AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[K_Z]

JMO but I doubt the children have been forbidden to pray.

The parents praying with the children could sometimes be a tool for more emotional abuse, guilt tripping the kids for asking for help and reporting abuse or simply for enjoying their new friends and learning things at the school, trying to skirt around the forbidden topics to pressure the kids to a point of view or saying certain things, or otherwise sabotaging what the foster care people are trying to achieve.

"... please forgive our son who was tempted to lie by the devil who says I abuse him when I disciplined him for his own good... please deliver him from sin, he's saying he likes the new ungodly school... please save him from the evils of [insert list of religious insults directed at people who are trying to help]...

BBM. I think you are 100% correct in this assessment, Donjeta. Prayer used as a cover for inducing guilt feelings in the children for what they are putting the other children, parents, and community through, psychological manipulation, emotional blaming for the current situation, etc. That's why it's not allowed during the visits. The children are almost certainly free to pray alone or with their siblings.

This case, as margomom so eloquently writes, is not about homeschooling, Christianity, or religious persecution. It's about the children's safety and freedom from abuse, both psychological and physical. The children were not removed because they are homeschooling Christians, despite what they may say in interviews and on blog posts. Homeschooling and Christianity won't hold up in court as an objective set of reasons to remove children. There has to be credible evidence of abuse, neglect, and/ or serious safety hazards, no matter what religion is practiced, or whether the kids are schooled at home or elsewhere.

I have to notice that HS hasn't made any direct comments publicly lately about his beliefs about discipline techniques. He just talks about his rights to bring up his children being infringed upon, his rights to pray with them being restricted, his conversation with them during visits to be monitored and restricted, etc. Granted, he's under a gag order, but even so, these kind of interview comments don't exactly put him in a flattering light with the general population, IMO. But then, his comments (and his wife's) were chosen to appeal to his community of religious sympathizers and supporters, not the general population.

 

[K_Z]

Let me give 2 hypothetical examples related to homeschooling.

If a family were homeschooling their children, but ONLY taught them to read, so that they could read the religious text of their faith, and didn't also teach them to write, do math, science, geography, history, etc-- THEN a family could be found to be educationally neglecting their children thru the homeschooling process.

Or hypothetically, let's imagine a family claiming that they are homeschooling, but they don't actually teach their children anything at all, and the children, who are mentally capable of learning, can't read or write, do math, etc by a reasonably comparable age to other children. THEN a family could be found to be educationally neglecting their children through homeschooling. Even if that family claimed that they were using "oral traditions" to teach their children.

The laws on homeschooling vary from state to state, but in common, they require parents who homeschool to teach their children to read, write, do math, etc. In my state, for example, if you do not have a bachelor's degree, you are required to meet more stringent requirements than a parent with a bachelor's degree or higher. IIRC, parents without a 4 year degree have to use a certified curriculum of their choice, and register that, as well as submit results of standardized testing periodically. If you do have a bachelor's degree, or higher, the laws more loosely define the requirements. (I haven't checked the actual wording in a while, so I may be a little off on this.) One of our kids is partially homeschooled for certain core subjects, so we had to do some research years ago to persuade the school district to get on board with our plan. We still have the district give this child the regular standardized tests in those subjects that everyone else takes, as a mechanism to officially document her progress in the homeschool curriculum we use. (They were quite happy with that part of our plan, lol!)

We haven't heard anything from officials that this Stanley case has anything to do with homeschooling. And indeed, it seems that 2 older kids have achieved college admission, so we can be at least reasonably sure that there is effective homeschooling going on in the home, unless something has changed drastically in recent months/ years. So, IMO, its a deceptive claim and a distraction for him to say that they are being persecuted simply because they are Christian homeschoolers.

 

[stormshine]

The red flag to me is this line: "My right to train my children in the way they should go has been taken away."

Unless we're talking about potty-training or anything else related to a baby, the concept of "training" a child (not educating them, not raising them, but training them) always brings my thoughts back to the "To Train up a Child" and the harm that book and concept has caused. Not to mention that, to me, the concept of "training" a child is extremely degrading. You train a dog. You don't train a kid.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://www.wfmynews2.com/story/news...enesis-ii-church-cancer-cure-bleach/22617809/

eta: The above is a link to a news story that was done on MMS and speculation that it was the cause of a woman's death.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-charged-internet-sales-industrial-bleach-miracle-cure

Louis Daniel Smith, 42, and Karis Delong, 38, both of Ashland, Ore., were charged with defrauding regulators and suppliers in a scheme to manufacture and sell industrial bleach as a cure for numerous illnesses, including arthritis, cancer, and the seasonal flu. Also charged were Chris Olson, 49, and Tammy Olson, 50, of Nine Mile Falls, Wash. A federal grand jury returned an indictment, unsealed yesterday, charging Smith, Delong and Tammy Olson with one count of conspiracy, four counts of interstate sales of misbranded drugs, and one count of smuggling. The grand jury charged Chris Olson with one count of conspiracy, one count of the interstate sale of a misbranded drug and one count of smuggling.

I think it's very disturbing that this is still being sold in certain "circles" as a cure all for everything.

I guess if you attach a religious organization to something and that substance was told to be discovered by someone that attached the word Bishop to their name, then it must true to some people?

Regardless of what marketing techniques may be used, I prefer to do research on any substance, including doctor prescribed pharmaceuticals before I put them in or on my body. I will ask my doctor and pharmacist questions. They have many years of education and experience.

Creators of multi-level marketing schemes that teach aggressive sales techinques, with to good to be true claims, are not on my list of trusted products for consumption.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/7...eyre-victims-of-christian-persecution-134335/

Stanley also disclosed that he thinks two of his older children, who have already gone on to college, could be behind the investigation because they always expressed interest in going to public school.

He is blaming the two adult children that are out of the house and no longer under his control. Hmmm....

 

[stormshine]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/7...eyre-victims-of-christian-persecution-134335/



He is blaming the two adult children that are out of the house and no longer under his control. Hmmm....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought one of his two older children is the one who has her own blog where she posts her father's sermons online. It seems like she's pretty supportive of him (although it's entirely possible for her to be both supportive of him in some ways and wanting him to change in others).

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought one of his two older children is the one who has her own blog where she posts her father's sermons online. It seems like she's pretty supportive of him (although it's entirely possible for her to be both supportive of him in some ways and wanting him to change in others).

Maybe she isn't as supportive now after she has left the home??? Maybe she posted the sermons for others to hear? I don't know....

It seems like every article I read, or every interview I watch, there is one more person thrown in the mix to blame. Now they are blaming the two that are grown and out of the home and they have also blamed the two oldest teens in previous statements. Why would they do that? Why would all of the oldest children be speaking up and why are they so defensive?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I should have worded that differently. Why would the parents think or assume that the reports came from the two eldest children that are no longer in the home and/or the two teens that are still in the home?

The son that did speak on camera was extremely articulate and intelligent for his age. IMO! I really think that the voices of these children need to be heard over the parents screams about "persecution" due to their beliefs. Maybe their beliefs fall over into abuse on a variety of levels.

People can put on a front of looking good for pictures, but that doesn't mean that everything is peaceful and loving behind closed doors.

 

[MyBelle]

From the same article
What I bolded concerns me. This seems like a very odd thing to say when discussing the welfare of your children. Jmo

It's not all that odd if the quality of the education is poor yet spending per pupil is high. These performance stats are terrible and there's no way one of my kids would go to public school in Hot Springs. My cousin's kids don't go to public school in Little Rock because of violence, drugs and poor quality of education.

Just one high school in Hot Springs and there were 14 weapons incidents, 3 staff assaults and 5 student assaults in 2012-13. That should concern any parent, imo.

http://hssd.net/files/2603000_ReportCard_2013.pdf

District Information

District Overview
District State Average
Graduation Rate 69.8% 76.4%
Dropout Rate 15.8% 4.7%
Per Pupil Spending $9,959 $8,855
Students Per Teacher 11.3 12.9
Number of Schools 8 -
Number of Students 3,733 -
Number of (FTE) Teachers 329

http://www.localschooldirectory.com/district-schools/2603000/Hot-Springs-School-District/AR

 

[MyBelle]

It sounds like there are children that have grown and moved out of the home and children that are teens in the home calling the parents out. Maybe..just maybe...they want to save the younger ones from the negative impact that they experienced in that environment.

I am disgusted that so many are minimizing the impact that this has on the children, both young and old, in this home.

Is Child Protective Services an agency for children to "call parents out" for anything that is not emotional or physical abuse? Millions of American children go to Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist and private schools because their parents don't want them in public schools. If they aren't happy should they, too, report their parents to CPS?

Isn't it the parents' right to select the education for their children? I've always believed it is.

JMO

 

[BeginnersLuck]

It's not all that odd if the quality of the education is poor yet spending per pupil is high. These performance stats are terrible and there's no way one of my kids would go to public school in Hot Springs. My cousin's kids don't go to public school in Little Rock because of violence, drugs and poor quality of education.

Just one high school in Hot Springs and there were 14 weapons incidents, 3 staff assaults and 5 student assaults in 2012-13. That should concern any parent, imo.

http://hssd.net/files/2603000_ReportCard_2013.pdf

District Information

District Overview
District State Average
Graduation Rate 69.8% 76.4%
Dropout Rate 15.8% 4.7%
Per Pupil Spending $9,959 $8,855
Students Per Teacher 11.3 12.9
Number of Schools 8 -
Number of Students 3,733 -
Number of (FTE) Teachers 329

http://www.localschooldirectory.com/district-schools/2603000/Hot-Springs-School-District/AR

What does your statement have to do with this thread?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Is Child Protective Services an agency for children to "call parents out" for anything that is not emotional or physical abuse? Millions of American children go to Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist and private schools because their parents don't want them in public schools. If they aren't happy should they, too, report their parents to CPS?

Isn't it the parents' right to select the education for their children? I've always believed it is.

JMO

When you have not just one, but multiple people backing up allegations of abuse then I would take it seriously. It's a shame that there were some that probably lived it that environment for many year as young children and now they are finally able to speak out for their siblings.

eta: Why are you making this about education when there are multiple factors that have been brought up?

 

[MyBelle]

What does your statement have to do with this thread?

Excuse me? My opinion pertains to the public school the topics of this thread are now attending and mentioned in the father's comments to the media.

While the family is allowed visitation once a week, Mr. Stanley says that he is concerned that his children are being indoctrinated with secularism since the government has put them in public school in the meantime.

“Now they are being taught the world standards. We have homeschooled them. Now, they are being forced into public school. My children are not properly dressed. They are not properly prepared,” he told the Christian Post. “My children are being abused as we speak by the public school system. Everything we have built for 22 years has been taken away.”

http://christiannews.net/2015/02/20...-in-state-custody-for-at-least-another-month/

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Excuse me? My opinion pertains to the public school the topics of this thread are now attending and mentioned in the father's comments to the media.

While the family is allowed visitation once a week, Mr. Stanley says that he is concerned that his children are being indoctrinated with secularism since the government has put them in public school in the meantime.

“Now they are being taught the world standards. We have homeschooled them. Now, they are being forced into public school. My children are not properly dressed. They are not properly prepared,” he told the Christian Post. “My children are being abused as we speak by the public school system. Everything we have built for 22 years has been taken away.”

http://christiannews.net/2015/02/20...-in-state-custody-for-at-least-another-month/

Yes..his defense despite what multiple adult and soon to be adult children have said. Did you listen to his sermons? You said you wouldn't in a previous post.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes..his defense despite what multiple adult and soon to be adult children have said. Did you listen to his sermons? You said you wouldn't in a previous post.

No, I did not listen to his sermons because I do not practice that religion. I do tolerate his religion which is his constitutional right and mine.

 

[CathyinTexas]

There was a post in Bring the Stanley Kids Home. I am not posting the text Michelle wrote but the link to pictures which she thinks will show us who the Stanleys are.

https://plus.google.com/photos/1008...s/6116022826234956769?authkey=CKW41a2mm8DNowE

 

[daisytrail]

No, I did not listen to his sermons because I do not practice that religion. I do tolerate his religion which is his constitutional right and mine.

I certainly have no objections to listening to sermons in other religions, but once was enough for listening to Stanley. The man is so monotone-boring that if tediousness and lack of cadence was a child abuse offense, they would lock him up and throw away the key. :shame:

 

[Margo/Mom]

Is Child Protective Services an agency for children to "call parents out" for anything that is not emotional or physical abuse? Millions of American children go to Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist and private schools because their parents don't want them in public schools. If they aren't happy should they, too, report their parents to CPS?

Isn't it the parents' right to select the education for their children? I've always believed it is.

JMO

Home schooling is purely tangential to this case so far as I can tell. The allegations have to do with physical abuse, not educational neglect. The Stanleys are upset that the children are in public school while in state custody. Seems unreasonable to expect that the state has resources to home school the children.

 

[MyBelle]

Home schooling is purely tangential to this case so far as I can tell. The allegations have to do with physical abuse, not educational neglect. The Stanleys are upset that the children are in public school while in state custody. Seems unreasonable to expect that the state has resources to home school the children.

The Stanley's do have every right to be upset the children are in public school. The state does have the resources to provide a tutor for the children. After all, one person has been their teacher and if two children are already in college, she's done something right.

JMO