GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

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The Audi was already on Alta at the time of the shooting. It was right at the intersection of Alta and Villa Monterey facing sideways towards West on Alta. When the M's backed up and went down Cherry, the Audi simply had to go straight on Alta. Both cars were probably going equally fast. As the Audi passed Carmel, the buick and Audi were likely at both ends of Carmel. EN said he can't believe the buick is going to his house and tells the Audi to turn around, he knows a shortcut. There's no reason to believe they were very far down Alta when EN said that. The Audi could have made a U-turn or backed into Elysian to turn.

From there, I believe they went East on Alta, left on Carmel, all the way up to Cherry River, left onto Cherry River, checked it out via spotlight, turned around and check it out again with the spot light (this would be when it's seen in the actual part of the video we see), then turned right onto Carmel and ended up on Mt. Shasta.

TM and BM still being in the car at the house could be simply because TM was freaking out with a panic attack. I know I would be. Adrenaline causes three responses: fight, flight and freeze. BM could have been dealing with a frozen TM. Heck, based on her first idea of heading out there to get them, maybe she was telling him they needed to go back out there and kill them. For whatever reason, BM was trying to get his mother out of the car when he saw the Audi coming.

LOL! That could be it! BM couldn't get her out of the car because she was refusing to get out because she wanted to go back out again!

Note to self: Never buy a house on a street with brick walls surrounding the street, or where the houses have brick walls surrounding the individual properties.

My note to self: Never live in that neighborhood. That has got to be one of the most dysfunctional neighborhoods I've ever heard of. It looks pretty normal on the surface, but behind all those walls is sheer craziness! It's gotta be something in the water there. Or all the drugs.
 
I think you guys are reading too much into "coming down Carmel" and "coming north" These aren't articulate people. They might not embrace up as going north and down as going south. They might refer to down as going any direction when moving along a street. And "coming north" might be missing the "from the" in the middle.

But I still do believe the Audi eventually went south on Carmel after it went north on Carmel and checked on the safety of EN's home on Cherry River. That matches everything Mogg said and the video. It also can accommodate whatever direction BM saw the car going since it went both ways on Carmel. No matter what anyone says, the direction the car is heading in the video is a fact.
 
I think you guys are reading too much into "coming down Carmel" and "coming north" These aren't articulate people. They might not embrace up as going north and down as going south. They might refer to down as going any direction when moving along a street. And "coming north" might be missing the "from the" in the middle.

But I still do believe the Audi eventually went south on Carmel after it went north on Carmel and checked on the safety of EN's home on Cherry River. That matches everything Mogg said and the video. It also can accommodate whatever direction BM saw the car going since it went both ways on Carmel.

It works if BM spent that extra time arguing with his mom about going back out to hunt for EN again. :)

That would also boost EN's self defense claim — if he hadn't stopped them, they really would have gone back out after him again.
 
Right but something isn't right about that because the Buick fled at a high rate of speed towards home, by the time EN took that route, the Meyers should have been out of the car and into the house. But you are right, the report does say coming down so I'm confused. And, eastbound on Cherry would put EN close to his house, in fact he would have had to pass his house to make the right on Carmel, then a right on Mt. Shasta.

I absolutely agree there's something not right about that and EN would have gone by his house, which if you read the confession there isn't anything beyond going to his house where he directs the driver to go anywhere (it isn't to say EN didn't want to keep going after he had checked on his house, but his confession doesn't actually say he directed the driver to keep going rather than the driver doing that on his own initiative). One possible explanation that actually would be consistent with what TM is alleged to have done earlier that night was that she drove home to get further armed as EN thought was going on, which she had already shown that evening that she would drive home not for safety but to get armed for the purpose of going back out again. The first time she didn't go inside the house either after the alleged death threat when she returned home, so her not being in the house after a minute would be consistent as well, so that all would have been within her same pattern of behavior from just 10-20 minutes prior. Another explanation was that at the time the Audi arrived there were people outside/in the car in addition to BM/TM. If you read EN's confession per Mogg you'll see that he says that he saw 'heads' - not a head - in the car in addition to the person running (presumably BM), which would mean there was at least 3 people in or near the Buick rather than the 2 alleged by the Meyers. This could have been more people getting into the car on the return of the Buick as part of arming up or those 3 or more people could have been in the car all along and it was slower getting everyone out compared to if it had just been BM/TM without extra passengers. If it was just BM/TM alone and they went home for the purpose of safety rather than other reasons, I do not see why they wouldn't have been safely inside by the time the Audi arrived. All that being said, even with these other scenarios, it wouldn't mean what EN did would necessarily be legal.
 
LOL! That could be it! BM couldn't get her out of the car because she was refusing to get out because she wanted to go back out again!
I can envision her screaming at him to GET BACK IN THE CAR! :tantrum:
 
No, it doesn't matter what he thought, otherwise paranoid people could shoot people all the time and get away with it.

The threat has to be real and imminent and that has to be proven.

The actual or perceived threat has to be reasonable and imminent, but it doesn't have to be real:
"Actual danger is not necessary to justify a
killing in self-defense. A person has a right to defend
from apparent danger to the same extent as he would from
actual danger
. The person who kills is justified if:
1. He is confronted by the appearance of imminent danger
which arouses in his mind an honest belief and fear that
he is about to be killed or suffer great bodily injury
and; he acts solely upon these appearances and his fear
and actual beliefs and; a reasonable person in a similar
situation would believe himself to be in like danger
.
The killing is justified even if it develops afterward
that the person killing was mistaken about the extent of
danger
."
It isn't to say that even given this EN would qualify, but for legal self-defense you do not have to prove real imminent danger, but if a reasonable person in the same circumstances would perceive imminent danger. This is why prisons aren't filled with cops who killed people with harmless objects that were mistaken by the cop wrongly thinking a gun was being drawn on them.
 
From there, I believe they went East on Alta, left on Carmel, all the way up to Cherry River, left onto Cherry River, checked it out via spotlight, turned around and check it out again with the spot light (this would be when it's seen in the actual part of the video we see), then turned right onto Carmel and ended up on Mt. Shasta.

Then there would be the Audi on the CCTV video twice within a short time near the Carmel/Cherry River intersection, which isn't to say there isn't additional footage showing that.
 
EN lied because he doesn't want a murder rap, yes everyone gets that. When I look at the Meyers stories or whatever, there were more than one person involved in the incident and not everyone who was involved is going to get their stories straight. I personally don't think much of what comes out of RM mouth because he wasn't there. What I'm basing my theory on is what I read in the transcripts, not what the news or talking heads are saying or what's on You Tube. From the transcripts/police reports, I don't see much lying going on. MOO!

How do you characterize the never-ending changing of stories. Surely nobody could call it "inconsistencies". Saying that BM ran out of the house with his gun and then later saying he was in the car for the shootout is far more than inconsistent. That is one example. I call it lying.
 
It doesn't take a legal scholar to know that if I don't know that someone shot at me, then I don't know that I'm in imminent danger, therefore, I can't shoot at them.

You don't have to actually be shot at to feel in imminent danger. You can see a gun pointed at you, someone could be threatening you with a knife or beating you up on the sidewalk. Like GZ.
 
You don't have to actually be shot at to feel in imminent danger. You can see a gun pointed at you, someone could be threatening you with a knife or beating you up on the sidewalk. Like GZ.

LOL, of course--that is why GZ got off. But there is none of that here which is why EN will not.
 
It doesn't matter if he saw the gun at the first shooting incident. That event was over when the Meyers retreated.

Yes, but it has been said that anybody has every right to drive down any street. If EN happened to be behind the M's car and saw a gun produced on Mt. Shasta, whether he heard shots or not, if he saw a gun at that point, then he did have reason to feel threatened.
 
Yes, but it has been said that anybody has every right to drive down any street. If EN happened to be behind the M's car and saw a gun produced on Mt. Shasta, whether he heard shots or not, if he saw a gun at that point, then he did have reason to feel threatened.


Not doing hypotheticals--waste of time.
 
How do you characterize the never-ending changing of stories. Surely nobody could call it "inconsistencies". Saying that BM ran out of the house with his gun and then later saying he was in the car for the shootout is far more than inconsistent. That is one example. I call it lying.

I characterize them as outright bald-faced lies intended to impede the police investigation into the shooting by covering up crucially significant elements of what happened.
 
The Audi was already on Alta at the time of the shooting. It was right at the intersection of Alta and Villa Monterey facing sideways towards West on Alta. When the M's backed up and went down Cherry, the Audi simply had to go straight on Alta. Both cars were probably going equally fast. As the Audi passed Carmel, the buick and Audi were likely at both ends of Carmel. EN said he can't believe the buick is going to his house and tells the Audi to turn around, he knows a shortcut. There's no reason to believe they were very far down Alta when EN said that. The Audi could have made a U-turn or backed into Elysian to turn.

From there, I believe they went East on Alta, left on Carmel, all the way up to Cherry River, left onto Cherry River, checked it out via spotlight, turned around and check it out again with the spot light (this would be when it's seen in the actual part of the video we see), then turned right onto Carmel and ended up on Mt. Shasta.

TM and BM still being in the car at the house could be simply because TM was freaking out with a panic attack. I know I would be. Adrenaline causes three responses: fight, flight and freeze. BM could have been dealing with a frozen TM. Heck, based on her first idea of heading out there to get them, maybe she was telling him they needed to go back out there and kill them. For whatever reason, BM was trying to get his mother out of the car when he saw the Audi coming.

Note to self: Never buy a house on a street with brick walls surrounding the street, or where the houses have brick walls surrounding the individual properties.

BBM: LOL, too funny :) Your post makes sense, thank you! That would explain the Audi video. Plus I'm sure TM was freaking out, I'm sure BM was too.
 
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