploy to just stall for time. That got served to the interested parties late yesterday, and since it filed with the court today, I'm guessing Grillo looked at it early this morning. .... and promptly told Dolan "NO!" (I'm sure he had a few more choice words, but no was the gist of it.)

Why do I think Dolan's 6-page "Work together like Pea's and Carrots" motion was denied? Because a few motions later, Dolan submits an objection to the appointment of Dr. Fisher as the court-appointed witness.

Wait a tic? First he's asking the court to respectfully allow Dolan's dream team to work like best pals with Dr. Fisher. And now he's wanting to kick Dr. Fisher off the basketball team? Get real. He was told no to his stall tactic, and now he's wanting to stall by forcing the court to consider yet another frivolous objection.

We'll be lucky, at this point, if this even spends a single minute under the gavel tomorrow.
 
^^^Thanks to all the people who are willing to wade through and translate a lot of the legalese to those us without the inclination or ability to speak lawyer. :)

Keep us posted as you find out more.
 
I presume there are no public images of Jahi's brain when she was originally declared dead? Or from any subsequent tests? I'm guessing not as they would no doubt very clearly show the reduction in brain mass. I had a look at a "normal" MRI to compare to Jahi's and even I can see the difference....
 
I presume there are no public images of Jahi's brain when she was originally declared dead? Or from any subsequent tests? I'm guessing not as they would no doubt very clearly show the reduction in brain mass. I had a look at a "normal" MRI to compare to Jahi's and even I can see the difference....

me too
 
:confused: So 'Bay Area News Group' is not classed as MSN ?

How exactly are we supposed to know what is or isn't *MSN* ? :dunno:

Here's the page with deleted image:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaki...hi-mcmath-attorney-shows-video-he-says-proves

"DeFina, who joined Thursday's presentation by video, said an MRI shows Jahi's brain is intact and that there is blood flow to it. He said tests show Jahi does not fit the criteria for brain death, though he would not say if that means she is in a persistent vegetated state or some other state."


Her brain is 'intact?' Does not look like it to me.
 
We have so many other certified experts on Websleuths-I wish we had a certified radiologist on board!
 
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