Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Allegations are just that. Someone telling a story. There are no charges. Have never been charges. That is a big problem for these people who all want the world to believe that something happened and just long ago so that they don't have to prove it in court.

I don't know. None of this gives me a good feeling.

 

[Donjeta]

I think the issue of "innocent until proven guilty" and "innocent as in he did nothing" is a bit like the character of Bill Cosby and the character of Cliff Huxtable. Both are easily confoundable but eventually two quite separate things.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think the issue of "innocent until proven guilty" and "innocent as in he did nothing" is a bit like the character of Bill Cosby and the character of Cliff Huxtable. Both are easily confoundable but eventually two quite separate things.

Innocent until proven guilty is all that matters. That is how our legal system works.

 

[Donjeta]

Innocent until proven guilty is all that matters. That is how our legal system works.

Well we must agree to disagree there. It's indeed how the legal system works but it's certainly not all that matters. The victims who were raped and murdered by people who didn't leave enough evidence to be convicted are just as traumatized and/or dead as the ones who were raped and murdered by people who are in jail right now.

Plenty of crimes go unpunished but it doesn't mean the victims count any less.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well we must agree to disagree there. It's indeed how the legal system works but it's certainly not all that matters. The victims who were raped and murdered by people who didn't leave enough evidence to be convicted are just as traumatized and/or dead as the ones who were raped and murdered by people who are in jail right now.

Plenty of crimes go unpunished but it doesn't mean the victims count any less.

IT is all that matters. We don't go around ruining people's lives without them being found guilty. There is no way to weigh the truth of a statement until it comes under oath and through the system.
What matters is that he has not been charged with any crime. Not one here.

 

[Montjoy]

Innocent until proven guilty is all that matters. That is how our legal system works.

If it's all that matters, I wouldn't expect you to ever suggest that anyone is guilty before they've been tried and convicted. But you've done that in many occasions in the past, haven't you? Why is this case different?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If it's all that matters, I wouldn't expect you to ever suggest that anyone is guilty before they've been tried and convicted. But you've done that in many occasions in the past, haven't you? Why is this case different?

Have I?? Where would that be? Because if you go and look I am the first person to stand up and say innocent until proven guilty. In all cases.
Even when it is not popular.

 

[Donjeta]

IT is all that matters. We don't go around ruining people's lives without them being found guilty. There is no way to weigh the truth of a statement until it comes under oath and through the system.
What matters is that he has not been charged with any crime. Not one here.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

It is not in dispute that he has not been charged of any crime.

However, I must most sincerely and forcefully disagree that it is all that matters.

There are lots of crimes that no one ever gets charged and convicted for. Doesn't mean that it didn't matter to the victims and doesn't mean that it never happened. It just means that there wasn't enough evidence to convict.

Confession: I speeded today but I wasn't caught and I will never be convicted for it. Doesn't mean it's not true.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Nope. Nope. Nope.

It is not in dispute that he has not been charged of any crime.

However, I must most sincerely and forcefully disagree that it is all that matters.

There are lots of crimes that no one ever gets charged and convicted for. Doesn't mean that it didn't matter to the victims and doesn't mean that it never happened. It just means that there wasn't enough evidence to convict.

Confession: I speeded today but I wasn't caught and I will never be convicted for it. Doesn't mean it's not true.

It is all that matters to me. Yes, I know that there are people that don't get charged and convicted but as a sad as that it is it is because there is not enough evidence against them to convict them. It is that way to help keep innocent people out of jail.

So If I go around accusing you of something horrible but there is no proof that is okay with you? Because to me that is what we are talking about here.

I care more about innocent people being railroaded than most anything else.

 

[Donjeta]

It is all that matters to me. Yes, I know that there are people that don't get charged and convicted but as a sad as that it is it is because there is not enough evidence against them to convict them. It is that way to help keep innocent people out of jail.

So If I go around accusing you of something horrible but there is no proof that is okay with you? Because to me that is what we are talking about here.

I care more about innocent people being railroaded than most anything else.

BBM Well if I ever got raped and the perp was never caught but you went around saying it doesn't matter and it never happened because there is no proof and so every single person in the world is innocent in the court of law (so I must be making it up, although there is no proof of that either) I might feel like I was railroaded.

Fortunately, I think you're in the minority and most other people do realize that the crimes for which people don't get charged and convicted for may be just as horrible and matter just as much as the crimes that the perp was stupid enough to end in jail for.

So what if we were not talking about rape here? What if we were talking about murder? Let's say some young ladies got drugged and strangled but they never could charge or convict anyone for it. That wouldn't matter to you?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM Well if I ever got raped and the perp was never caught but you went around saying it doesn't matter and it never happened because there is no proof every single person in the world is innocent in the court of law (so I must be making it up, although there is no proof of that either) I might feel like I was railroaded.

Fortunately, I think you're in the minority and most other people do realize that the crimes for which people don't get charged and convicted for may be just as horrible as the crimes where the perp was stupid enough to end in jail for.

Just because I am in the minority does not make my opinion less valid or wrong. I didn't ask if you had something happen to you But if you were accused of something without evidence or without proof.

 

[Donjeta]

Just because I am in the minority does not make my opinion less valid or wrong. I didn't ask if you had something happen to you But if you were accused of something without evidence or without proof.

If I were raped and you said it doesn't matter because there is no proof so it didn't happen, you would be accusing me of making false accusations without evidence or without proof.

It's not being in the minority that makes your opinion less valid or wrong (IMO). It's being wrong.

There are lots of people who never get justice in the justice system but suffer all the same and I think it would be just horrible to say that the crimes they suffered don't matter.

Try telling that it doesn't matter to any mothers of murder victims where the perp was never caught and convicted.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If I were raped and you said it doesn't matter because there is no proof so it didn't happen, you would be accusing me of making false accusations without evidence or without proof.

It's not being in the minority that makes your opinion less valid or wrong (IMO). It's being wrong.

There are lots of people who never get justice in the justice system but suffer all the same and I think it would be just horrible to say that the crimes they suffered don't matter.

Try telling that it doesn't matter to any mothers of murder victims where the perp was never caught and convicted.

You are avoiding the point. What if you were being accused without evidence?

And my opinion is valid and not wrong. It is entirely what our justice system is based on.
It is sad when the offender is not caught but it does not equal out if we accuse innocent men. It makes it worse.

 

[BirdycatNY]

...because it gets them the attention they so desperately crave. (negative attention or not, it's still attention.)

I was thinking about BC the other day and trying to figure out why he might think it's a good idea to continue with comedy acts while these allegations/investigation are carrying on now. Imo it's rather tasteless and if he doesn't need the money, I don't understand his need for an audience, but I am not in his shoes, nor am I in the entertainment business. I wonder if he just likes the attention regardless if it's negative or positive. It kind of keeps him in the spotlight still, right? Jmo/

 

[Donjeta]

You are avoiding the point. What if you were being accused without evidence?

And my opinion is valid and not wrong. It is entirely what our justice system is based on.
It is sad when the offender is not caught but it does not equal out if we accuse innocent men. It makes it worse.

If it's sad then it matters. If it doesn't matter then it's not sad.

You don't even believe it yourself.


Please be more specific. In your scenario, would I be accused of having committed a crime that I did not commit? Or a crime that I did in fact commit but that there is no evidence for? Because I would know the difference even if the justice system doesn't.

Just because it's sad if innocent men get accused it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter about the crimes where no one gets convicted.

And just because it's sad if innocent men get accused it doesn't mean that Bill Cosby or any other person who got accused of something have to be innocent by default.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If it's sad then it matters. If it doesn't matter then it's not sad.

You don't even believe it yourself.


Please be more specific. In your scenario, would I be accused of having committed a crime that I did not commit? Or a crime that I did in fact commit but that there is no evidence for? Because I would know the difference even if the justice system doesn't.

Please don't tell me what I believe.

What if you were being accused of something you did not do in the media without proof? What if people were assuming you were guilty when you weren't?
Innocent until proven guilty is not a gimmick. It matters. It matters more than anything else in the justice system. Putting bad guys away is the best, but putting innocent people away, Or accusing people are ruining their lives without proof is the worst.

 

[Donjeta]

Please don't tell me what I believe.

What if you were being accused of something you did not do in the media without proof? What if people were assuming you were guilty when you weren't?
Innocent until proven guilty is not a gimmick. It matters. It matters more than anything else in the justice system. Putting bad guys away is the best, but putting innocent people away, Or accusing people are ruining their lives without proof is the worst.

Well but ruining rape victims lives by telling them they must be making it up just to ruin innocent rapists' lives and it doesn't matter because they can't prove it would be bad to me as well.

Innocent until proven guilty reaches only so far. It means you can't put anybody in prison or inflict other legal consequences on them unless you can prove them guilty.

It doesn't mean that everybody is in fact innocent of all the crimes they've been accused of.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well but ruining rape victims lives by telling them they must be making it up just to ruin innocent rapists' lives and it doesn't matter because they can't prove it would be bad to me as well.

Innocent until proven guilty reaches only so far. It means you can't put anybody in prison or inflict other legal consequences on them unless you can prove them guilty.

It doesn't mean that everybody is in fact innocent of all the crimes they've been accused of.

It reaches all the way. No one is telling anyone they are making it up, I just don't see enough proof that makes me feel it is all true. I need more than just their word. That is not calling them a liar, but I just can not accept everything they say as gospel because they say it. It will never be under the scrutiny of the courts because no one came forward and brought charges in all these decades and that taints it.

There is a reason there is a statute of limitations on some crimes.

IT is crappy when guilty people go free but it is crappier when we accuse innocent people without evidence.

 

[Donjeta]

It reaches all the way. No one is telling anyone they are making it up, I just don't see enough proof that makes me feel it is all true. I need more than just their word. That is not calling them a liar, but I just can not accept everything they say as gospel because they say it. It will never be under the scrutiny of the courts because no one came forward and brought charges in all these decades and that taints it.

There is a reason there is a statute of limitations on some crimes.

IT is crappy when guilty people go free but it is crappier when we accuse innocent people without evidence.

Well this is too much semantics for me. If it was me saying that someone's story doesn't make me feel it's true and that I need more than their word and that I can't accept what they're saying or that it's tainted or that they're accusing innocent people, I'd be calling them liars.

The statute of limitations is not because old accusations are all necessarily untrue. It's because it's considered unfair to charge people for very old crimes because witnesses die and evidence gets lost over the years and the defendants might lose their opportunity to fight the charges and because sometimes it might be unjust to drag up something very old and because the justice system doesn't want to be clogged up with ancient crimes with senile witnesses where everybody who cared has mostly died by now.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well this is too much semantics for me. If it was me saying that someone's story doesn't make me feel it's true and that I need more than their word and that I can't accept what they're saying or that it's tainted or that they're accusing innocent people, I'd be calling them liars.

We all have to decide for ourselves what to believe and not believe. Because I don't believe someone does not mean I am calling them a liar.