Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #3

[Skigirl]

Did he explain how DNA from the perpetrator was evidently found on Morgan Harrington's body, after more than 10 weeks? (I admit that my speculation about possible creek waters flooding over Hannah's remains disheartens me.)

I have never heard how DNA was discovered on Morgan Harrington. Maybe semen on clothing? I don't know what conditions would be necessary for it to still be present in a fabric, but it seems likelier to be found after being stored in adverse conditions than epithelial cells, since it's viscous and DNA is abundant in it.

 

[tlcya]

Not shooting the messenger but that doesn't make sense with them being able to pull DNA in the MH case after 100+ days. I'm not saying they will be able to do so but not sure how it's 100%.

DNA from clothing and DNA from skeletal remains are two differing animals. Do we know the DNA associated with MH case came from remains and not the clothing?

 

[FindHG]

more...

Hannah Graham death investigation continues, UVA remains somber
Marcella Robertson, 13News Now WUSA9
2:35 p.m. EDT October 20, 2014
http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news...y-found-in-search-for-hannah-graham/17592541/

Suspect in Hannah Graham case indicted for 2005 Fairfax rape
Graham, 18, went missing in early October after a party near University of Virginia's campus. Search crews found human remains Saturday and are trying to confirm if they are Graham's.
By Aileen Graef | Oct. 20, 2014 at 3:00 PM
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014...indicted-for-2005-Fairfax-rape/3611413829552/

 

[Justice101]

,
CNN had a Doctor (ME) on today, did anyone see him? He named the stages of decomposition.

He said he's seen bodies do that in 4 days in the right conditions (to the bone).

However, he said unequivocally, that NO DNA from the Perpetrator would be there after 5 weeks. None, and he was clear.

Don't shoot the messenger.

So, how was DNA found on Morgan's body after 3 months??????

 

[JohnTate90210]

I have never heard how DNA was discovered on Morgan Harrington. Maybe semen on clothing? I don't know what conditions would be necessary for it to still be present in a fabric, but it seems likelier to be found after being stored in adverse conditions than epithelial cells, since it's viscous and DNA is abundant in it.

Do we know for sure DNA was recovered from the MH body site? Or was it just on her shirt that was found much earlier?

 

[Dee10]

Did he explain how DNA from the perpetrator was evidently found on Morgan Harrington's body, after more than 10 weeks? (I admit that my speculation about possible creek waters flooding over Hannah's remains disheartens me.)

hhmmm...this made wonder & not sure if I am remembering correctly but is it true LE suspect he may have revisited where MH remains were found?

 

[GhostGhost]

So, how was DNA found on Morgan's body after 3 months??????

It may not have been found on her body, or a part of the time, she may have been sheltered somewhat.

The CNN Doctor would have to answer.

It was NOT Cyril Wecht or Baden. The name did not ring a bell, but I haven't been involved with many of the other cases some follow here.

,

 

[newshound6]

Do we know for sure DNA was recovered from the MH body site? Or was it just on her shirt that was found much earlier?

Followed MH case very closely and I don't think it was ever fully revealed exactly how DNA was found on/with her remains, but...it was "common knowledge" after the discovery of her body that LE had a "cold hit" on unidentified suspect DNA from the Fairfax rape victim.

 

[JohnTate90210]

http://what-when-how.com/forensic-sciences/sexual-assault-and-semen-persistence/

Quote:

Postmortem Detection of Semen

Very little has been published about the postmortem recovery of semen from rape-homicide victims. One report found morphologically intact spermatozoa in the vagina of a rape-homicide victim who had been dead 16 days. A more recent report describes the recovery of intact spermatozoa from the vagina of a homicide victim at 34 days postmortem. This victim also had detectable p30 on the vaginal swab. No information was available in either report as to the time interval between deposition of semen and death.

A few anecdotal reports have been published describing the recovery of sperm from dead bodies. In these cases there was no history of sexual assault, but swabs were obtained at autopsy as a ‘precaution’. Little or no information was available about the time of deposition relative to the time of death. The longest reported postmortem vaginal recovery was 3-4 months. One body with vaginal sperm was immersed in water up to 2.5 weeks. One mummified corpse yielded vaginal sperm 5-6 weeks postmortem. A mouth swab was positive 4 days after death.

 

[RSC]

I thought I remembered fingernails, but can't recall for certain...

DNA from clothing and DNA from skeletal remains are two differing animals. Do we know the DNA associated with MH case came from remains and not the clothing?

 

[Conductor71]

A lot of it doesn't make sense. I read several articles about vultures. They have such a keen sense of smell that they hone in on the dead body within 12-14 hours after the animal (which is what they used) has died.

But I couldn't find anything that stated they are known to take away all the hair. Researchers aren't even sure where or how they roost. They are very reclusive when roosting.

Plus this was not nesting season so there was no need to remove hair to make nests. And it is highly likely even if they do take the hair sometimes they would take every strand.

And what is even more puzzling is the man said he saw vultures/buzzards circling on October 6th and didn't he say he smelled a foul odor?

And then we have the neighbors who said they shut their windows because of a foul odor and this was right before she was found.

While I have seen many carcasses in the road that simply disappear overtime that is due to the buzzards attacking the body but they leave the bones and fur/hair of the animal behind. It erodes away in time and disappears due to traffic going by and running over the flatten carcass shell and it gets caught up in the tires of many drivers' vehicles until it is no longer visible.

So a lot about this doesn't make sense. Especially the lack of any hair on the skull in just 35 days.

It does make me wonder if she was burned before being placed there since no flesh at all or hair was found at the site according to the officer who got a good look at the remains. He himself is puzzled. If vulture attacks happen often in that area to bodies found above ground leaving most bodies skeletonized due to buzzard activity I don't think he would have been as alarmed as he seems to be.

Why didn't anyone notice the distinct odors involved in decomposition?

 

[JohnTate90210]

The longest reported postmortem vaginal recovery was 3-4 months.

This matches my memory of a true crime book that I read where sperm was recovered from a body a long time after the murder. At the time I read it, I was highly surprised the body was so well preserved. I wish I could remember which book or killer it was. Right off, I'm wanting to say it was likely Green River, Ted Bundy or Hillside Stranglers, but I've read about a lot of others, too.

 

[Quill]

Do we know for sure DNA was recovered from the MH body site? Or was it just on her shirt that was found much earlier?

There is extensive discussion with sources cited over on the MH section of this thread. Not meaning to sound short, but there is a wealth of info over there.

 

[skibaboo]

They have the black pants, if indeed the bones are Hannahs and the pants are. There is a good chance they could find JLM's DNA, hair or semen on them. He has that big mane of dreads, it's probable he carried her at some point and will have shed a few hairs.

 

[FindHG]

Maybe it's just the way I look at things, but the whole notion that there is even the slightest chance that LE doesn't have an air-tight case against him escapes me. I see no controversy. LE has done their job and done it well. I may be safe to assume as things progress the case/s against this aberrant man grow, well, it seems like a done deal.

 

[Hillbilly]

I am pleased to see they have indicted him for his Northern Va crime, they need to charge him with anything that will keep him behind bars.

 

[GhostGhost]

'

In this case, she was out in the elements, just left out. It looks like occasionally lots of water would rush by, but then back to sun and the other elements.

People are found inside houses, basements, or buried. The way she was left was fastest for decomposition.

IF you are down to bones, there are no vaginal swabs.

,

 

[ILOKAL]

Why didn't anyone notice the distinct odors involved in decomposition?

The neighbor couple DID notice a putrid odor and each commented to the other about it. We don't have a date or time frame when that occurred nor do we know if they called in a tip. We DO, however, have another neighbor who saw a large number of buzzards behind the subject house on October 5th and reported the tip on October 6th. If it is the odors caused by the gases of decomposition that attracts the buzzards, then perhaps the neighbors who smelled the odors did so during the same time frame when the other neighbor saw the buzzards.

 

[cville_bob]

,

I was surprised to hear him say that, but he didn't mince. He used no doubts or may - he spoke decisively.

He went down the list of each stage of decomposition, but when they got to the suspect, he said this will not yield that DNA. He said it's gone.

.

Of course its perfectly possible for someone to speak quite decisively, to not mince words, and to have no doubts, and still be utterly wrong. That's the sort of self-assured, bloviating windbag that news programs seek out. If it gets you to watch, and they can tell you've watched by the people discussing what he said, then they win. If later, it turns out their expert ME was wrong, they'll simply pretend it never happened.

 

[dda]

I'll defer to experts on Virginia law, but I can't imagine that it could carry the death penalty. (If I remember rightly, the Supreme Court, a while ago, said that asking the death penalty for rape was unconstitutional, so I'd think that the death penalty for attempted murder, where someone might not suffer any sort of permanent damage, would be the same.)

I'm slightly worried at the thought that this case might be their strongest. They have an eyewitness. They have DNA evidence. With the physical harm that the victim suffered, he can't do the usual rape defense of, "It was consensual." But, we don't know what they have for the other cases. We just have to wait and see.

The statute governing punishment for attempted capital murder is

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-25