NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

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popsicle said:
I don't count that case, not LE related. Oh crap is going down in NY. People on the ground, LE arresting them.

To answer your question...the community assoc settled with them iirc.
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Is there a live feed from NY ? TIA
 
Harmony2 said:
The thread is open again. Race discussions are off limits. Please remember that when posting. This is not new and is standard across the board. Thank you...
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I'll just :bump: this post from half an hour ago !
 
Ray_of_hope said:
Watching Anderson Cooper and just saw the new phone video posted above with the female EMT. She had her fingers on EG's mandible and not on his neck. Did anyone else notice this?
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I did. I thought it was a weird way of checking the carotid, if that was what she was attempting to do. Putting her hand on one side of a mandible? For what purpose? Doesn't a jaw thrust typically take two hands? Or was she tilting his head back? Cuz either way, neither looked successful. What do you think?
 
Narrative should not count either way and is specifically addressed in the law and the law advises it's not to be a factor. The law also clearly states the parameters for force. It also clearly states the parameters for resisting arrest.
 
popsicle said:
Actually, he really is... there are a couple that are professional protesters.
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I mean , I'm all for protesting if you feel it's a cause near and dear to you . But if you 're a professional protester, then how can all those causes be that near and dear to you?
It's a little bit ( fillintheblank) ! kwim
 
Does anyone know how far the hospital was from where this incident took place?
 
Zuri said:
I did. I thought it was a weird way of checking the carotid, if that was what she was attempting to do. Putting her hand on one side of a mandible? For what purpose? Doesn't a jaw thrust typically take two hands? Or was she tilting his head back? Cuz either way, neither looked successful. What do you think?
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Looked to me like it was on his carotid. At about 4:10, she says something that has been edited out of the video. Then she checks for his pulse and it sounds like while she is doing that the cop asks for reassurance that she feels a pulse and she agrees with him that she feels one.
 
SStarr33 said:
Looked to me like it was on his carotid. At about 4:10, she says something that has been edited out of the video. Then she checks for his pulse and it sounds like while she is doing that the cop asks for reassurance that she feels a pulse and she agrees with him that she feels one.
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Thank you for this. You know how you can look at something several times and see something new? I have been pretty critical of her actions as I thought she didn't follow protocols that are typical in the field. I hold her and the other medical crew to a higher standard. Maybe I shouldn't.

What is interesting is that only paramedics supersede RNs in the field. Medical doctors are the only ones that can supersede paramedics in the field. That is fine with me! JMV, IMO
 
Now that we are learning details from the autopsy report a few things are becoming abundantly clear:

A "choke hold" was not applied to EG. The autopsy showed no damage to his windpipe which would be evident if he had been "choked"

The autopsy showed that blood was cut off to the brain as a result of his carotid arteries being compressed.

What these findings tells us is the officer was not using a choke hold but rather a special neck hold referred to as "carotid restraint" or "sleeper hold"

The sleeper hold which involves cutting off blood flow to the brain for a brief period is not forbidden by the NYPD in fact they are training their officers on the use of this special neck hold.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-lessons-force-lapd-article-1.1882111


For this reason alone I can see why the officer involved was not indicted. He was using a perfectly acceptable method to bring a non-compliant man who was resisting arrest to the ground.

I don't know why the autopsy report states COD as "COMPRESSION OF THE NECK (CHOKE HOLD)" when in fact there is no evidence that EG was choked. I thought autopsy reports are supposed to be very precise? I think the report should be corrected (the officer involved should insist on that). The report should state "COMPRESSION OF THE CAROTID ARTERIES (SLEEPER HOLD)"

Now that these facts have come to light the media needs to stop referring to this tragic incident as the "choke hold death of an unarmed man".
 
CARIIS said:
Imo its all getting mixed up. LE has the power to arrest somone after breaking some law. In this instance he was never placed under arrest. In order to be placed under arrest a charge must be levied. I have speed in the past, he had been selling cigs in the past. What noone has seen or heard about is FIsrt charge X. As a result of charge X the indiv then "resisited" being placed under arrest for charge.

What was he being arrested for? Anyone seen an arrest report.

Its a legal impossibility to be resisting arrest unless one is first arrested for somewthing. Throughout there was no mention that he was "caught" on that day doing what he had on some other days - what was he under arrest for?

There has been no officer x approached x after observing a cig sale to place him under arrest for x. All along the cig selling has been referred to in the past, there has been no inidcation of the reason for LE interacting with him from the onset. Can anyone hear the audio in the very beginning what was the dialog?

Reason for interaction in the first place


My take was this one was a power control issue
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Respectfully BBM

He was likely selling "loosies" Cariis. Not committing a murder, a felony, nor grabbing the officers' weapons, nor fleeing from the officers. He wasn't physically/violently harming anyone. But, yea, he was breaking the law, prob stepped into a doorway and was selling individual cigs prior to breaking up a neighborhood fight. I don't doubt for a NYC minute that he wasn't selling "loosies."

It's against the law and so is resisting arrest, which IMO he was doing...BUT

It still doesn't warrant the excessive response exhibited by NYC LE in this situation.
 
Both links courtesy Archangel7 's post from yesterday,

NY, Resisting Arrest Statute
N.Y. PEN. LAW § 205.30 : NY Code - Section 205.30: Resisting arrest
"A person is guilty of resisting arrest when he intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a police officer or peace officer fromeffecting an authorized arrest of himself or another person. Resisting arrest is a class A misdemeanor." bbm ^http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/PEN/THREE/L/205/205.30#sthash.XmAOxmeM.dpuf. ^

NY ct interpreting statute re Resisting Arrest
From crim def atty blog w quotations from NY ct opn.
"... To be clear, an arrest for NY PL 205.30, for example, can be established with an
accused merely pushing away and refusing to place his or her hands where they can be handcuffed.
Despite what an “average” person may believe, to commit Resisting Arrest,
one need not become violent or cause injury to an officer.... See People v. Cherry, 307 NY 308, 311, (1954) ".

"...a recent decision ... In People v. Coley 2013 NY Slip Op 50167 – NY: County Court, Criminal Court 2013, the defendant was accused of Disorderly Conduct ... 'impeding the flow of pedestrian traffic.' After attempting to issue the defendant a summons for his failure to leave the location, ...The police attempted to handcuff the defendant who “flailed his arms and twisted his body.”

[^My red & bold^]. ^http://www.newyorkcriminallawyer-bl...of-legally-insufficient-claims.html#more-1930 ^


Question:
does anyone here who said Mr G was not resisting arrest see his actions differently now? Any changed opinions?
Not asking whether you 'agree w law' or think it's a 'stupid law' or a 'wonderful law.'
Just curious.
 
epiphany said:
Respectfully BBM

He was likely selling "loosies" Carriis. Not committing a murder, a felony, nor grabbing the officers' weapons, nor fleeing from the officers. He wasn't physically/violently harming anyone. But, yea, he was breaking the law, prob stepped into the doorway and was selling individual cigs prior to breaking up a fight. I don't doubt for a NYC minute that he wasn't selling "loosies."

It's against the law and so is resisting arrest, which IMO he was doing...BUT

It still doesn't warrant the excessive response exhibited by NYC LE in this situation.
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Many people have been critical of the officers for making an arrest over what many consider a minor crime but the fact is the third highest ranking member of the NYPD - Chief Philip Banks (who BTW was the highest ranking black member of the NYPD) ordered a crack down on the sale of "loosies" in Staten Island this past July (just days before EG was killed).

The officers in the video were just doing what they were ordered to do by Chief Banks. Banks retired from the force a few months ago. I saw him on Anderson Cooper the other night. Of course Cooper didn't ask him about his order to crack down on the sale of "loosies". Anderson didn't ask Banks if he felt some responsibility for the death of EG. That would have spoiled the narrative I think.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/wife-man-filmed-chokehold-arrested-article-1.1893790
 
KEVINinTO said:
Many people have been critical of the officers for making an arrest over what many consider a minor crime but the fact is the third highest ranking member of the NYPD - Chief Philip Banks (who BTW was the highest ranking black member of the NYPD) ordered a crack down on the sale of "loosies" in Staten Island this past July (just days before EG was killed).

The officers in the video were just doing what they were ordered to do by Chief Banks. Banks retired from the force a few months ago. I saw him on Anderson Cooper the other night. Of course Cooper didn't ask him about his order to crack down on the sale of "loosies". Anderson didn't ask Banks if he felt some responsibility for the death of EG. That would have spoiled the narrative I think.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/wife-man-filmed-chokehold-arrested-article-1.1893790
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The new mayor has asked for a crackdown in sales of loosies as well, because it interfered with the tax base and cost NY millions of dollars.
 
Zuri said:
Does anyone know how far the hospital was from where this incident took place?
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Excellent question that has not been asked before or answered, to my knowledge.
 
Zuri said:
I did. I thought it was a weird way of checking the carotid, if that was what she was attempting to do. Putting her hand on one side of a mandible? For what purpose? Doesn't a jaw thrust typically take two hands? Or was she tilting his head back? Cuz either way, neither looked successful. What do you think?
Click to expand...
I couldn't tell on the smaller computer videos but on our large screen tv (shown on Anderson Cooper), I was aghast. This is my and my husband's (he's an MD) opinions from studying a large screen of the video. I attributed it to her nervousness with the large crowd, filming, etc. But I really don't know the scope of an EMT. (We don't even know her credentials). I just wish that medical intervention had begun then or sooner. I can't watch that video anymore. It haunts me.
 
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