Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

[Heroine]

That's his sister's car - the one he took to Texas and which apparently LE confirms Hannah was NOT in.

He was driving his orange car when he left the mall area, presumably with Hannah.

According to where MH was found, apparently obstacles are no problem either - there were reports of "the only way" he could have gotten there was to cross a creek, cross barbed wire fences, etc. I'll look for that article and edit.

That's what I thought, but they stated that was the car he was driving that night but I thought it was his car he was driving that night. I wish they would try to be more factual, it can be confusing.

 

[ksj3]

Does JM use a debit/credit card to buy gas and other items at a gas station or convenience store? If so, can LE look at his accounts to find out not only if/where he made purchases on September 13/14 but also about some trips he might have made if he'd been traveling around in the months before HG disappeared scouting out a place to hide his next victim.

Just a thought. . . .

Perhaps that's how they're narrowing the time gap.

Appalachiagirl - Are they still searching the Rockingham area, do you know?

I have a feeling they need to do a lot more in the White Hall/Crozet area. I haven't heard much about searching beyond Garth Rd. out that way.

 

[FindHG]

I am new here so I hope I am doing this right.
This may be a long shot, but ... JM put Morgan's body on a farm where he knew the owner's were out of town. Is it possible then that he hid Hannah's body somewhere on property owned by a long-term patient in the hospital? Even if he did not have time that night, he could have moved it there later that week.

You're right, that is possible. He'd know about people passing away, about their properties. I think you should call the tip line.

 

[human]

Since you and Appalachiagirl are locals, I will pose this question to both of you. I have mentioned edit previously but didin't seem to get a response. Last week a WS poster mentioned that JLM had posted to his FB a comment about spotsylvaniagreenways.com. I don't recall what JLM's comment was but it was pasted from his FB to this forum. I am not familiar with the area as I've only visited Virginia once, so I turn to those who are familiar with the various areas. I AM curious if we should pay attention to the fact that Jesse commented about the area? I say yes because to me it says he is either familiar with the area or has an interest in it for some reason. From what I have read here, he has always been the outdoorsy type. So I went to this site (I suggest all posters do the same) and found that it has several areas (Salamander Loop, and other trails) that have easy access and dense woods with walking trails throughout which might be the very the of area he chose. I believe the area is about 60 miles from Charlottesville and is in Frederericksburg. Guided tours of Salamander Loop are given the second Sunday of each month. Volunteers give the tours. There is a form to fill out to become a volunteer. They attend classes and then become qualified masters. Who knows, JLM might even BE a volunteer there. It just seems like an area that Jesse would have been interested in long before September 13th. If, for example, JLM didn't pre-plan his attacks he probably didn't pre-select a site, but when the time came that he needed a location, this area might have popped into his mind. There are creek beds and the Ni River Trail as well as Salamander Loop (and others).

As a local, do you feel this area would be a feasible place for LE to search. And though we have no way of knowing how JLM thinks, he "might" think leaving a body in an area that is open to the public would take any focus off of him "specifically", thinking a defense could be it could have been anyone who accessed the area.

Could you send in the tip please!! It is excellent!

I am not sure they have someone scouring his FB

 

[Paulette]

Has this been posted? And I thought he was driving his car that night?
http://www.wric.com/story/26744235/police-trace-timeline-of-jesse-matthew-on-last-night?clienttype=generic&smartdevicecgbypass

She was never in the blue car. Her DNA wasn't found in it - that's my take on this info.

 

[Paulap]

True enough, although LJM's clunker would be the last car I'd try to take on these roads. Were he to get stuck, he'd have a lot of explaining to do! Plus, these roads don't start until you're out of Charlottesville.

How would a criminal choose a way to get out of Cville without detection, assuming there's an unconscious/wounded person in the car and the registration/inspection stickers are bad or stolen...? I find it rather difficult to imagine such a scenario, but here goes. Bring up a map of Cville in Google Maps to see these...

My top choices:

1. Barracks Rd. (Rt 654) west... goes right by UVa, allowing perp to tell MH he was taking her back to the dorms... short section of four-lanes but quickly becomes windy, rural 2 lane road with lots of farm/gravel roads branching off and numerous additional, lightly traveled paved roads are accessible... best way to get to Earlysville without risk

2. Rt 742 (Avon St.) south (direct exit on downtown on city streets, 2 lane, short four lane section near county jail, not much traffic at night, intersects with rural section of Rt 20, allows access to Red Hill area after a short distance

Maybes:

* Rt 250 west (back streets to access from downtown, mostly 2 lane with some passing lanes) also goes right by UVa
* Rt 20 north (have to use 250 bypass for a short distance, then 2 lane, windy, but a lot of traffic)

Here are the ones I'd avoid... in no particular order...

* Monticello Ave to Rt 20 south (Monticello Ave out of town has a lot of traffic... 2 lane mostly except for a short distance around the I64 underpass, windy road to the south... better to take Avon
* Rt 250 east (have to use busy four-lane Pantops Rd or I64 to access, lot of traffic even at night... speed traps
* 5th St. to Rt 631 south (have to use Ridge St./5th St which is four lane, and goes by the Albemarle County police station... I travel this route daily and frequently see police cars)
* Hydraulic Rd to 743 north (743 is 2 lane and really windy, but you have to use heavily traveled four lane roads to get to it)

Cville websleuths, any more? Thoughts?

P.S. (added): When I posted this, I hadn't seen Appalachia Girl's post (#249) making much the same point. Would like to hear from more area residents...

i'm still voting for 20N or 250W
know he knew people or had family in both of those places

 

[whiskers]

I wonder if JM has access to a truck. Call a friend that Saturday morning and ask if he can borrow it to move some things, etc. The perp with MH could have also used a truck to access the remote part of the farm. Just a thought. (It's very normal to ask a friend if you can borrow their truck for moving, hauling things to the dumpster, etc.)

 

[human]

He probably knew of several likely places since he so knew the areas. He'd know where he had better not take the chance.

I really don't see how he'd want to go that far either without stopping. Hannah would not have had far to go to be back in her part of town. She'd notice pretty quickly that he wasn't going there, even though not in optimum shape,....unless
she was drugged. Think about it. She is a very smart girl. She wants to get back to the Corner which isn't even 3 miles away, minutes by car. I really doubt she agreed to more than a ride home, probably a reason why she took the chance, it wasn't far at all. So it wouldn't take any time, not even 10 minutes before she would likely notice that something was wrong. Again, unless she was doped heavily, and that's where the report of that girl at Tempos who saw her concerns me.

The car does not have much room for an assault. Driving and fighting off a woman in the city right after last call would be risky, and Hannah could have jumped out of the car if she felt threatened. She had to have been compromised mentally and physically big tim to just sit there while he drove a distance.

So my guess is that she is really near Charlottesville on private property that is not well patrolled. LE can't search there and if it's neglected, maybe absentte of owner property, the owner isn't even going to bother. JM would know that public property would be searched to the inch with dogs.

If LE knows if the car had a cadaver in it or not, that could make a difference. If not, Hannah likely is very near the city. If so. if those dogs indicate a cadaverhit, and if JM has a lot of a unaccounted for time missing after this, I'm afraid she's way far away.

That LE wants to keep the search radius at 8 miles, makes me believe that Hannah left the car alive. I would really focus on privately owned property that isn't being carefully monitored and would be easy access.

I wonder if the passenger's door is modified so she could not open it

I would rather jump out on the highway then keep riding with him.

 

[human]

I wonder if JM has access to a truck. Call a friend that Saturday morning and ask if he can borrow it to move some things, etc. The perp with MH could have also used a truck to access the remote part of the farm. Just a thought. (It's very normal to ask a friend if you can borrow their truck for moving, hauling things to the dumpster, etc.)

Excellent. He actually was moving!

 

[ksj3]

Could you send in the tip please!! It is excellent!

I am not sure they have someone scouring his FB

They have this tip.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Several people have mentioned the Blue Ridge pkwy. I went to a game in cville 2 weeks ago and we took the blue ridge pkwy home. The parkway has entrance and exit booths during the day to take payment. I would think there are cameras on those booths at night. I doubt JL mathew would want to take that route although there are lots of hidden trails up there.

That is Skyline Drive. BlueRidge Parkway is clear sailing.

 

[ksj3]

Switching cars is something I've wondered, too. She'd have had to have been unconscious, though, and the car would have had to have been somewhere where no one would see him, so it's not highly likely.

If he hit 20 or 250, the possibilities are endless - between Fluvanna and Farmville.

 

[human]

You're right, that is possible. He'd know about people passing away, about their properties. I think you should call the tip line.

Excellent!

 

[Appalachiagirl]

Perhaps that's how they're narrowing the time gap.

Appalachiagirl - Are they still searching the Rockingham area, do you know?

I have a feeling they need to do a lot more in the White Hall/Crozet area. I haven't heard much about searching beyond Garth Rd. out that way.

I lI've in Rockbridge County, not Rockingham which is Harrisonburg, I believe.
I am not sure. But with the coming weekend, hunters are going to be everywhere. I think it is bow season, with rifle season coming up soon. Public National forest and even private land will be littered with hunters. I have a lease that allows hunters to hunt on my land and since they paid big money for it, they would be highly upset to think someone else was trespassing to hunt on their lease. They look for signs of this during bow season, map out where they think the wildlife are hanging around and even put up game cams. A lot of big farms and estates have hunting leases because it does help control the game population and hunters are going to be everywhere soon. I am hoping one of them will stumble upon something, even if it's just a wildlife trail that looks unusual or fresh, tracks, etc.

 

[FindHG]

My top choices:

1. Barracks Rd. (Rt 654) west... goes right by UVa, allowing perp to tell MH he was taking her back to the dorms... short section of four-lanes but quickly becomes windy, rural 2 lane road with lots of farm/gravel roads branching off and numerous additional, lightly traveled paved roads are accessible... best way to get to Earlysville without risk

2. Rt 742 (Avon St.) south (direct exit on downtown on city streets, 2 lane, short four lane section near county jail, not much traffic at night, intersects with rural section of Rt 20, allows access to Red Hill area after a short distance

* Rt 250 west (back streets to access from downtown, mostly 2 lane with some passing lanes) also goes right by UVa
* Rt 20 north (have to use 250 bypass for a short distance, then 2 lane, windy, but a lot of traffic)

so all the most potentially secluded roads out of town,

all deviations from there that would take you to

empty properties with fishing possiblities,

with one road leading in

a very very secluded clearing, enclosed by either a fence or natural topography, growth,

a densely hidden path from a single road

someplace to hide the car, or not stand out

anything else to consider, from what is known. that cuts it down to a million

 

[Heroine]

Switching cars is something I've wondered, too. She'd have had to have been unconscious, though, and the car would have had to have been somewhere where no one would see him, so it's not highly likely.

If he hit 20 or 250, the possibilities are endless - between Fluvanna and Farmville.

There is a rock quarry about 20 minutes before you get to Farmville on 460, theres also tons of back roads and old battlefield grounds etc on 460...lots of open space and woods. There's even lakes and ponds. I'm not sure which way he would be coming though. I'm not direction savvy, but I'll look it up. If he traveled to dispose of HG this could be a daunting task.

 

[jamicat]

(snipped for brevity)

I personally strongly don't believe that JM would have placed her body anywhere that would be a potential sighting area by the general public. HG case is post-MH. He knows there was forensic evidence collected in the MH case, that was connected to Fairfax. He's not going to risk HG being found this time. IMO. It's going to be somewhere on private property, or merely off-the-beaten-path somewhere. Of course, JMO.

There is some reason why LE is making this an 8 mi radius or is it by default?

I am trying to approach this by thinking about what likely happened after he and Hannah got into the car from Tempo's.

I am reasonably certain that he got her to come with him, get into his car because she thinks he will just drop her off, and it's only minutes away, is it not, where she lives, where she was partying?

She's an intelligent womna, Even drunk, I would think she'd notice pretty quickly, like within 10 minutes that something is wrong. JM is not heading to where she wants to go.

What to happen at that point of realization? JM is in that cramped, crappy car, he's a big guy, not much room to maneuver. She's a tall girl, nearly 6 feet tall in the other seat, she realizes he's not taking her home. What would have to happen to keep her in that car? How do you abduct someone from downtown Charlotteville ? Where to go, what to do?

He must have known about some places nearby. I have a feeling they are private so LE hasn't checked them. JM would likely know that these are not places LE would search. Safe from the dogs, safe from the search. Owner is one who doesn't care about the property. What places are like that within a 5-10 minute drive from Tempo at 2 AM? Has to have reasonable road to get in there given that beater car, but out of sight, and most people would not go in there. Can any one circle around Tempo and come up with a list of such places?

I wish we knew if the cadaver dogs got a hit on JM's car. If they did not, that is likely the where she is. He's impulsive, impatient, in a hurry, horney, needs to get her where ever quickly, make his score fast. I think she's near by, near Tempo.

 

[KenoshaKid]

this is just my opinion
i believe he would head out either 20N or 20S or 250E or 250W from downtown mall
there are loads of areas nearby that are secluded and very sparsely populated and even less traveled.
i would think he would go somewhere nearby where he was familiar and would already know that it was not populated
he knew 20N and 250W the most

True enough, but remember he used to live off off Old Lynchburg Rd which connects with Red Hill Rd and where he went to school (both primary and secondary school) and near where he dumped MH. He is pretty knowledgeable about the south side. Old Lynchburg Rd is a narrower country rd once you get south of Dudley Mtn Rd. Dudley Mtn Rd also connects with Red Hill Rd and is even less traveled than OLR. Teenagers like to drive up and down Dudley Mtn rd and pitch their beer cans. :^/ How old was he when he moved away from the place on Ponderosa?

 

[ksj3]

I lI've in Rockbridge County, not Rockingham

Sorry, I always confuse those two in writing.

 

[Paulap]

he spent a lot of time on 20N growing up but this is a bit more of a windy two-lane road out of town... so maybe back south on 29S near red hill where he spent time also growing up...
so many possibilites
praying hg is found soon for her family's sake!