Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week beginning Oct 27, 2014 - Trial Thread #3

[Rayemonde]

I agree with Fairy on this one. It does seem far fetched. Although I don't doubt he seduced his mentally ill step mother if they did have an affair. Or a one time sexual encounter. Didn't his father confirm that? Is he still with this woman? Then again we're asking yet another mentally ill person for confirmation. It's just all so frustrating. Who knows the truth and is willing to tell it? I bet the sister does and she's not talking.

Just because his stepmom has schizophrenia doesn't mean that the illness has anything to do with her supposedly sleeping with LM! Schizophrenia doesn't make you into a sex abuser. Wasn't he supposed to have been 16 at the time? That makes him a victim of sexual abuse imo, whether he instigated it or not.

 

[Rayemonde]

BTW, we still have no idea where all of LM's money whilst he was on the run came from. According to Allard (so who knows if it has any truth in it ), he didn't have many sex clients in the run-up to the murder. So did he save up in advance? More evidence of pre-meditation? If he was on disability (was he receiving disability at the time?) and wasn't spending much then maybe he just saved up. The police mentioned credit cards, didn't they? Whose cards were they? I doubt any companies would give him credit cards given his history of credit card fraud and bankruptcy.

 

[DragonNades]

ABOUT SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS INSIDE MCDONALDS:

It seems they do NOT - BUT, there are cameras all around McDonalds. Here's an example:

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/double-murder-in-ndg-1.477325

Also in Ontario, cameras in surrounding buildings saw a potential perp going into McDonalds.

---------------------------------------

ETA:

Wouldn't you think that LE had grabbed EVERY camera on buildings near that McDonalds? I'm having a "blank out" - did LM tell LE/psych that he and JL met at a McDonalds??

Wouldn't you think that LE had grabbed EVERY camera on buildings near that McDonalds? I'm having a "blank out" - did LM tell LE/psych that he and JL met at a McDonalds??[/QUOTE]


No, I think LM said the Snowdon Metro station. I did hear reports that it was also a McDonalds. And it could have been either one. I did some Google Maps checking from LM's address.

The Snowdon Metro station is close to LM's apartment. About a 15 minute walk.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/5720...2a9df6!2m2!1d-73.627937!2d45.485432!3e2?hl=en

However, there was also a McDonalds nearby LM's apartment, at 5155 Chemin Queen Mary. It was also a 15 minute walk from LM's apartment

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/5720...8008ab9553a7!2m2!1d-73.627951!2d45.485247!3e2

And if you can zoom in on the map, it is outside of the Station Snowdon in Montreal. So, it is entirely probable that the two met at Station Snowdon or the McDonalds.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/5720...2a9df6!2m2!1d-73.627937!2d45.485432!3e2?hl=en

And back on your point if LE would have done so, well they weren't able to. The police had never figured out Jun Lin and LM had met, so they in turn had no idea any possible place where they met. Saying they met at Snowdon or McDonalds would have far fetched. Besides, it's impossible to get camera footage now, it's been two years, the footage had to have been erased

 

[DaveNP]

Can anyone think of any other murders where the PRIMARY motive was apparently to seek attention/ notoriety?

Ever heard of Colin Ireland?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201210/i-just-wanna-be-serial-killer

 

[Rayemonde]

And based on that pic of a rather young Dr. Joel Watts, and his extensive list of credentials, and his obvious dedication to fitness, I'm going with my original theory that Dr. Watts is a bit of an overachiever and has very little hands on practical experience in dealing with patients, malingering ones and otherwise.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 38s38 seconds ago
How many did you do? At Pinel, several hundred. IN career, close to 400 forensic assessments, majority court ordered. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Others are private assessment, lawyers or employer or company asks for one.

 

[Rayemonde]

No, I think LM said the Snowdon Metro station. I did hear reports that it was also a McDonalds. And it could have been either one. I did some Google Maps checking from LM's address.

I think Allard said they met at the Snowdon Metro Station, whereas Watts said it was the McDonalds next the the Snowdon Metro Station. I don't think it matters though, does it? I can't think of anything that might be on the CCTV tapes that would make a difference.

 

[Rayemonde]

Ever heard of Colin Ireland?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201210/i-just-wanna-be-serial-killer

No, I've never heard of him! Thanks for the link! Interesting... Claimes he wasn't gay but pretended to be to lure these men. Pretended to be into bondage so he could tie them up and kill them more easily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Ireland#cite_note-ci-1

Apparently had a "severely dysfunctional" upbringing and was diagnosed as a psychopath.

A suspected reason for his killing of the cat was that after Ireland killed Walker and had left this previous victim's dogs locked in a separate room, he later called anonymously to advise parties to the fact that these dogs were being or had been locked up.[6] As a result the media called the killer an animal lover. He strangled the cat to demonstrate that the "animal lover" assumption had been wrong

Apparently killed a cat just to make himself even more notorious?! And posed its body with its owner's body in a sexually suggestive way.

Phoned the press and police to tell them about his crimes. Became annoyed when they did not report them or did not link them. Can you imagine what LM would have done if no one had linked him to the crime quickly enough? He'd have been writing loads of internet posts denying it was him.

This guy has more of a criminal record to LM prior to the killings though. Theft, violence, arson. I wonder if LM has more of a criminal history than we have heard about. Remember the French police saying he was apparently wanted for a rape?! That hasn't come up against since.

 

[DaveNP]

I think Allard said they met at the Snowdon Metro Station, whereas Watts said it was the McDonalds next the the Snowdon Metro Station

I noticed that too,probably wouldn't make difference,just seems odd when notice irregularities,and nothing is said (yet).

Theres few videos of Colin Ireland knocking about (nothing graphic as such,just interviews).

 

[DaveNP]

If you not heard of Colin Ireland I doubt you would have heard of Mark Martin??(He's actually from my hometown).His sole reason for 3 murders was to be Nottinghams 1st Serial Killer >>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Martin_(murderer)

 

[Rayemonde]

If you not heard of Colin Ireland I doubt you would have heard of Mark Martin??(He's actually from my hometown).His sole reason for 3 murders was to be Nottinghams 1st Serial Killer >>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Martin_(murderer)

I've never heard of him either, even though I live in the UK! Ironic isn't it, they did it to be famous but hardly anyone's heard of them.

Martin and Ireland both seemed to enjoy torturing their victims before killing them. I wonder if LM would have tortured JL if it weren't for the neighbours? I read that the first people who watched the Icepick video online complained that you didn't actually see the killing, and the body was only mutilated after death. I wonder if LM would have taken this on board if he'd had the chance to make a 'sequel'?

 

[DaveNP]

From what iv read it seems Maggotta committed most of his acts after hed already killed JL ?? Regaurdless what he did to body afterwards (whats seen in released version) is absolutely awfull,theres killing someone,then theres what he did,speechless!!

 

[Fairy]

I've never heard of him either, even though I live in the UK! Ironic isn't it, they did it to be famous but hardly anyone's heard of them.

Martin and Ireland both seemed to enjoy torturing their victims before killing them. I wonder if LM would have tortured JL if it weren't for the neighbours? I read that the first people who watched the Icepick video online complained that you didn't actually see the killing, and the body was only mutilated after death. I wonder if LM would have taken this on board if he'd had the chance to make a 'sequel'?

Because it didn't show the actual murder, a lot of people assumed it was fake to begin with.

When he was promoting the video he said that it depicted murder, he billed it as a snuff film. Before the unedited footage was shown in court, a lot of people (myself included) thought that the murder had been filmed, but the footage either showed his face or just didn't go as planned in some way, so wasn't included. But now we know he didn't film it at all.

It seems he had every intention of filming it from his descriptions of the video in posts before the murder, but either decided against it or wasnt able to for some reason. Perhaps he only had a small window of opportunity had to act quickly, didn't have time to set his camera up.

I suspect if he'd had the oppurtunity to murder someone else, he would have wanted to make his next video even more graphic (somehow). Most likely including the actual murder this time.

(P.S. Hello to my fellow UK Websleuths! :uk: )

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Because it didn't show the actual murder, a lot of people assumed it was fake to begin with.

When he was promoting the video he said that it depicted murder, he billed it as a snuff film. Before the unedited footage was shown in court, a lot of people (myself included) thought that the murder had been filmed, but the footage either showed his face or just didn't go as planned in some way, so wasn't included. But now we know he didn't film it at all.

It seems he had every intention of filming it from his descriptions of the video in posts before the murder, but either decided against it or wasnt able to for some reason. Perhaps he only had a small window of opportunity had to act quickly, didn't have time to set his camera up.

I suspect if he'd had the oppurtunity to murder someone else, he would have wanted to make his next video even more graphic (somehow). Most likely including the actual murder this time.

(P.S. Hello to my fellow UK Websleuths! :uk: )

Question then, if the actual snuff film didn't show the actual murder, did the unedited material shown in court show it?




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[Fairy]

Question then, if the actual snuff film didn't show the actual murder, did the unedited material shown in court show it?




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No, I don't believe so. They only had footage that was taken after the murder had already taken place according to reports.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

No, I don't believe so. They only had footage that was taken after the murder had already taken place according to reports.

I think the crown should focus on that! To me, to not film the murder, the actual killing means he did know that he did not want to be seen killing him on film... I know what he did film was horrendous and I am not condoning it, but I just think there is something to this, for not filming the murder.


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[LoyalSleuth]

No, I don't believe so. They only had footage that was taken after the murder had already taken place according to reports.

I think the crown should focus on that! To me, to not film the murder, the actual killing means he did know that he did not want to be seen killing him on film... I know what he did film was horrendous and I am not condoning it, but I just think there is something to this, for not filming the murder.


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[Rayemonde]

I just looked up the song True Faith by New Order and it WAS featured in the TV series Queer as Folk. The Pet Shop Boys remix was in the original British QAF, and a cover by Natalie Browne was in the Canadian QAF. But I'm guessing that the version LM used was the original New Order single, the same as was used in American Psycho?

Also, he apparently told his psychiatrist that Queer as Folk was a sitcom. I remember watching some of the British series and it was a pretty gritty, explications drama about promiscuous gay men, dealing with issues such as homophobia and underage sex, although there was some comedy in it too. It was definitely not a sitcom, so I wonder if LM ever even watched it.

 

[Rayemonde]

I think the crown should focus on that! To me, to not film the murder, the actual killing means he did know that he did not want to be seen killing him on film... I know what he did film was horrendous and I am not condoning it, but I just think there is something to this, for not filming the murder.


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I don't think that will help, because the defence will just say that it shows he didn't premeditate the murder and didn't intend to make a "snuff" film.

Apparently LM had some personal photos of Lin alive on his computer though. I wonder if they were of Lin at the flat consenting to have his picture taken? If so LM had the camera there all ready and could have filmed the actual murder. Or maybe they were pictures that JL had sent him before they met or that LM had downloaded from on online profile of him, which could help to establish how they met. Or maybe they were from a previous encounter, showing that they knew each other. I wish we had more info about these pictures.

 

[Rayemonde]

Magnotta told Watts he felt “out of control” the night he killed Lin, and that a man named Manny kept calling on the phone, asking the two men to perform sex acts, and later saying Lin was a government agent.
Magnotta also claimed Manny told him to put the body in the tub, to put things in the garbage...
Magnotta told several psychiatrists he met Manny while escorting and the client turned abusive, but the court has not heard evidence that Manny exists.

“I’m not sure at times if he is real or not,” the accused himself told Watts.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/mon...mself-a-murderer-in-email-to-sister-1.2835791

 

[Wondergirl]

Thanks for following this trial through, wsers.

I simply cannot bring myself to listen and read the absolute garbage that freak said, wrote, posted....it goes on and on and on. There is something about him and this case, that just makes my skin crawl, because it is SO evil and twisted, and it is like the worst horror story you could ever dream of in your worst nightmares. I can't even describe how it makes me feel.

Thinking of his many, many victims tonight.