Discussion Thread #60 - 14.9.12 ~ the appeal~

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In this photo you can see there's a division in the window. I'm wondering if that black line on the right-hand side of your photo is a cord that when pulled allows either the top or bottom section of the window to open. In your photo you can see a little gizmo about 6" up from the window ledge. It's also possible it's a double hung window. If it was a non-opening window, there's no reason for the piece of wood separating the top pane from the bottom pane as it appears to be the same size as the fixed panels in the bathroom.

The gizmo are the cords to operate the horizontal wooden blinds :

A. 2 cords with wooden knobs at the end to control the pitch of the lats… the blinds are up in the photo so the lats are open (parallel to the ground) and therefore the 2 cords are of equal length

B. A double cord to control the position of the blinds (up or down)… the blinds are up in the photo so the cord is at it's longest

Sometimes a division is build for esthetics only or to save costs by buying of the shelf product instead of custom made ones… by the looks of the shoddy workmanship of the window frame versus the wall tiles, it's not that surprising

Again, there is no where to grab the window pane to to open it… and the whole thing is out of plum with the walls… I maintain that it really looks like a fixed window, IMO
 
IMO Van Vuuren's comment may add another significant piece to the puzzle: OP's character already simmering with rage, much of it barely organized and discharged into his sport, discharged into his rifle range activities, etc. However, he may have been unable to contain his simmering rage, demonstrated by public exhibition(s) of acting-out in a threatening and dangerous manner with a gun, etc. It was escalating being recently magnified by the unresolved break-up with previous girlfriend; pressures to train, unsure if he would qualify to compete at Olympics again. Speaking hypothetically, he may have been unable to organize this escalating rage into his usual coping mechanisms. Van Vuuren's comments seem significant in this context. His comments echo previous comments made in earlier threads. It seems there was a 'trigger' factor and we know OP had received 'bad news' at an earlier meeting on the 13th - not an insignificant point. This 'bad news' may have generated enormous rage which he was unable to 'organize' into words or 'contain' with his usual coping mechanisms. It would have preoccupied him IMO. It needed to be 'discharged' for him to get relief from the ever present tension. Somehow, unknown to us, his rage was triggered with RS that night, he couldn't contain it, he was cognizant enough to walk to, then reach for his gun, then preempt ricochet bullets before 'discharging' the gun - four times into a small toilet cubicle with a human being inside. RS was not his problem, his rage was. The family, friends and/or team around OP were seemingly oblivious/unaware or unable to help him 'contain' his growing rage. He had a history of poorly controlled negative emotions such as anger/aggression. My opinion only.

I agree, Fuskier. Narcissists are notorious for poor / non-existent anger management. In fact, control through anger (or merely the threat of anger) is one of the hallmarks of narcissism.
 
The gizmo are the cords to operate the horizontal wooden blinds :

A. 2 cords with wooden knobs at the end to control the pitch of the lats… the blinds are up in the photo so the lats are open (parallel to the ground) and therefore the 2 cords are of equal length

B. A double cord to control the position of the blinds (up or down)… the blinds are up in the photo so the cord is at it's longest

Sometimes a division is build for esthetics only or to save costs by buying of the shelf product instead of custom made ones… by the looks of the shoddy workmanship of the window frame versus the wall tiles, it's not that surprising

Again, there is no where to grab the window pane to to open it… and the whole thing is out of plum with the walls… I maintain that it really looks like a fixed window, IMO

Are we desperate to be having this conversation. Well, we have time on our hands so why not.

According to South Africa's National Building Regulations Part O:

"(1) Any habitable room, bathroom, shower-room and room containing a toilet pan or urinal, or any room which is a parking garage shall be provided with a means of lighting and ventilation which will enable such room to be used, without detriment to health or safety or causing any nuisance, for the purpose for which it is designed".

http://www.thedti.gov.za/business_regulation/acts/building_standards_act.pdf

If there is insufficient ventilation, artificial ventilation MUST be installed. … and it should be at least five per cent of the floor area of the room (or at least 0,2 square metres if the room is very small).

http://sans10400.co.za/lighting-and-ventilation/
 
Still curious about the bad news Oscar received at that meeting on February 13 and wanted to provide a copy of the 'What's App' messages back and forth between Reeva and Oscar from that date.

This excerpt in bold italics below is from: www.juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/oscar-trial-day17-oscar/

We are now up to the text messages for FEBRUARY 13

Reeva had spent the night before.

10:08am RS to OP – Good luck today baba let me know how things go
OP to RS – Thanks angel

(Oscar had a meeting in Johannesburg that day with a financial advisor)

RS to OP – Baba I hope you don’t mind but I came back to the house to work a bit and do some washing. It will help me a lot to get stuff done and relieve some stress. I’ll go through to Joburg at like 3pm.

RS to OP – It’s a difficult thing to try to console you baba because it’s a ****** thing and you’re a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle I can promise u that.

(Oscar says this message had to do with the financial meeting he had that morning)

OP to RS – Thank you my angel, you don’t have to my angel. Stay tonight if you’d like.

(Oscar says this means he was telling her she didn’t need to go to Johannesburg, she could stay at his place)

OP to RS – I’m just finishing off at Ryan

(this was another meeting that he had that day)

RS to OP – Thank you baba. Let me know if you’d like to spend time with M or Carl. I’m sure you maybe feel like some family tonight.

RS to OP – Angel I’m going to go home at like 6pm. Please stay and do what it is you were going to do.


Estelle reports in her post above that this very well could have involved unpaid taxes on some other real estate Oscar owned. This makes sense given he was about to buy the new house in Johannesburg and would need to clean up any outstanding real estate taxes-- particularly if the other property might have been used as collateral.

I guess having to pay a penalty on past due taxes can be considered a "****** thing" but you have to wonder if this would rise to the level of Reeva thinking he might need additional consolation from other family members. Seems like a lot of coddling coming from Reeva just over an unpaid tax bill and fine-- but then again, this is Oscar, and he is without doubt high maintenance emotionally.

People have also speculated that the "hurdle" Reeva mentioned could be related to the assault charges and claim for damages filed by Cassidy Taylor-Memmory (a four-year long legal battle that was ultimately settled out of court sometime in February of 2014 right before his trial began in March 2014.)

Many have wondered what could be the motive for shooting Reeva, and I suspect if Oscar was already having difficulty controlling his anger and disappointment at the outcome of this meeting, then it would not take much to set him off in an uncontrolled rage.

Like so many women in his life, Taylor-Memmory looks an awful lot like Reeva (in type, at least). Not hard to imagine how someone like Oscar could possibly transfer his anger at Cassidy Taylor-Memmory to any perceived slight from Reeva that night. I find it so significant too that he was engaged in an unusually long phone conversation with his ongoing ex, Jenna aka 'Babyshoes' Edkins, when he arrived home that evening. Sounds like he had a long standing habit of turning to her when things got difficult for him.

This was no normal evening of yoga and hot tea for Reeva and Oscar.

BRBM

Almost sounds like Reeva was the trophy girlfriend and Jenna was the real heart-to-heart girlfriend (who finally could only handle OP in small doses as a friend-confidant-???).

I think Oscar cheated Reeva of more than her life.
 
Not sure about multiquote working! Small thing bothering me and probably of no consequence, but the last line in the text message in #831 where it says "RS to OP"....should that be "OP to RS"? Wondering only because he usually calls her "Angel" and she "Baba" to him. Content also seems to repeat his request for her to stay the night, do whatever she had to do instead of going back to Joburg. Of no consequence and I'm more than likely wrong but these are desperate times!
 
Are we desperate to be having this conversation. Well, we have time on our hands so why not.

According to South Africa's National Building Regulations Part O:

"(1) Any habitable room, bathroom, shower-room and room containing a toilet pan or urinal, or any room which is a parking garage shall be provided with a means of lighting and ventilation which will enable such room to be used, without detriment to health or safety or causing any nuisance, for the purpose for which it is designed".

http://www.thedti.gov.za/business_regulation/acts/building_standards_act.pdf

If there is insufficient ventilation, artificial ventilation MUST be installed. … and it should be at least five per cent of the floor area of the room (or at least 0,2 square metres if the room is very small).

http://sans10400.co.za/lighting-and-ventilation/


:thinking:




:hilarious:
 
Looking at the bottom part of that bathroom window, it does appear to be sealed into the frame and wall. The cords I thought belonged to a blind, having something similar at home myself. Is there a photo showing the top inside of the same window? The top section might push out? Ventilation might be in the floor to comply with government regulations? This is desperation at its best!
 
<Respectfully snipped>

Australian toilets (or perhaps just yours ;)) are indeed weird !!

VIDEO : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grnk9p9P7Qk

Look at the level of the water before he pours in the water (normal level) compared to after he pours in the water and the toilet flushes automatically&#8230; its much lower, just as in OP's toilet photos

VIDEO : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOh8aOZ5lxU

Two things. You said to pour the water in slowly, which we did. There was no change to the water level.
Now you're demonstrating when water is poured from a bucket, which we also did, and it returned to its original level, not lower.

The level of water in our toilet appears to be exactly the same as OP's, and this is normal in Australia and probably SA too. Maybe where you live it's higher as in the video. I've seen toilets in the US where the whole bowl is basically filled!!! After the guy used the bucket and the bulk of water drained away, the water only filled the tiny hole. It was nothing like the amount of water in OP's toilet ... it was virtually non-existent. As you pointed out, this was not the normal level. Pouring water from a bucket is not a flush as such. We've travelled extensively and the water levels have invariably been similar to Oz.

There's nothing weird about Aussie toilets. In fact, it was Australia who developed dual flush toilets which many countries have now decided to use. ;) Let's agree to disagree. :)
 
Looking at the bottom part of that bathroom window, it does appear to be sealed into the frame and wall. The cords I thought belonged to a blind, having something similar at home myself. Is there a photo showing the top inside of the same window? The top section might push out? Ventilation might be in the floor to comply with government regulations? This is desperation at its best!

The only other option to comply with the regulations is an exhaust fan.
 
<Respectfully snipped>

Two things. You said to pour the water in slowly, which we did. There was no change to the water level.
Now you're demonstrating when water is poured from a bucket, which we also did, and it returned to its original level, not lower.

The level of water in our toilet appears to be exactly the same as OP's, and this is normal in Australia and probably SA too. Maybe where you live it's higher as in the video. I've seen toilets in the US where the whole bowl is basically filled!!! After the guy used the bucket and the bulk of water drained away, the water only filled the tiny hole. It was nothing like the amount of water in OP's toilet ... it was virtually non-existent. As you pointed out, this was not the normal level. Pouring water from a bucket is not a flush as such. We've travelled extensively and the water levels have invariably been similar to Oz.

There's nothing weird about Aussie toilets. In fact, it was Australia who developed dual flush toilets which many countries have now decided to use. ;) Let's agree to disagree. :)

I'm OK with agreeing to disagree :)

As I see OP's toilet&#8230; only the "tiny hole", as you put it, is filled and that cannot be the normal water level IMO&#8230;

If that tiny amount of water at the bottom of the bowl is the normal water level then I would expect that when one goes No2 it would smear and cling to the dry porcelain bowl walls...

&#8230; AND if, as you previously stated, "Australian toilets are different in at least one respect inasmuch as when you flush the toilet, the water doesn't swirl at all" then the unsightly brown stains would remain in the bowl no matter how many times you flush&#8230;. Yuk !!!

You suggest that OP's toilet was flushed normally by pressing of the flush-lever&#8230; then all of the red blood streaks in the bowl are areas that are never rinsed when flushing&#8230;that's simply disgusting&#8230; and WHY would any toilet manufacturer design a toilet which does not properly rinse the bowl after each flush ??????&#8230;. doesn't make sense does it ?

The swirling water is a basic feature of a toilet to rinse the inside of the bowl&#8230; the nozzles located under the rim of the bowl are slightly angled so as to ensure a proper rinsing of the entire bowl surface&#8230; this, accompanied by the Coriolis effect, makes the water swirl around as the bowl drains when flushed.

As for your other previous statement "There is no automatic flush because of the S-bend, and he proved it by his experiments"&#8230; well I have provided you with 2 videos (and many more are available) that contradict you&#8230; they show exactly what I have claimed about an automatic flush when adding water to the bowl without pressing on the flush-lever&#8230; this is a basic physics principal involving gravity and fluid mechanics : the siphon which is, as far as I am aware, the fundamental working principal of all toilets I have used around the world.

The whole point of the S-bend is to prevent sewage gases from coming up the toilet AND to create the siphon action when water level reaches the top of the S-bend and spills over.
 
The only other option to comply with the regulations is an exhaust fan.

As for the SA building codes you quoted&#8230; seriously&#8230;

You prefer to argue that every single toilet in all of SA must and does conform to SA's building codes AND that OP's toilet window could strangely be opened and closed by pulling on a string (a string that clearly and obviously operates the blinds, btw) instead believing your own eyes and conceding the possibility that the window in OP's toilet does not open ?!?

Okey dokey&#8230; :)
 
I'm OK with agreeing to disagree :)

As I see OP's toilet… only the "tiny hole", as you put it, is filled and that cannot be the normal water level IMO…

If that tiny amount of water at the bottom of the bowl is the normal water level then I would expect that when one goes No2 it would smear and cling to the dry porcelain bowl walls...

… AND if, as you previously stated, "Australian toilets are different in at least one respect inasmuch as when you flush the toilet, the water doesn't swirl at all" then the unsightly brown stains would remain in the bowl no matter how many times you flush…. Yuk !!!

You suggest that OP's toilet was flushed normally by pressing of the flush-lever… then all of the red blood streaks in the bowl are areas that are never rinsed when flushing…that's simply disgusting… and WHY would any toilet manufacturer design a toilet which does not properly rinse the bowl after each flush ??????…. doesn't make sense does it ?

The swirling water is a basic feature of a toilet to rinse the inside of the bowl… the nozzles located under the rim of the bowl are slightly angled so as to ensure a proper rinsing of the entire bowl surface… this, accompanied by the Coriolis effect, makes the water swirl around as the bowl drains when flushed.

As for your other previous statement "There is no automatic flush because of the S-bend, and he proved it by his experiments"… well I have provided you with 2 videos (and many more are available) that contradict you… they show exactly what I have claimed about an automatic flush when adding water to the bowl without pressing on the flush-lever… this is a basic physics principal involving gravity and fluid mechanics : the siphon which is, as far as I am aware, the fundamental working principal of all toilets I have used around the world.

The whole point of the S-bend is to prevent sewage gases from coming up the toilet AND to create the siphon action when water level reaches the top of the S-bend and spills over.

No, the "tiny hole" was in the toilet in your video. The water in OP's toilet is exactly the same as mine. The hole is much larger in our toilets and the water level in ours is the normal level, and probably OP's too. My toilet is always clean and more water isn't required. There are no unsightly brown stains anywhere, none. Perhaps it's because of the force of the water is greater - it certainly gushes. You never have to flush twice and the bowl is always completely rinsed.

What I'm suggesting is that he positioned her over the toilet shortly after shooting her, and no doubt arterial spurting was going into the toilet. Before he went downstairs he may have flushed the toilet but she was still bleeding into it so when he flush was coming to an end and only a small amount of water was going into the bowl, it didn't remove the remainder of the blood. This conversation has run its course as far as I'm concerned.
 
From toilet to guest room:

Hilton Botha (??) said immediately after having a tour through OP's home, that the guest room looked inhabited.
IF the guest room was occupied by Reeva, she had a private bathroom/toilet. In this case, there would have been no "normal" reason for her to use OP's bathroom and to be trapped in the toilet cubicle. IF the guest room was occupied by Reeva, then we have much more of OP's lies than before. And we would have a proof, that OP has chased Reeva into his toilet cubicle.

IF OP has carried Reeva's things like travel bag, handbag, shoes after the shooting from guest room to his bedroom, then there should have been found gunshot residue on it. I don't know, if that was tested. IF he carried the things after moving her body out of the toilet cubicle, then there should have been found some of her blood on it. IF there hadn't been gunshot residue and blood, there is a 3rd possibility: "assistants" with very clean hands ...
 
The level of water in the toilet is always the same but there is a temporary fluctuation or drop due to siphonage when the toilet is flushed but this is self regulating afterwards.....if he did put RS over the toilet was this done to gain time whilst he made calls etc on what to do and say ?
 
Not sure about multiquote working! Small thing bothering me and probably of no consequence, but the last line in the text message in #831 where it says "RS to OP"....should that be "OP to RS"? Wondering only because he usually calls her "Angel" and she "Baba" to him. Content also seems to repeat his request for her to stay the night, do whatever she had to do instead of going back to Joburg. Of no consequence and I'm more than likely wrong but these are desperate times!

The last message was from Reeva. She was telling OP that she was planning to go home at 6pm to her "Joburg family", the Myers, and spend the evening with Gina. Unfortunately, she changed her plans for the night.
 
No, the "tiny hole" was in the toilet in your video. The water in OP's toilet is exactly the same as mine. The hole is much larger in our toilets and the water level in ours is the normal level, and probably OP's too. My toilet is always clean and more water isn't required. There are no unsightly brown stains anywhere, none. Perhaps it's because of the force of the water is greater - it certainly gushes. You never have to flush twice and the bowl is always completely rinsed.

What I'm suggesting is that he positioned her over the toilet shortly after shooting her, and no doubt arterial spurting was going into the toilet. Before he went downstairs he may have flushed the toilet but she was still bleeding into it so when he flush was coming to an end and only a small amount of water was going into the bowl, it didn't remove the remainder of the blood. This conversation has run its course as far as I'm concerned.

For the moment, let us table the physics of a toilet AND if OP's toilet does in fact work like yours does&#8230; this is the overall scenario you are suggesting as I understand it :

Basic 5-step toilet flush cycle :

A. Flush cycle is initiated when flush-button is pressed.
B. Tank empties rapidly into the bowl rinsing it.
C. Bowl content is syphoned into the sewage pipe.
D. Tank and bowl are replenished with fresh water to achieve the proper levels.
E. Flush cycle ends when proper water levels are attained in both tank and bowl.

The scenario you're suggesting :

1. OP places Reeva in an upright sitting position over the bowl so as to catch most of the blood from the head and arm wounds.

2. Reeva's heart is beating and pumping blood into the bowl which coats the inside surface of bowl with blood.

3. Some time after, OP decides to push the flush-button which initiates the toilet's flush cycle (step A).

4. The initial rush of water in the flush cycle thoroughly rinses and cleans the inside of the bowl (step B)... i.e. no more blood inside the bowl

5. But Reeva's heart is still beating strongly enough to pump more blood into the bowl.

6. This post-flush blood is abundant enough to completely re-coat the inside of the bowl with a fresh blood during steps C & D of the flush cycle.

7. Reeva's heart suddenly stops beating during step D but before step E of the flush cycle.

8. The fresh water trickling into the bowl to replenish it to the proper level partly rinses out the bowls surface which produces the blood streaks.

9. Flush cycle ends (step E).

10. Eventually, OP returns to Reeva's body and moves her off the toilet but decides not flush the toilet a second time.

&#8230; I won't venture a speculation on the duration of a flush-cycle of an Australian toilet, of your toilet or even of OP's toilet&#8230; BUT

Had OP pressed the flush-button 5 seconds earlier, the bowl would have been covered in blood with no streaks OR 5 seconds later, the bowl would have been spotless with no streaks

Had Reeva's heart stop beating 5 seconds earlier, the bowl would have been spotless with no streaks OR 5 seconds later, the bowl would have been covered in blood with no streaks

&#8230; and all possible permutations of the combination of these 2 events, a vast majority of which would result in no blood streaks

Statistically speaking, the probabilities of these independent and sovereign events (Reeva's heart, OP's actions, toilet flush-cycle steps) to coincide precisely in the manner you are suggesting so as to produce the blood streaks are remote at best !! &#8230;IMO

Add to that the fact a small bullet fragment was recovered inside the bowl&#8230; which would have been flushed into the sewage in your scenario by the "force of the water is greater - it certainly gushes"

Also the small wood fragment from the toilet door which is visible inside the bowl on the photo would ALSO have been flushed into the sewage in your scenario&#8230; as you put it "You never have to flush twice and the bowl is always completely rinsed"&#8230; if the turds from a fully grown adult male athlete flushes away with ease on the first flush then a small wood splitter will certainly not remain, no ?

All of the evidence indicates the toilet was NOT flushed.

Nevertheless, I applaud your creativity in coming up with such a scenario and have thoroughly enjoyed debating it ! :)

As you put it earlier "It's good to see a lively debate again"
 
The level of water in the toilet is always the same but there is a temporary fluctuation or drop due to siphonage when the toilet is flushed but this is self regulating afterwards.....if he did put RS over the toilet was this done to gain time whilst he made calls etc on what to do and say ?

If OP put Reeva's body over the toilet bowl when he was confronted with the severity of her wounds...it was an instinctual response from a guilty mind : Blood = Bad&#8230;More blood = Worse

OP would instinctively want to minimize the gore at the scene so as to minimize the gravity and violence of the events as perceived by him but also as they would eventually be perceived by others&#8230; it's a self-protecting way of reducing blame and culpability.

It's a bit like a child mentality&#8230; the child is told not play ball inside the house&#8230; he does it anyway&#8230; he breaks the vase&#8230; he hides the broken pieces out of instinct because with no broken pieces all over the floor the fault/blame is somehow lessened in his mind : broken vase pieces = bad&#8230; no broken pieces = better.

This would mean that OP was not reacting in a manner consistent with a tragic accident, i.e. trying desperately to save Reeva's life... but with a man concerned with appearances, how things would look to others, how to camouflage the reality of what occurred, etc&#8230; which is consistent with the behavior OP exhibited on the phone and in front of bystanders.

&#8230; to some extend it also explains why OP wanted so desperately to remove Reeva's body from the toilet cubicle, then from the bathroom and even from his house.
 
For the moment, let us table the physics of a toilet AND if OP's toilet does in fact work like yours does&#8230; this is the overall scenario you are suggesting as I understand it :

Basic 5-step toilet flush cycle :

A. Flush cycle is initiated when flush-button is pressed.
B. Tank empties rapidly into the bowl rinsing it.
C. Bowl content is syphoned into the sewage pipe.
D. Tank and bowl are replenished with fresh water to achieve the proper levels.
E. Flush cycle ends when proper water levels are attained in both tank and bowl.

The scenario you're suggesting :

1. OP places Reeva in an upright sitting position over the bowl so as to catch most of the blood from the head and arm wounds.

2. Reeva's heart is beating and pumping blood into the bowl which coats the inside surface of bowl with blood.

3. Some time after, OP decides to push the flush-button which initiates the toilet's flush cycle (step A).

4. The initial rush of water in the flush cycle thoroughly rinses and cleans the inside of the bowl (step B)... i.e. no more blood inside the bowl

5. But Reeva's heart is still beating strongly enough to pump more blood into the bowl.

6. This post-flush blood is abundant enough to completely re-coat the inside of the bowl with a fresh blood during steps C & D of the flush cycle.

7. Reeva's heart suddenly stops beating during step D but before step E of the flush cycle.

8. The fresh water trickling into the bowl to replenish it to the proper level partly rinses out the bowls surface which produces the blood streaks.

9. Flush cycle ends (step E).

10. Eventually, OP returns to Reeva's body and moves her off the toilet but decides not flush the toilet a second time.

&#8230; I won't venture a speculation on the duration of a flush-cycle of an Australian toilet, of your toilet or even of OP's toilet&#8230; BUT

Had OP pressed the flush-button 5 seconds earlier, the bowl would have been covered in blood with no streaks OR 5 seconds later, the bowl would have been spotless with no streaks

Had Reeva's heart stop beating 5 seconds earlier, the bowl would have been spotless with no streaks OR 5 seconds later, the bowl would have been covered in blood with no streaks

&#8230; and all possible permutations of the combination of these 2 events, a vast majority of which would result in no blood streaks

Statistically speaking, the probabilities of these independent and sovereign events (Reeva's heart, OP's actions, toilet flush-cycle steps) to coincide precisely in the manner you are suggesting so as to produce the blood streaks are remote at best !! &#8230;IMO

Add to that the fact a small bullet fragment was recovered inside the bowl&#8230; which would have been flushed into the sewage in your scenario by the "force of the water is greater - it certainly gushes"

Also the small wood fragment from the toilet door which is visible inside the bowl on the photo would ALSO have been flushed into the sewage in your scenario&#8230; as you put it "You never have to flush twice and the bowl is always completely rinsed"&#8230; if the turds from a fully grown adult male athlete flushes away with ease on the first flush then a small wood splitter will certainly not remain, no ?

All of the evidence indicates the toilet was NOT flushed.

Nevertheless, I applaud your creativity in coming up with such a scenario and have thoroughly enjoyed debating it ! :)

As you put it earlier "It's good to see a lively debate again"

Just one thing, the level of water at the bottom of the bowl always stays the same except when there is siphonage in the going away pipe but that is minimal and self regulating, having said that, in extreme cases of siphonage odours can get through. If you pour a glass of water into the toilet then an equal amount will go down the pipe, allthough you may not be able to hear it.
 
It's always surprised me about the lack of footprints. The top circled mark could well be Reeva's footprint and it's facing in the correct direction and would be an appropriate distance from the magazine rack . The two lower ones could be OP's stumps.

It's good to see a lively debate again. :)

Totally agree :):clap:
 
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