Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

[Rayemonde]

Noooo, please tell me the Crown isn't allowed a rebuttal to rebut the rebuttal of the rebuttal... this could go on forever!

 

[Rayemonde]

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 35s35 seconds ago
Defence asks Watts about #Magnotta 2001 hospital record. Psychiatrist says "Drug OD" diagnosis refers to prescription drugs, not street drugs

(by the way, the report also states that LM was drug tested in Miami and no drugs were found there either)

Really?! But the Crown made out that he was a druggie because of the Miami hospitalisation :s

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 2m2 minutes ago
En 2001, #Magnotta avait été admis pour overdose à hôpital Ross Memorial. Overdose de Temazepam. Il avait pris bouteille au complet

Translation: In 2001, #Magnotta was admitted to overdose at Ross Memorial Hospital. Overdose of Temazepam . He took full bottle

(did we know he took Temazepam for his "overdose"? That seems to be his "go to" drug of choice)

That's not what we heard before! I don't remember what it was off the top of my head, but it wasn't temazepam. It think it was a different benzodiazapine.
ETA I just looked it up and before we heard that in August 2001 LM took an entire bottle of a new medication in a suicide attempt - he took 30mg Rivotril .

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from above:

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 47s47 seconds ago
Allard also says she did not identify sexual sadism in #Magnotta, nor an antisocial personality disorder, says he's not a psychopath.

EXACTLY! He's a perfectly normal KILLER of humans and animals. Lock him up! :jail:

 

[Kamille]

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta. Au tour de Couronne de questionner Dr Allard.

Translation: Crown's turn to question Dr Allard #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 1m1 minute ago
La Couronne veut savoir sur quelle base en 2001 les docs avaient conclu à une overdose de drogue médicale. #Magnotta

Translation: Crown wants to know on what basis the docs in 2001 concluded that it was an overdose of medical drugs. #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 5m5 minutes ago
La preuve au procès #Magnotta est CLOSE!

Translation: The evidence portion of the #Magnotta trial is finished!

(so we don't get Allard's answer to the Crown question :notgood: )

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 6m6 minutes ago
Juge dit au jury qu'il sera de retour mercredi prochain. Jury devrait être séquestré après instuctions finales, vendredi prochain #Magnotta

Translation: Judge told the jury that they will return next Wednesday. Jury should be sequestered after final instuctions next Friday #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 6m6 minutes ago
#Magnotta judge tells jury that the evidence is now completed. Says it's normal to now have time for legal discussions with counsel. #cbcmtl

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 4m4 minutes ago
#Magnotta jury asked to be back on Wed am. Judge tells jurors he will give final instruction on Friday,they will then be sequestered #cbcmtl

 

[Rayemonde]

Okay, I just looked in Dr Watt's report and he also wrote that the overdose was of Rivotril (rivotril is a trade name of Clonazepam).

Mr Magnotta’s next visit to the Ross Memorial Hospital emergency department occurred
on August 27th 2001 after he took an overdose of 60 Clonazepam 0.5 mg tablets
(benzodiazepine). He had been living at Harrison House, a group home for patients with
mental illness, specifically schizophrenia. The staff there had noted that he was not
behaving normally and discovered that his pill bottle for this medication was empty.
Although he was somnolent in emergency, he reported having not taken an overdose. He
was held involuntarily in hospital overnight and received activated charcoal and an
antidote medication in order to try and counteract the potentially life-threatening effects
of the overdose. At the time, his daily medications included: Olanzapine 20mg at bedtime
(antipsychotic), Clonazepam 1mg at bedtime, and Perphenazine 4mg at bedtime
(antipsychotic).

(Page 30).

 

[Kamille]

Really?! But the Crown made out that he was a druggie because of the Miami hospitalisation :s



That's not what we heard before! I don't remember what it was off the top of my head, but it wasn't temazepam. It think it was a different benzodiazapine.
ETA I just looked it up and before we heard that in August 2001 LM took an entire bottle of a new medication in a suicide attempt - he took 30mg Rivotril .

Remember that it's in Dr. Watts report that he was drug tested in Miami. So we don't know if he got that info from LM or if he got it from the actual hospital records.

I thought it was something other than Temazepam that was first said as well. Not sure if that tweet was based on what was said at the trial or if the reporter threw in that drug on their own.

That's the problem with trial by tweet.

Here are the two tweets about that exchange...note only from that one reporter

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 35m35 minutes ago
En 2001, #Magnotta avait été admis pour overdose à hôpital Ross Memorial. Overdose de Temazepam. Il avait pris bouteille au complet

Translation: In 2001, #Magnotta was admitted to overdose at Ross Memorial Hospital. Overdose of Temazepam . He took full bottle

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 35m35 minutes ago
ON peut mourir de ce genre d'intoxication, dit Dr Allard. #Magnotta

Translation: ON can die from this kind of poisoning , said Dr. Allard . #Magnotta

Clear as mud right?

:gaah:

 

[Kamille]

Okay, I just looked in Dr Watt's report and he also wrote that the overdose was of Rivotril (rivotril is a trade name of Clonazepam).

Mr Magnotta’s next visit to the Ross Memorial Hospital emergency department occurred
on August 27th 2001 after he took an overdose of 60 Clonazepam 0.5 mg tablets
(benzodiazepine). He had been living at Harrison House, a group home for patients with
mental illness, specifically schizophrenia. The staff there had noted that he was not
behaving normally and discovered that his pill bottle for this medication was empty.
Although he was somnolent in emergency, he reported having not taken an overdose. He
was held involuntarily in hospital overnight and received activated charcoal and an
antidote medication in order to try and counteract the potentially life-threatening effects
of the overdose. At the time, his daily medications included: Olanzapine 20mg at bedtime
(antipsychotic), Clonazepam 1mg at bedtime, and Perphenazine 4mg at bedtime
(antipsychotic).

(Page 30).

And it appears as though the Crown asked today how anyone can be sure he actually took this "overdose" since it was just an empty pill bottle and LM not behaving "normally" (like when does he ever?) that prompted the people at Harrison House to take him to the hospital. Doesn't sound like any testing was done to see if he actually took the drugs and didn't just flush them for attention.

Unfortunately we didn't get the answer to the question tweeted today.

MOO

 

[Rayemonde]

I have to say, I do believe that it was a genuine suicide attempt after reading the description. He denied having taken an overdose, was held against his will at the hospital and treated with activated charcoal and antidote meds. Not a pleasant treatment. When we first heard about this attempt (I think it was Allard on the stand at the time?) the witness said that the hospital does blood tests in the case of an overdose before treating the patient, to confirm what has actual been taken.

I think Allard just misremembered what LM overdosed on when she said it was temazepam.

 

[Kamille]

I have to say, I do believe that it was a genuine suicide attempt after reading the description. He denied having taken an overdose, was held against his will at the hospital and treated with activated charcoal and antidote meds. Not a pleasant treatment. When we first heard about this attempt (I think it was Allard on the stand at the time?) the witness said that the hospital does blood tests in the case of an overdose before treating the patient, to confirm what has actual been taken.

I think Allard just misremembered what LM overdosed on when she said it was temazepam.

That may be the common procedure but I guess the Crown is stating that there is nothing in the hospital records to indicate that they tested his blood to see if he had injested all the medication?

This is also LM we're talking about. He could have taken a few to garner the attention but not actually kill himself, and flushed the rest. He constantly talked about wanting to commit suicide but never actually did. Can he really claim that someone pulled him from the edge of a subway platform? Where is this person? I think I'd remember an incident like that if it were me. Do they live under a rock? They've never heard of LM?

In trudging through that report (thanks again for the link!!) I'm seeing a LOT of claims and not one person who has come forward to substantiate anything. Not one. Well other than his schizophrenic father.

MOO

 

[Rayemonde]

More about benzodiazepine overdoses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_overdose

Looks like places usually don't use activated charcoal or antidotes for benzodiazepine overdoses any more because the risks often outweigh the benefits... I would hope that the hospital did a blood test to make sure that LM had actually taken an overdose, since he denied doing so, before they used treatments that can be harmful or even fatal, but who knows. :waitasec:

 

[Rayemonde]

The "Manny" story starts on page 40 and is unbelievable. He even claimed he went to a psychiatrist in New York and got a new prescription. Not surprisingly, no psychiatrist has come forward (not to mention no psychiatrist would just prescribe medication with no history).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

Although I just spotted this in Dr Watts' report:

On February 23rd 2011, Dr. Weinstein wrote a letter addressed generally to “to whom it may concern” confirming that Mr. Magnotta has been treated for schizophrenia and that his medication included Risperidone 3 mg twice a day and Cogentin 2 mg at night.
(Page 37).

 

[Rayemonde]

Remember that it's in Dr. Watts report that he was drug tested in Miami. So we don't know if he got that info from LM or if he got it from the actual hospital records.

Oh yes, I must have skimmed over that but I found it now. I'm sure this info came straight from the hospital records, because LM wouldn't have been able to remember such detail.

The impression of the psychiatrist was that he was suffering from Psychosis, Not Otherwise Specified. Mr. Magnotta’s random drug screening was negative for barbiturates, cocaine, opiates, cannabis, benzodiazepines, amphetamines, and PCP.
(Page 38).

 

[Kamille]

Although I just spotted this in Dr Watts' report:

On February 23rd 2011, Dr. Weinstein wrote a letter addressed generally to “to whom it may concern” confirming that Mr. Magnotta has been treated for schizophrenia and that his medication included Risperidone 3 mg twice a day and Cogentin 2 mg at night.
(Page 37).

I believe that letter was for LM to start receiving benefits in Quebec. Dr. Weinstein wrote it for him even though LM had not followed up on seeing him since Aug 2010. I think LM also claimed that "Rebecca" helped him with this as well, obtaining benefits in Quebec. You know... Rebecca from TO who also moved to Montreal at the same time as LM and bought the python as a Christmas gift for her boyfriend and asked LM to keep it at his apt. (yes just another version in Dr. Watts report)

His stint in New York where he supposedly met "Manny" would have been sometime from Aug - Dec 2010 when he claims to have moved there and met Manny as a client. He also claimed that Manny was hiding his meds and that he went to a psychiatrist there in New York at the end of 2010 to get more meds. Now Dr. Weinstein claims in August 2010 he only gave him a prescription for one month. By Jan 2011, he claims after all the abuse in that apparent 4 month time period from Manny, including the first cat video and the call to Romeo Salta, he drove with him in his SUV to Miami. He also made other claims that he had no idea how he got to Miami or who he was there with.

Again...clear as mud that report is. And no one thought to clarify any of it?

:waitasec:

MOO

 

[Rayemonde]

Here's what Dr Watts' report said about LM's hospitalisations in 2003. The defence say that these hospitalisations were due to schizophrenia - psychosis but the Crown say they were due to taking crack cocaine (or possibly micropsychoses due to Borderine Personality Disorder, or possibly malingering for some secondary gain).

Mr. Magnotta was admitted to Rouge Valley Hospital from March 6th to March 18th 2003. Dr. Sooriabalan noted in his final discharge summary that Mr. Magnotta had been increasingly agitated, anxious, and paranoid because of increased frequency and intensity of auditory hallucinations prior to this hospitalisation. He was initially very isolated and would not talk to anyone. He appeared to have low mood without any evidence of a depressive illness found on further investigation. It was noted that he had minimal contact with his parents. During his admission to hospital, he was noted by Dr. Sooriabalan to be quite frightened, agitated and during the interview began swearing
at his hallucinations. He was perplexed and commented several times during his admission that people were watching him, stating: “It’s not fair, why is this happening to me ?” He was noted additionally on March 8th to have a “childish affect.” His tone of voice was described as “whiny and childlike.” He was noted on March 11th to have some physical preoccupations, specifically having “paralysis” in his legs. He described feeling like he was being watched through the window.
(Page 32).

Mr. Magnotta was admitted to the Rouge Valley Centenary Health Centre on March 25th 2003 on a voluntary basis. He had called his case manager that day stating that his roommate was watching him with video cameras. He believed that people were taking away his thoughts and he was hearing voices. One of his workers brought him to the hospital. He was extremely frustrated by his symptoms and said “I cannot take it anymore.” He had planned of jumping in front of the subway for the past few days but did not want to kill himself on account of his mother. He said that his energy and his concentration were poor. On mental status examination, he appeared to have difficulty recalling events or being able to discuss events in any detail. He had constricted emotional expression. He had partial insight. He was eventually discharged on April 7th 2003. Fluanxol (a long-acting injectable antipsychotic) was added to his Olanzapine.
During his stay in hospital, he spent most of his time sleeping in bed and did not actively take part in any programs. In addition to 20 mg twice a day of Olanzapine and 20 mg every two weeks of Fluanxol, he was also discharged with Cogentin 2 mg per day, Xanax 0.25 mg twice a day, and Oxazepam 30 mg at night (the last two being benzodiazepine anxiolytics, similar to Diazepam, Clonazepam and Temazepam). During his stay in hospital, the nursing records indicate that Mr. Magnotta commented on being afraid that his roommate would come to the hospital and tell “lies about him.” He was hearing voices at times but could not recall what they were saying. He was described as having a blunted emotional expression and having a monotone voice. On April 4th 2003, he commented that he was afraid to leave his bed because people were watching and videotaping him, especially from the windows and by the phone.
(Page 32 - 33).

 

[Rayemonde]

Oh, yes!

I invited Mr. Magnotta to clarify if he had any involvement in the other videos posted on
the Internet including the drowning of a cat in a bathtub and a cat being fed to a python.
He admitted that he had not told me about this in earlier interviews because he did not
want to talk about it, but that they had happened at the apartment previous to his move to
the one on Decarie. He said that Manny had called his friend Rebecca who had been
helping Mr. Magnotta with his escorting. He had suspected for some time that Manny
would eventually try to contact him, pretending to be a client. Manny told Rebecca that
he was sorry and that he wanted to meet Mr. Magnotta, who initially refused. She gave
Manny Mr. Magnotta’s phone number and he called. Mr. Magnotta told me that he had a
pet cat at the time, since July 2011, because he was feeling lonely. He had obtained
another cat for free in October of 2011 and the two cats got along well. He did not want
Manny to come to his apartment because he was scared that something would happen to
him or the cats, which he had named Jasmin and Kenny. Rebecca had asked
Mr. Magnotta to babysit a python that she had bought, intending to give it to her
boyfriend as a gift for his birthday. She said that she had no space for it in her apartment
and wanted to give it as a surprise. Mr. Magnotta had helped her buy the snake, giving
her $150. Initially, he had refused to care for the snake because he was scared that it
would “eat me and/or the cats.” She convinced him to help her saying that she did not
have an aquarium and had her son at her place.
(Page 46 - 47).

Sounds like Rebecca is made up, just like Manny... He probably bought the snake himself and then got bored of it and killed it or it died because he wasn't looking after it properly. And all that about being terrified of the snake, but his father told Dr Watts

When asked, Mr. Newman said that the last pet his son owned was a white boa constrictor. He saw it during his last visit to his son in Montreal and was able to hold it. Mr. Magnotta did not appear afraid of it and held it himself.
(Page 55).

I assume this is the same snake, even though LM's dad thought it was a boa constrictor and not a python. He told his dad that it was his own pet, not one he was looking after for someone.

 

[DataMonkey]

I have been following this forum for some time and I thank you all for the informed 'tweets'. It is quite frustrating at times trying to find these in the English language.

I have just finished reading Dr Watt's psychiatric assessment of Magnotta (thank you Rayemonde). What I found interesting is the mention of the Columbian featured in Magnotta's video footage. Apparently this guy is identified as a man called John Doe. I am guessing that this was a false name given by Magnotta - John Doe is the fame seeking character from the movie Se7en (didn't the producers of Cover Guy mention he looked like Doe in the audition tape?). Also a John Doe has made several comments on YouTube footage of the exterior of Magnotta's apartment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBAdRw-Iq54. This same user also links to one of Magnotta's Photobucket account (creepy) - http://s455.photobucket.com/user/coldasice19/library/?sort=3&page=1.

This court case seems full of black holes and I cannot understand how so much information that I would have deemed vital to the case has been overlooked.

My brief personal views regarding Magnotta's responsibility in the case:

I believe that LM is criminally responsible and despite having several, long standing mental health issues, I believe that he was fully aware of his actions
and that the crime itself was carefully calculated months, if not years previously. My view is that LM intended to 'go out with a bang' and although he was aware that he would eventually get caught, I think his intention was that when he did, it would be as a serial killer.

With regards to the outcome of the case, I think that the Jury will find him to be criminally responsible. There is just too much evidence to suggest otherwise. The 'trailer footage', the similarities to the movie Basic Instincts (the ice pick that was painted silver, 'Manny', etc). Not to mention so many contradictions in Magnotta's version of events. I will be completely aghast if the Jury return a verdict of NCR.

Last thing - Hi, nice to meet you all

 

[matou]

Well if that's it for witnesses then I have to say that Eric Newman will be found guilty. JMO

 

[maxfactor]

Well if that's it for witnesses then I have to say that Eric Newman will be found guilty. JMO

I agree!

 

[Tiger09]

I hope they start calling him Eric Newman again.

 

[Kamille]

I have been following this forum for some time and I thank you all for the informed 'tweets'. It is quite frustrating at times trying to find these in the English language.

I have just finished reading Dr Watt's psychiatric assessment of Magnotta (thank you Rayemonde). What I found interesting is the mention of the Columbian featured in Magnotta's video footage. Apparently this guy is identified as a man called John Doe. I am guessing that this was a false name given by Magnotta - John Doe is the fame seeking character from the movie Se7en (didn't the producers of Cover Guy mention he looked like Doe in the audition tape?). Also a John Doe has made several comments on YouTube footage of the exterior of Magnotta's apartment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBAdRw-Iq54. This same user also links to one of Magnotta's Photobucket account (creepy) - http://s455.photobucket.com/user/coldasice19/library/?sort=3&page=1.

This court case seems full of black holes and I cannot understand how so much information that I would have deemed vital to the case has been overlooked.

My brief personal views regarding Magnotta's responsibility in the case:

I believe that LM is criminally responsible and despite having several, long standing mental health issues, I believe that he was fully aware of his actions
and that the crime itself was carefully calculated months, if not years previously. My view is that LM intended to 'go out with a bang' and although he was aware that he would eventually get caught, I think his intention was that when he did, it would be as a serial killer.

With regards to the outcome of the case, I think that the Jury will find him to be criminally responsible. There is just too much evidence to suggest otherwise. The 'trailer footage', the similarities to the movie Basic Instincts (the ice pick that was painted silver, 'Manny', etc). Not to mention so many contradictions in Magnotta's version of events. I will be completely aghast if the Jury return a verdict of NCR.

Last thing - Hi, nice to meet you all

Welcome DataMonkey :welcome:

It's been quite an interesting trial for sure. And I'm still trying to read the report when I get time. It's also definitely an eyeopener. Can't wait to hear the closing statements. Well the tweets anyway.

Nice to meet you too and feel free to look around the forums for any other cases you may be interested in as well.