GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[PaperDoll]

BBM: Yes, BM never got off a shot at the 1st scene because he is ineffectual in the use of firearms. You say there is no law against following someone then in the same breath say the Audi should have driven away. I AGREE WITH YOU. IMO BM tried to shoot but couldn't figure it out. He choked. I believe BM did brandish his gun but couldn't figure out right then exactly how it worked. At the M's home, where the Audi followed the Buick, and as you say had every right to follow any car and be on any street, shots were fired. Who knows who fired first. That is reasonable doubt to me.

From the 1st shooting, EN fired off the 1st round, doesn't matter if BM couldn't work a gun, fact as we know it there were no shots fired from BM at that scene. Buick fled toward home, Audi spotted them, turn into the cul-de-sac, gun loaded and turn the car at a angle to fire off shots. If BM fired first, he had every right because he was fired on the 1st time around, so he's thinking, and he's correct in his thinking, that this person in the Audi is after me because he shot at me the 1st time around, so why is he here in front of my house?

 

[jjenny]

Paranoia doesn't discount his fearing someone was out to get him. I'm sure the danger felt very real to him. So, your constantly claiming he was paranoid is validating he has a self defense claim.

It has to be a reasonable fear. A paranoid individual could think you are after him because you looked at him funny. That's not reasonable. And not a standard for self-defense.

 

[BellaVita]

SStarr33 wrote:
The killing of another person in self-defense is justified and not unlawful when the person who does the killing actually and reasonably believes that there is imminent danger that the assailant will either kill him or cause him great bodily injury and; that it is absolutely necessary under the circumstances for him to use in self-defense force or means that might cause the death of the other person for the purpose of avoiding death or great bodily injury to himself.

Again, if it can be proven or hypothesized that EN thought his life was in danger, through whatever means the defense uses, self-defense IS a viable option. IMO.

 

[PaperDoll]

He was going westbound on Alta keeping getting further past his home until after going even further they then 'turned around' (U-turn), so they'd then be going eastbound on Alta. From there the fastest way to his house is going to Cimarron and then going eastbound on Cherry. This is BM saying the lights were coming down - not up - Carmel Peak: "I saw headlights coming down Carmel Peak." Coming down Carmel Peak means you were on Cherry River rather than Alta.

Right but something isn't right about that because the Buick fled at a high rate of speed towards home, by the time EN took that route, the Meyers should have been out of the car and into the house. But you are right, the report does say coming down so I'm confused. And, eastbound on Cherry would put EN close to his house, in fact he would have had to pass his house to make the right on Carmel, then a right on Mt. Shasta.

 

[SStarr33]

SStarr33 wrote:
The killing of another person in self-defense is justified and not unlawful when the person who does the killing actually and reasonably believes that there is imminent danger that the assailant will either kill him or cause him great bodily injury and; that it is absolutely necessary under the circumstances for him to use in self-defense force or means that might cause the death of the other person for the purpose of avoiding death or great bodily injury to himself.

Again, if it can be proven or hypothesized that EN thought his life was in danger, through whatever means the defense uses, self-defense IS a viable option. IMO.

No, it doesn't matter what he thought, otherwise paranoid people could shoot people all the time and get away with it.

The threat has to be real and imminent and that has to be proven.

 

[PaperDoll]

And who would be telling Bob these varying versions from? KM & BrM, IMO.

I'm sure RM is getting his versions from a lot of people and not just his kids. I'm also sure he is putting his own spin on what he thinks happened. I know if something like this happened to my family, I would add my 2 cents whether I was there or not.

 

[Miss Muffet]

It has to be a reasonable fear. A paranoid individual could think you are after him because you looked at him funny. That's not reasonable. And not a standard for self-defense.

Just because he's paranoid, doesn't mean the prior threats he received and BM's gun he saw in the buick weren't real. EN's fear was magnified by his paranoia, but most reasonable people would still fear those things.

 

[BellaVita]

No, it comes down to if EN felt his life was threatened at that moment by a gun and he said he never heard any shots, so he is going to prison for life.

Just because he didn't hear shots doesn't mean he didn't see a gun or feel threatened. I will tell you from experience that when a situation unfolds and a gun is produced, things move in slow motion and you get tunnel vision. I know. And I have heard this type of evidence presented before.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

But why would the Meyers drive past EN's house after they were shot at? They would have to pass their street in order to drive past EN's house, then turn around and head back home.

Given this was the Meyers in particular we are talking about with TM just recently following a gang member home, RM going over to the home of an armed-and-dangerous murder suspect and TM just that night going out and getting armed and chasing a car in response to an alleged death threat, TM driving by EN's doesn't sound that surprising. If we were dealing people who didn't follow gang members home in response to road rage and didn't get armed and go cruising the streets in response to death threats it would be unusual, but given who we are dealing with I can't say that I'd find it unusual if the Meyers did any more driving before returning home...I'm not saying that happened, but I wouldn't find it unusual if the Meyers did do that.

 

[SStarr33]

Just because he didn't hear shots doesn't mean he didn't see a gun or feel threatened. I will tell you from experience that when a situation unfolds and a gun is produced, things move in slow motion and you get tunnel vision. I know. And I have heard this type of evidence presented before.

It doesn't matter if he saw the gun at the first shooting incident. That event was over when the Meyers retreated.

 

[SeeAlice]

It's not a stereotype. I believe he's overcompensating for something. You have a dirty mind to assume I mean his penis. The shortcoming could be anything; hence, the :thinking: because I'm wondering what's causing him to brag and exaggerate.

Speaking of which, did EN's Instagram show any firearms? Most republished photos I've seen contain nothing but weed and one half-opened knife (perhaps to provide perspective for the size of the buds on top of and beside the knife.)

Brandon's social media, on the other hand...


JMO

 

[BellaVita]

No, it doesn't matter what he thought, otherwise paranoid people could shoot people all the time and get away with it.

The threat has to be real and imminent and that has to be proven.

I said nothing about paranoia. And guess what----the threat was real and imminent. TM got her son and his gun and went hunting. That is BM's own testimony. So yeah, the threat was real. Real enough to have an unspent shell casing in the passenger seat.

 

[sonjay]

He was going westbound on Alta keeping getting further past his home until after going even further they then 'turned around' (U-turn), so they'd then be going eastbound on Alta. From there the fastest way to his house is going to Cimarron and then going eastbound on Cherry. This is BM saying the lights were coming down - not up - Carmel Peak: "I saw headlights coming down Carmel Peak." Coming down Carmel Peak means you were on Cherry River rather than Alta.

Most people in the northern hemisphere would say "coming down Carmel Peak" if they were referring to someone going south on Carmel Peak. But maybe BM is from Australia or something, because on pg. 140 of the GJ transcript, BM says this:

"A. How this street is right here, they were coming from this direction on the right hand side, they were coming down, I saw headlights coming towards Mount Shasta"
​

On Mt. Shasta, looking toward Carmel Peak, "coming from .... the right hand side" would be coming north, not south.

This is confirmed in the arrest affidavit, in which BM reportedly said this:

"Brandon said as he was trying to get his mother out of the car he saw headlights coming north on Carmel Peak"
​

So we know (I think) that Brandon did in fact mean that he saw the headlights traveling north on Carmel Peak. That seems to correlate with Mogg's hard-to-understand description of the route EN said the Audi took.

But that route doesn't allow for the Audi to show upon the surveillance footage traveling east on Cherry River. If the Audi was traveling east on Cherry River, it would have then turned south onto Carmel Peak.

Miss Muffet suggested that the Audi perhaps went north on Carmel Peak, then turned onto Cherry River to check out EN's house, then back east on Cherry River and south on Carmel Peak. That would account for the car appearing in the video traveling eastbound.

But that doesn't quite work, because in both the arrest affidavit and the GJ testimony, BM's description doesn't allow for the Audi to have gone north on CP past Mt. Shasta, up to Cherry River, and then back south again. He describes the headlights as coming north on CP and turning onto Mt. Shasta, period.

Plus, if BM saw the headlights of the Audi going north on Carmel Peak past Mt. Shasta, he and TM would have had plenty of time to get into the house before the Audi reached Cherry River, passed EN's house westbound on Cherry River, turned back around to come back eastbound on Cherry River, turned south onto Carmel Peak and thence to Mt. Shasta. But there wasn't that much time; BM saw the headlights coming north on Carmel Peak, he pushed his mother back into the car and took off for the house, and the Audi was immediately in the cul de sac shooting.

I'm back to not knowing what route the Audi took. If it took the route that BM saw and that Mogg seems to be describing, then it could not and cannot be the car in the surveillance video. But the car in the surveillance video almost has to be the Audi — and in that case, both BM's description and Mogg's description of its route are wrong.

 

[SStarr33]

I said nothing about paranoia. And guess what----the threat was real and imminent. TM got her son and his gun and went hunting. That is BM's own testimony. So yeah, the threat was real. Real enough to have an unspent shell casing in the passenger seat.

The threat was over. EN tried to shoot Brandon in the back and blew a hole in Tammy's head.

He's toast.

 

[BellaVita]

It doesn't matter if he saw the gun at the first shooting incident. That event was over when the Meyers retreated.

But didn't you say it is lawful for anybody to be on any street? Just say for instance that EN just happened to be following the M's onto Shasta and then BM jumped out with a gun. What then?

 

[SStarr33]

But didn't you say it is lawful for anybody to be on any street? Just say for instance that EN just happened to be following the M's onto Shasta and then BM jumped out with a gun. What then?

I never said that and I'm not into hypotheticals.

 

[sonjay]

But didn't you say it is lawful for anybody to be on any street? Just say for instance that EN just happened to be following the M's onto Shasta and then BM jumped out with a gun. What then?

Then BM is toast, of course!

It may actually have happened that way.

 

[BellaVita]

It doesn't take a legal scholar to know that if I don't know that someone shot at me, then I don't know that I'm in imminent danger, therefore, I can't shoot at them.

What if I've seen the gun and I'm a faster draw???????????

 

[Miss Muffet]

Right but something isn't right about that because the Buick fled at a high rate of speed towards home, by the time EN took that route, the Meyers should have been out of the car and into the house. But you are right, the report does say coming down so I'm confused. And, eastbound on Cherry would put EN close to his house, in fact he would have had to pass his house to make the right on Carmel, then a right on Mt. Shasta.

The Audi was already on Alta at the time of the shooting. It was right at the intersection of Alta and Villa Monterey facing sideways towards West on Alta. When the M's backed up and went down Cherry, the Audi simply had to go straight on Alta. Both cars were probably going equally fast. As the Audi passed Carmel, the buick and Audi were likely at both ends of Carmel. EN said he can't believe the buick is going to his house and tells the Audi to turn around, he knows a shortcut. There's no reason to believe they were very far down Alta when EN said that. The Audi could have made a U-turn or backed into Elysian to turn.

From there, I believe they went East on Alta, left on Carmel, all the way up to Cherry River, left onto Cherry River, checked it out via spotlight, turned around and check it out again with the spot light (this would be when it's seen in the actual part of the video we see), then turned right onto Carmel and ended up on Mt. Shasta.

TM and BM still being in the car at the house could be simply because TM was freaking out with a panic attack. I know I would be. Adrenaline causes three responses: fight, flight and freeze. BM could have been dealing with a frozen TM. Heck, based on her first idea of heading out there to get them, maybe she was telling him they needed to go back out there and kill them. For whatever reason, BM was trying to get his mother out of the car when he saw the Audi coming.

Note to self: Never buy a house on a street with brick walls surrounding the street, or where the houses have brick walls surrounding the individual properties.

 

[Miss Muffet]

No, it doesn't matter what he thought, otherwise paranoid people could shoot people all the time and get away with it.

They can. It's called temporary insanity.