Verdict watch! ** GUILTY **

[redheart]

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now 38 seconds ago
Defence says would support simple yes, it is answer to jury question. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · now 12 seconds ago
Crown gets 20 min to consult. #Magnotta

Jury to return at 1:45 for answer to question. #Magnotta

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Now I'm nervous about the jurists bilingual abilities. It is their right to receive instructions in both languages in my opinion. If they mess this up because of language issues then I will flip. JMO

IIFC, when the jury was chosen the media reported that they ALL are bilingual. (Man, I hope I'm remembering that correctly.......)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from redheart's tweets above:

Judge reads question. Refers to if #Magnotta more likely or not suffering from mental illness.

Is personality disorder a disease of the mind as a matter of law? #Magnotta

Judge wants to know what lawyers think. #Magnotta

Crown says he thinks he mentioned that last week. #Magnotta

I know, that's why you smiled, judge replies. #Magnotta

Crown has nothing to say for now. Defence says he believes answer is yes. #Magnotta

I now am so nervous I could jump right out of my skin!!

:scared::scared::scared:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Again from redheart's tweets above:

Crown can't say for now. Judge says they will have to re-read jurisprudence. #Magnotta


PLEASE.....PLEASE.....PLEASE......NOT NCR.....:jail:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

ARTICLE FROM WAY BACK; THEY ARE FLUENTLY BILINGUAL:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...-screening-could-delay-murder-trial-1.2765188

ETA:

The murder trial of Luka Magnotta may begin two weeks after its scheduled start date because the court will have to conduct in-depth interviews to ensure selected jury members are fluently bilingual.

Next week, juror candidates will be brought before the court in small groups and questioned to establish their level of fluency. Lawyers estimate each interview could take up to 20 minutes.

 

[DataMonkey]

Well that is not a very comforting question from the jury at this stage. What the ...... !?!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Well that is not a very comforting question from the jury at this stage. What the ...... !?!

Indeed! I'm becoming increasingly nervous...........

 

[Kamille]

What?!? None of them know if a personality disorder is considered "mental illness" under the statutes of the law? And they are involved in THIS case?

They'd better get a completely unbiased doctor in there to explain it to this jury.

MOO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

PERSONALITY DISORDER:

A long article to keep us occupied whilst waiting ..........

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/2/110.full

 

[DataMonkey]

Indeed! I'm becoming increasingly nervous...........

Perhaps it's just a case of needing to clarify to a member of the jury during debate, that a personality disorder is different to other mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, in that it effects a person's personality as opposed to loss of reality/possible psychotic episodes. Let's face it the whole discussion is basically based on whether Magnotta knew his actions were right or wrong at the time. Well let's hope so anyway, I would have though all jury would be clear of the differences at this point, it has been discussed in detail! Eeeeek!

 

[DataMonkey]

What?!? None of them know if a personality disorder is considered "mental illness" under the statutes of the law? And they are involved in THIS case?

They'd better get a completely unbiased doctor in there to explain it to this jury.

MOO

^^^^^ this x 10

 

[andreww]

While we're all waiting, what do you all think about the calls from JLs phone to Vancouver hotels & hostels? Did LM go to JLs apartment after the murder, access his computer and phone to delete any contact with him? We know JL responded to LMs Craigslist ad but there was no record of contact on any of JLs or LMs devices. Would it be even possible to do this? Surely there must be a way to dig this info up, or was LE just so confident that they didn't bother because of effort and expense?

 

[andreww]

Indeed! I'm becoming increasingly nervous...........

I think people here have had their minds made up about this case before it even began. Human nature to want to bring down a monster. But this case is about mental illness, nothing more. We sit here only having heard the most tantalizing tidbits, thinking we are experts. The jury was chosen because they were oblivious to the details of this case and thus are in a totally different mindset than most of the people here who no every detail, much that the jury never heard. It is impossible for us to sit here and say that this case is "obvious" because we don't know how we'd judge it if we had the same limited info as the jury. IMO its not open and shut. The defence did an admirable job given their limited resources. The crown on the other hand seemed to present the bare minimum, probably overconfident from the beginning.

 

[Kamille]

While we're all waiting, what do you all think about the calls from JLs phone to Vancouver hotels & hostels? Did LM go to JLs apartment after the murder, access his computer and phone to delete any contact with him? We know JL responded to LMs Craigslist ad but there was no record of contact on any of JLs or LMs devices. Would it be even possible to do this? Surely there must be a way to dig this info up, or was LE just so confident that they didn't bother because of effort and expense?

It bothers me to no end that JL's phone was found in his apartment and NOTHING has been said about this. And where the heck were his keys? Was his apt locked? I really think LE in this case screwed up in a big way. They got over confident that there was no way he could claim NCR and that there was already a ton of evidence against him for premeditated murder. If they didn't go through JL's apt looking for LM DNA and trying to figure out whether he did go there at any point I'm stunned. And there has to be an explanation for the phone and keys. Plus the mystery man. They didn't put enough effort into that either apparently. I see this as a very sloppy investigation IMO.

MOO

 

[DataMonkey]

While we're all waiting, what do you all think about the calls from JLs phone to Vancouver hotels & hostels? Did LM go to JLs apartment after the murder, access his computer and phone to delete any contact with him? We know JL responded to LMs Craigslist ad but there was no record of contact on any of JLs or LMs devices. Would it be even possible to do this? Surely there must be a way to dig this info up, or was LE just so confident that they didn't bother because of effort and expense?

The calls to Vancouver hotels are odd considering Jun Lin's phone was found in his own residence. That's a hard one to suss out indeed, unless Magnotta had access to his apartment and did in fact place it there afterwards. With regards to internet communication, LM used a VPN service and depending on which provider, this would be impossible to trace to my knowledge (although I am not an expert on VPN's). Everything was planned so precise by LM that I think there would be at least a second victim by now if it wasn't for the garbage men not taking the refuse when expected. Scary stuff.

 

[redheart]

https://twitter.com/sleecjad

Judge and lawyers are back. #Magnotta

Crown agrees the question to the jury should be yes. Defence still says yes too. #Magnotta

Getting the jury. #Magnotta

Jury is here. #Magnotta

Judge tells jury the answer to their question is yes. And that is all. Jury leaves. #Magnotta

 

[DataMonkey]

I think people here have had their minds made up about this case before it even began. Human nature to want to bring down a monster. But this case is about mental illness, nothing more. We sit here only having heard the most tantalizing tidbits, thinking we are experts. The jury was chosen because they were oblivious to the details of this case and thus are in a totally different mindset than most of the people here who no every detail, much that the jury never heard. It is impossible for us to sit here and say that this case is "obvious" because we don't know how we'd judge it if we had the same limited info as the jury. IMO its not open and shut. The defence did an admirable job given their limited resources. The crown on the other hand seemed to present the bare minimum, probably overconfident from the beginning.

I disagree with this personally. I came to my own conclusion after following the case and listening/reading to the evidence. My personal conclusion of 'guilty' is based on my view that a mental illness had nothing to do with this premeditated sick act.

Edit to add: Also in my view, I think if anything, people are not clued up about mental illness.

 

[DataMonkey]

Judge tells jury the answer to their question is yes. And that is all. Jury leaves. #Magnotta

^^ and no elaboration?

 

[andreww]

The calls to Vancouver hotels are odd considering Jun Lin's phone was found in his own residence. That's a hard one to suss out indeed, unless Magnotta had access to his apartment and did in fact place it there afterwards. With regards to internet communication, LM used a VPN service and depending on which provider, this would be impossible to trace to my knowledge (although I am not an expert on VPN's). Everything was planned so precise by LM that I think there would be at least a second victim by now if it wasn't for the garbage men not taking the refuse when expected. Scary stuff.

I think the calls were made as an explanation for JLs disappearance. LM admitted that he was aware of JLs connection to Vancouver, and by leaving the phone in his apartment with the last calls made to Vancouver, he was hoping to send LE on a wild goose chase to BC. Now I know LM was using a VPN, but JL wasn't. There should have been evidence, either on his phone or computer that showed a response to the Craigslist ad. Those responses would likely have been through the Craigslist message system, but there should have been at least one message. LM likely requested a phone number which he likely called via a payphone or a burner phone. There wouldn't have been much, but there should have been something. I am 100% confident that Magnotta went there and cleaned JLs apartment of evidence.

Does anyone have a timeline of what time those calls were made, what time LM left the apartment, the time it would take to travel there and the time he returned?

 

[andreww]

I disagree with this personally. I came to my own conclusion after following the case and listening/reading to the evidence. My personal conclusion of 'guilty' is based on my view that a mental illness had nothing to do with this premeditated sick act.

Edit to add: Also in my view, I think if anything, people are not clued up about mental illness.

You are also privy to a lot more information than the jury. Also your opinion may have been swayed by the likes of Christie Blatchford or whomever you happened to have gleaned your information from.