NV NV - Wellington, WhtMale 574UMNV, 35-50, off Sand Canyon Road, Mar'92 - #1

[Sleuthster]

Here is an unusual scenario but anything is possible...

What if the person who owned this car had broken down and flagged someone down for help and murdered them and stole their vehicle? Just a possibility, people kill over much less than a vehicle, after all.

The vin # of the vehicle or tag registration would not have come back to the person LE contacted that was alive I assume because they said they talked with them.

 

[daisytrail]

There has to be some prints somewhere on or in this car. Also dog hair.

Had the car been cleaned?

If you guys are saying you don't know if the car is related or not, then I'm assuming is was cleaned, so therefore RELATED

The car is the key

Oh, I think LE thinks the car is related. At this point, so many years later, there has to be a good reason; therefore, I think the car is in some way related.

However, that long ago, I don't think people were as sophisticated about DNA, nor was DNA as sophisticated as now. Fingerprints, though? Everyone knew about fingerprints.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Correction...
The abandoned car was found 5 months prior to the body discovery, not 7 months as stated in my previous post.

Some excellent questions have been raised, some of which we can not publicly discuss, but here are answers to some that we can:

We can't provide the identity of the owner, but we will look into what details we can provide about the car that may or may not help with identifying the victim. We will follow up with a later post on this.

If possible, please include if there are any notes or recollections of personal belongings in the vehicle that indicated a traveler, a camper, or a transient living out of the car.

Once the pic of the hair is posted, you will see just how red it is. There is no doubt his hair was mainly reddish brown.

That definitely rules out the strawberry blonde leads. I'm wondering if its the type of reddish brown that is often considered brown until the sunlight lightens it. A family might have reported the missing person as having brown hair, but spending time outdoors could have brought out the red in it. When I see the picture of the hair, I'll have a better idea of if it's worth searching for missing people with brown hair.

This "Campsite" was not a campsite at all. It was originally described as such, but it doesn't appear from what was recovered that it was actually a campsite at all. It is our theory that what was once thought to be a campsite might possibly be a blanket that was used to carry/conceal/wrap our subject in and other "typical desert trash" that is common in the area.

The makeshift campsite inspired my theory for the leads I sent via PM. That still doesn't rule out the auburn hair leads since the same choice could result in someone ending up in a situation like this.

This would be more "casino country", kwim? Not to say cartels weren't active or anything, I have no idea about that. I don't get a casino connection feeling here either, just saying.

I'm aware it's casino country and mafia is nearby. The cartel is more cut the hands and feet off than mafia. Mafia is better at disappearing bodies IMO. It could be as simple as a fight over casino winnings. At this time, I'm not trying to solve the murder. I'm trying to identify the body. Any information about his lifestyle or who he associated with might be a clue to his identity. I'm not willing to rule anything out on a feeling.

Why Wellington? On mapquest it looks like some rural desert area. There are highways and an interstate in the area according to the map but it doesn't look like it's an easy place for someone to get to in order to dump a body. It is possible though since the hands and feet where missing (and presumably cut off?)and they apparently didn't want the person found or identified. But it just seems really off the beaten track as they say.

I would think off the beaten path would be ideal for dumping a body.

There has to be some prints somewhere on or in this car. Also dog hair.

Had the car been cleaned?

If you guys are saying you don't know if the car is related or not, then I'm assuming is was cleaned, so therefore RELATED

The car is the key

I'll bet there is very limited information on the car. Since it was found abandoned 5 months prior, it probably wasn't processed since there was no indication it was related to a murder at the time it was found. It was likely impounded without much inspection by LE, and auctioned or junked within a month of being towed.

 

[Equestrianista]

What I meant is what if the owner of the abandoned car had flagged someone down and murdered them for their vehicle, not that the abandoned vehicle belongs to the victim.

 

[Miss Muffet]

What I meant is what if the owner of the abandoned car had flagged someone down and murdered them for their vehicle, not that the abandoned vehicle belongs to the victim.

That doesn't provide us with leads to the identity of the body though.

 

[Miss Muffet]

In regards to wondering why the anonymous caller would call if he/she was the killer, I can imagine a family member might want to end other family members suffering the don't-know-what-happened part of having a missing family member. Maybe the car was reported abandoned in hopes LE would discover the body. When that didn't occur, he/she called again to report the body five months later. In addition to wanting to provide closure for other family members, another motivation for wanting the body being discovered could be life insurance.

As a result, it might be worth investigating if the car owner has any missing family members in his/her immediate or extended family.

 

[daisytrail]

If possible, please include if there are any notes or recollections of personal belongings in the vehicle that indicated a traveler, a camper, or a transient living out of the car.


That definitely rules out the strawberry blonde leads. I'm wondering if its the type of reddish brown that is often considered brown until the sunlight lightens it. A family might have reported the missing person as having brown hair, but spending time outdoors could have brought out the red in it. When I see the picture of the hair, I'll have a better idea of if it's worth searching for missing people with brown hair.


The makeshift campsite inspired my theory for the leads I sent via PM. That still doesn't rule out the auburn hair leads since the same choice could result in someone ending up in a situation like this.


I'm aware it's casino country and mafia is nearby. The cartel is more cut the hands and feet off than mafia. Mafia is better at disappearing bodies IMO. It could be as simple as a fight over casino winnings. At this time, I'm not trying to solve the murder. I'm trying to identify the body. Any information about his lifestyle or who he associated with might be a clue to his identity. I'm not willing to rule anything out on a feeling.


I would think off the beaten path would be ideal for dumping a body.


I'll bet there is very limited information on the car. Since it was found abandoned 5 months prior, it probably wasn't processed since there was no indication it was related to a murder at the time it was found. It was likely impounded without much inspection by LE, and auctioned or junked within a month of being towed.

Good points. Seven teeth missing? This person was one of the following: Unable to afford a dentist for all but the most pain-relieving work. Extremely afraid of dentists, but he did have a root canal. Mostly ignorant of what it took to care for his teeth. Perhaps this person had been in a shelter of some sort and had been referred for low-cost (government-funded perhaps) dental work. I would look for someone who had accessed either shelters or mental hospitals. If he spent time in a mental hospital, he would not likely have had the dog there. Is this guy a drifter? Could he afford the upkeep on a car? Not even if he owned it, but even if he stole it. Was the dog a recent acquisition? I wonder if the woman who saw the dog also fed the dog. Why would this matter? If the dog was fed but kept returning in the direction of where the body was found, he may have been the dead man's dog. If not, he may just have been a hungry dog. It is hard to tell the dog's physical state under all the hair (which had not been recently groomed in the photo).

Why would the car owner not have contacted the police about a missing car?

I certainly have more questions than answers, don't I?

 

[Tulessa]

I've searched the ends of the internet for a shirt with this same design, and I've found every combination of a Hawk and sun, except this one, it seems, ugh.

If the hands and feet were cut off and not just lost post mortem, shouldn't there be some "tool marks" from where they were removed?

I would love to know the owner of the car's explanation of why he left the car there.

Was the car searched for any forensic evidence? If the victim was killed elsewhere and transferred to that location in that car, or even killed in that car, seems like there would deff be some blood.

And it would be interesting to know what the owner of that car did for work back then.

I bet Jacie could help you with that. She like me, is Native American. She's from out west. I'll give her a shout.

 

[tlcya]

That dog looks like a Chow

Chow mix. That is what I was thinking too.

 

[Equestrianista]

It may not lead to the identity of this person, But I was just making a suggestion as a possible motive.

I'm also curious to know if the car had been reported stolen.

 

[Equestrianista]

I think the dog looks like a Chow and German Shepard mix, or chow and retriever.

 

[micheleonelonly]

A few Missing persons with Red/Auburn hair, in Namus;

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/19847/2
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/25907/5
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/13470/19
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/13214/22

Doenetwork missing persons;

http://doenetwork.org/cases/4187dmor.html
http://doenetwork.org/cases/979dmca.html
http://doenetwork.org/cases/4111dmpa.html

They all seem like good enough possibles except Timothy Sparrow, whose date LKA is actually 5 months after John Doe was found. The height for these men all seem to be on target.

 

[mrsobrien]

Good points. Seven teeth missing? This person was one of the following: Unable to afford a dentist for all but the most pain-relieving work. Extremely afraid of dentists, but he did have a root canal. Mostly ignorant of what it took to care for his teeth. Perhaps this person had been in a shelter of some sort and had been referred for low-cost (government-funded perhaps) dental work. I would look for someone who had accessed either shelters or mental hospitals. If he spent time in a mental hospital, he would not likely have had the dog there. Is this guy a drifter? Could he afford the upkeep on a car? Not even if he owned it, but even if he stole it. Was the dog a recent acquisition? I wonder if the woman who saw the dog also fed the dog. Why would this matter? If the dog was fed but kept returning in the direction of where the body was found, he may have been the dead man's dog. If not, he may just have been a hungry dog. It is hard to tell the dog's physical state under all the hair (which had not been recently groomed in the photo).

Why would the car owner not have contacted the police about a missing car?

I certainly have more questions than answers, don't I?

Add "drug user " to the list of reasons a person could have lost 7 teeth. That is not to judge the victim, of course, just another possibility.

 

[Willow Knight]

Why would someone report a body and want to be anonymous? If the same anonymous person reported the car then it could be the killer.

But why would the killer do such a thing?

This interesting info has been stuck in my mind. TWO anonymous calls, I believe they are connected due to being close in proximity. Especially in that area. It's like a call was made regarding the car first, when nothing came of that call, a second call was made regarding the remains. It is my feeling the caller wanted the body to be found. Maybe due to remorse/guilt (not certain what word to use here)? It appears to me they knew each other, the victim and the 'stabber'. Possibly they were friends or relatives , possibly knew friends or relatives of the victim and wanted some type of 'closure'? That car could be the key to some answers.

Wonder how many people had access or used that vehicle?

 

[Equestrianista]

They all seem like good enough possibles except Timothy Sparrow, whose date LKA is actually 5 months after John Doe was found. The height for these men all seem to be on target.

The detectives/law enforcement who are working this case had posted for us to consider even people who were reported missing after the UID was found, because sometimes dates are wrong or are even purposely reported missing at the wrong date.

 

[carbuff]

This interesting info has been stuck in my mind. TWO anonymous calls, I believe they are connected due to being close in proximity. Especially in that area. It's like a call was made regarding the car first, when nothing came of that call, a second call was made regarding the remains. It is my feeling the caller wanted the body to be found. Maybe due to remorse/guilt (not certain what word to use here)? It appears to me they knew each other, the victim and the 'stabber'. Possibly they were friends or relatives , possibly knew friends or relatives of the victim and wanted some type of 'closure'? That car could be the key to some answers.

Wonder how many people had access or used that vehicle?

Maybe the caller was part of the killer's family or circle and knew what had happened but was afraid to have the killer find out who called.

 

[Jacie Estes]

With the hawk, canyon and sun graphic, I wonder if the Grand Canyon ever sold a shirt like that in the gift shop or any other place in 4 corners area.

Update....

The good news is we now have a DNA profile entered into CODIS for our John Doe, which is a huge step in the right direction! Unfortunately, we do not have any "hits" on the profile at this time.

We need your help. Attached is a photograph of a piece of a T-shirt. We believe the T-shirt was originally white. We need your help with identifying the design. Does anyone recognize it? Thank you in advance for your time and efforts!

 

[Miss Muffet]

Good points. Seven teeth missing? This person was one of the following: Unable to afford a dentist for all but the most pain-relieving work. Extremely afraid of dentists, but he did have a root canal. Mostly ignorant of what it took to care for his teeth. Perhaps this person had been in a shelter of some sort and had been referred for low-cost (government-funded perhaps) dental work. I would look for someone who had accessed either shelters or mental hospitals.

It says 8 missing teeth before death, but I'm wondering about the condition of the remaining teeth and how long before death he lost those teeth.

Is it possible he lost those teeth during the battery that resulted in his murder? Could he have been brutally beaten before dying? Teeth can fall out when people are punched, right? Or could he have been tortured for information?

Could the assumption these missing teeth were part of his dental record be causing difficulty in matching him in the missing person database?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Update....

The good news is we now have a DNA profile entered into CODIS for our John Doe, which is a huge step in the right direction! Unfortunately, we do not have any "hits" on the profile at this time.

We need your help. Attached is a photograph of a piece of a T-shirt. We believe the T-shirt was originally white. We need your help with identifying the design. Does anyone recognize it? Thank you in advance for your time and efforts!

Just a SWAG, but those look like turkey feathers to me. Wild turkey whiskey t-shirt?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Another random idea. I will assume that the county welfare and disability offices have been contacted to see who, within that age group stopped picking up their checks about that time? Might be worthwhile if possible.