Court Appearances and Canadian Legal Terms

[Alethea Dice]

Just throwing this out there.... Would lack of payment negate client privilege? Would it be possible that DP perhaps could be called as a witness if payment was not paid? Not sure on legalities of this...Asking the question...
Could this be the conflict that is being questioned by the defense?

JMO MOO

I believe that solicitor-client privilege and confidentiality continues until such time as the client waives it. Of course, that's keeping in mind that there is a difference between communications and actual physical evidence, and that there are a few exceptions such as when there is a threat to public safety or the innocence of the accused is at stake.

Your duty of confidentiality protects all information about current and former clients. The
death of a former client does not alter this duty of confidentiality which persists after the
end of the retainer and survives the client’s death.

My client fired me. She is now alleging that I forced her into a settlement
when I was her counsel. She is not suing me. She is involved in
enforcement proceedings with respect to the settlement. The lawyer
opposing my former client wants me to give evidence about the advice I
gave her and the instructions I received leading up to the settlement. May I
answer these questions?
Solicitor-client privilege and the duty of confidentiality survive the end of the lawyer-client
relationship. The client may waive the privilege or the duty in an expressed or implied
way.

http://www.cba.org/cba/activities/PDF/Privilege%20FAQ%20Eng%20-%20final.pdf

 

[Carli]

Does anybody know how many trials are in the offing? Let's see, we have three murders @ DM and two murders @ MS plus CN. Theoretically, that could add up to anywhere from 1 to 6 trials!

SIX trials: DM x 3 (TB, WM and LB), MS x 2 (TB and LB) and CN x 1.

FIVE trials: DM+MS together for TB (but each tried separately for death of LB and DM alone for WM); plus CN on her own.

FOUR trials: DM+MS together for each of TB and LB, DM on his own for WM, and CN.

THREE trials: DM+MS+CN together for TB; DM+MS together for LB and DM alone for WM

I can't see less than three, at this point. With two years already since charges were laid and the first trial not even set to commence until Jan 2016, their incarceration might outdistance guilty sentences, especially when factoring in the usual schedules of appeals, etc. And interested sleuthers may have already slipped into the great beyond before verdicts are announced. MOO. IMHO. Oh, bother!

 

[Kamille]

So what tall tale has DM told his attorney that they are so desperately trying to prevent the public from hearing to blow it apart before it even makes it to trial?

Is MS's attorney requesting this top secret pretrial treatment? Or is it just DM's?

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

It appears to me that they are playing every angle that they can. I think we knew as things started unravelling that this was going to be an extremely complicated and detailed investigation that goes beyond murder. So many involved in so many things and DM is not stupid. He's got his lawyers doing what's best for him and if that means tying things up with little things to confuse and baffle then that's what he's doing. I'm not surprised at the posturing and the arguments. I'm also not surprised by the publication ban. Quite typical. Somehow they have to keep the jury pool as untainted as possible I would think. Just leads me to think that there are going to be a lot of bombshells go off once the actual trial gets underway. Reminds me of all the pre trial stuff that went on with Karla Homolka/Paul Bernardo.

 

[SnooperDuper]

So what tall tale has DM told his attorney that they are so desperately trying to prevent the public from hearing to blow it apart before it even makes it to trial?

Is MS's attorney requesting this top secret pretrial treatment? Or is it just DM's?

MOO

DM has hired a media specialist lawyer, FM, to handle the current privacy issues, whatever they are. MS has not hired any additional special occasion lawyers. I think this is just DM's gambit to keep as much as possible under his hat.

When DM was first arrested, before WM's death was reexamined, DP commented that he didn't see any depression in DM as a result of his father's death (video) and of course we now see why that might be (i.e., you're not sad to see someone you want dead, dead). I wonder what kind of things DM said to DP before the whole thing unraveled and everyone started looking at WM and LB's death more closely.

 

[matou]

I think MS and DM are going to play against each other. Even with a publication ban on details, journalists always put hints in their reporting ie. Smich and Millard sat as far as possible from each other. Smich staring straight forward. JMO

 

[Kamille]

I think MS and DM are going to play against each other. Even with a publication ban on details, journalists always put hints in their reporting ie. Smich and Millard sat as far as possible from each other. Smich staring straight forward. JMO

Well I'm hoping with the physical descriptions being given of their last appearance, MS has done the right thing and looks well because he's at peace with his decision and his fate and that DM is distraught over what is about to come out in court about him in the coming years. Because that's all a narcissistic psychopath would concern himself with in his present situation. Victim's be damned, he's the victim in his mind. And it sounds like he's feeling sorry for himself if he is having trouble keeping up with his health and physical appearance. His carefully crafted facade might be cracking and getting ready for full implosion and that's all he cares about IMO.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

DM has a new hired gun specifically to keep the media out:

Defence counsel Faisal Mirza is acting as Millard's lawyer on a specific matter pertaining to the case, but hasn't been retained as his lawyer for the duration of the trial. He argued that the public should be barred from these hearings, and told CBC Hamilton outside of the court that it's a matter of solicitor-client privilege.

"Ideally, counsel are mindful of the freedom of the press and we want to accommodate that as well," Mirza said. "Believe it or not, defence lawyers as well want to make sure that the public is properly informed of the case so nobody pre-judges things — especially during the jury selection process."

"We have a legal obligation — not just to our client, but also to the profession and the court, so it's important this got raised."

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/lawyers-fight-publics-ban-tim-123830382.html

 

[Juballee]

I wonder if perhaps the new lawyer is arguing something that DP cannot argue because of privilege?

 

[Alethea Dice]

DM has a new hired gun specifically to keep the media out:



https://ca.news.yahoo.com/lawyers-fight-publics-ban-tim-123830382.html

I'm not seeing where this lawyer is a "media specialist" lawyer. If the arguments concern discussions that fall under solicitor-client privilege, why shouldn't the media be barred from hearing that? If the media was arguing against the in camera sessions, then it seems logical to assume that the reasons it was held that way would be discussed. There is always a publication ban on pre-trial hearings and it is only the parts that involve the solicitor-client privilege that the press will be excluded from. What's the big deal? They will still hear all the rest of the arguments and be able to report on them after the trial, same as with any trial in Canada.

JMO

 

[swedie]

Well I'm hoping with the physical descriptions being given of their last appearance, MS has done the right thing and looks well because he's at peace with his decision and his fate and that DM is distraught over what is about to come out in court about him in the coming years. Because that's all a narcissistic psychopath would concern himself with in his present situation. Victim's be damned, he's the victim in his mind. And it sounds like he's feeling sorry for himself if he is having trouble keeping up with his health and physical appearance. His carefully crafted facade might be cracking and getting ready for full implosion and that's all he cares about IMO.

MOO

You make a great point Kamille in the comparison of MS's and DM's physical appearance. MS seems to have come to terms with his situation, current and future and DM hasn't. Maybe MS wasn't as involved as DM and he has hopes of a much lesser sentence. Does DM know he has no hope in hell of ever leaving prison, therefore his plan is to starve himself to death? No doubt MS and DM have seen all, if not most of the disclosure by now and can predict their destiny. MOO.

Those carefully crafted letters which found their way into the MSM were intentionally wrote. This is his tactic to try and convince people he is innocent and garner sympathy. It's his only hope. I doubt very much he was surprised about jail monitoring. He really cannot be that naive can he? :thinking: MOO.

But one month after writing those words in March 2014, Millard was charged with two more murders — that of his 72-year old father, Wayne, and Millard’s sometime lover, Laura Babcock,

The words are those of someone who is simultaneously manipulative and naive. he’s surprised to learn that his correspondence and visits are monitored by prison officials. After one of his letters leaks on the internet, he agrees to route his mail back and forth via his lawyer.

“Once the dust settles, once trial is over, and all information is released, people will again smile and say good things about me,” he wrote. “I really do believe this. I just have to endure this to get there.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

 

[Variant]

I'm not seeing where this lawyer is a "media specialist" lawyer. If the arguments concern discussions that fall under solicitor-client privilege, why shouldn't the media be barred from hearing that? If the media was arguing against the in camera sessions, then it seems logical to assume that the reasons it was held that way would be discussed. There is always a publication ban on pre-trial hearings and it is only the parts that involve the solicitor-client privilege that the press will be excluded from. What's the big deal? They will still hear all the rest of the arguments and be able to report on them after the trial, same as with any trial in Canada.

JMO

"Mirza was hired specifically to deal with the media issues in this case."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5543421-bosma-pretrial-open-to-public-after-media-challenge/

 

[swedie]

DM has a new hired gun specifically to keep the media out:



https://ca.news.yahoo.com/lawyers-fight-publics-ban-tim-123830382.html

That's the way it does appear, doesn't it? This lawyer making his debut just in time for the hearing to keep media and the public out of the courtroom. Doesn't sound like he's going to be hanging around though. I would say that's a fair assessment Snooper. Let's see if and when he makes his next appearance. MOO.

 

[swedie]

"Mirza was hired specifically to deal with the media issues in this case."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5543421-bosma-pretrial-open-to-public-after-media-challenge/

Thank you Variant.

Also from that article...
Ongoing problems...hmmm. :thinking:
BBM - just imagine the tension in that prisoner's box. :croc: Did this courtroom only have one prisoner's box or was this seating arrangement intentional?
MOO.

Millard's expected trial lawyer — Deepak Paradkar — was not in court. There have been ongoing problems with Paradkar not yet being properly retained by Millard.

Millard and Smich were both in the courtroom, sitting as far from each other as possible in the prisoners' box.

 

[Arnie M]

I wonder if perhaps the new lawyer is arguing something that DP cannot argue because of privilege?

Yes , I bet it is a snag like that.

And I bet there are a lot more intertwining tentacles to be sorted out in this (these) cases.

Not sure if it would be called a Lawyers dream or a Lawyers Nightmare.

 

[Sphinx]

DM has a new hired gun specifically to keep the media out:



https://ca.news.yahoo.com/lawyers-fight-publics-ban-tim-123830382.html

I hope that when trial time finally arrives in 2016 that it is televised. Is that too much to ask ? Is there anything in Canada like Court TV in the USA ? As I recall, the Bernardo/Homolka trials were not televised, but the news coverage everyday in the newspapers, and on the evening news was extensive. The internet will no doubt play a big part in the coverage as well.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Well I'm hoping with the physical descriptions being given of their last appearance, MS has done the right thing and looks well because he's at peace with his decision and his fate and that DM is distraught over what is about to come out in court about him in the coming years. Because that's all a narcissistic psychopath would concern himself with in his present situation. Victim's be damned, he's the victim in his mind. And it sounds like he's feeling sorry for himself if he is having trouble keeping up with his health and physical appearance. His carefully crafted facade might be cracking and getting ready for full implosion and that's all he cares about IMO.

MOO

It could just be related to the fact that MS is more accustomed to life on the inside. It's not his first time on the merry-go-round. And the fact that he has more opportunity to move around and socialize. He's only in and out of solitary last I heard, not in it constantly like DM.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

You make a great point Kamille in the comparison of MS's and DM's physical appearance. MS seems to have come to terms with his situation, current and future and DM hasn't. Maybe MS wasn't as involved as DM and he has hopes of a much lesser sentence. Does DM know he has no hope in hell of ever leaving prison, therefore his plan is to starve himself to death? No doubt MS and DM have seen all, if not most of the disclosure by now and can predict their destiny. MOO.

Those carefully crafted letters which found their way into the MSM were intentionally wrote. This is his tactic to try and convince people he is innocent and garner sympathy. It's his only hope. I doubt very much he was surprised about jail monitoring. He really cannot be that naive can he? :thinking: MOO.

But one month after writing those words in March 2014, Millard was charged with two more murders — that of his 72-year old father, Wayne, and Millard’s sometime lover, Laura Babcock,

The words are those of someone who is simultaneously manipulative and naive. he’s surprised to learn that his correspondence and visits are monitored by prison officials. After one of his letters leaks on the internet, he agrees to route his mail back and forth via his lawyer.

“Once the dust settles, once trial is over, and all information is released, people will again smile and say good things about me,” he wrote. “I really do believe this. I just have to endure this to get there.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

Has MS's charges been reduced? If not, he has no hope of a lesser sentence. First degree is life, no negotiating.

I agree that those letters were carefully crafted - in MSM, that is. Written with multiple letters to appear as one to misconstrue their meaning or intent. Is he that naive? Don't know. Those are the journalist's words/opinions. There's nothing in the shared letters that says that. The first letter that was leaked on the internet was from a stranger who wrote to him. That person leaked the letter, not prison officials. And that is no doubt the letter that convinced him to send them through his lawyer, since the others hadn't been leaked yet.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

"Mirza was hired specifically to deal with the media issues in this case."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5543421-bosma-pretrial-open-to-public-after-media-challenge/

That doesn't mean he is a "media specialist" lawyer. That means he was hired to deal with the media's argument against the in camera hearings. Perhaps because DP couldn't.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Thank you Variant.

Also from that article...
Ongoing problems...hmmm. :thinking:
BBM - just imagine the tension in that prisoner's box. :croc: Did this courtroom only have one prisoner's box or was this seating arrangement intentional?
MOO.

Millard's expected trial lawyer — Deepak Paradkar — was not in court. There have been ongoing problems with Paradkar not yet being properly retained by Millard.

Millard and Smich were both in the courtroom, sitting as far from each other as possible in the prisoners' box.

Most only have one prisoner's box. Here is sample layout.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/images/justice-ont/sample_courtroom_scj_en_large.jpg

Some court rooms, the box only holds four. Some have been expanded to hold eight accused. One court room in Waterloo has individual prisoner boxes. In the Bandidos trial, all six accused shared the same prisoner's box.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov....l_12/Court_Services_Annual_Report_FULL_EN.pdf



HTH