Discussions on Formal Sentencing Hearing - Jodi Arias #10

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Madeleine74 said:
I guess in all the cases I've followed (and there have been a lot over the years), I've never before seen interest in the thoughts and feelings of the killer. Interest in the cases, yes. Interest in the various players in the case, yes. Interest in the family and the victim(s), yes. Interest in the circus surrounding the big cases, yes.

But this is the first time I've seen such intense focus on the killer, specifically wondering what she's feeling, thinking, how she perceives things, what her opinion might be, and I find that an interesting phenomenon from a sociological standpoint. There's also energy on waiting or hoping the killer will feel something specific (as defined by whoever is wishing it), will feel remorse, will see her own circumstances in the way that her spectators want her to see them. Usually the killer is just seen sort of as a blob -- a monster who did something evil and took one or more lives -- and what the killer thinks or what their opinion might be is not considered much, if at all. This changes somewhat if the killer is someone who was famous before their criminal case.

To me, as someone who looks at & studies sociological aspects to criminal cases, this is an indication of how important Arias really is to a base of case followers and it's an indication she (an otherwise fairly uninteresting killer) has managed to capture a high level of attention and get under people's skin who have never met her and never will. It's something new and different, and it's interesting to work out if it's the killer who is somehow different or something else entirely.

This is it's own circus within the larger circus and it's a subject I find interesting. I question it because I'm trying to understand what's underneath it, as it's an area of study I'm pursuing.
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I think most of us are interested in what goes on in her mind just like you are interested in the thoughts, feelings and motives of people who are following the case. I think that's interesting, too. LOL, it never occurred to me to follow any case for any other reason other than wanting to know what's in the murderer's mind! But, that's my specific interest! To me, people's minds are fascinating beyond belief! Even though I know different people may have different thoughts, it still surprises me that there are people who couldn't care less about what goes on in someone else's mind.

I think this is the way it will be from here on out as long as people continue to put every little thought on social media. We've never had this opportunity before the internet and now it's even more information for us if criminals are communicating publicly from jail and prison.

This is a case where the murderer is prolific in putting everything in writing about herself - some true, some false, and some of it unintentionally true because of the manner and content in which she writes or speaks about herself. I hope I'm saying that right - that all of us reveal more about ourselves than we sometimes realize. Jodi Arias tells us what SHE wants us to know, but what comes across is what's behind her words. Argh, I'm not expressing myself as clearly as I want to.

Example: her continued attempts at telling us how superior or brilliant she is. Some people take things at face value and those are the people who will believe cmja and laviolette until they die. Others will see desperate attempts to try and convince us and conclude that she might have low self-esteem. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".

If she had never written a word in a journal or letter, if she had not testified for herself, if we hadn't known anything about her thoughts via twitter and numerous tv interviews - we wouldn't have the riches to be curious about.

There are hundreds (or thousands?) of murderers who have never uttered a peep to the public, haven't written journals or left a trail of thousands of text messages and texts, so we have nothing to be interested in.

Other cases have generated the same interest, we just haven't had as much to work with. She has big mouth and an even bigger ego. Great combination!
 
ok....I think I figured out what the last argument was about. I am listening to retrial #30, about 1:13:00 where Dr Demarte is being questioned about chats Travis had with several people regarding JA. In April, just before she left.

It was regarding the mystery person that JA claimed was telling her what Travis had "been up" to regarding his dating life. Spying on him. Travis actually believed there was such a person at first and that they were the ones that wrote the nasty letter to Lisa...and could have been the one slashing his tires.

That final argument was Travis finally realizing that there was no mystery person and that all a long it was Jodi spying on him and hacking his accounts. A couple days before he was killed he told Lisa it was JA that had been in the house when they were together...twice. All Travis wanted was for her to finally fess up to her stalking. He had had enough. He probably realized JA had ruined his relationship with Lisa and then probably with Mimi.

Travis still loved Lisa, and I think when he finally put all the pieces together...it was just too much for him, then JA probably added that she was going to confess to the bishop....just to completely ruin any chance ever that he would ever meet a nice Mormon girl he could marry. He threaten to expose her stalking to everyone at PPL, which then would have ruin JA's chances on stalking her next victim.

Travis not taking her to Cancun proved he was finally done traveling with her, and it was mostly over....so she killed him.
 
FelicityLemon said:
I think most of us are interested in what goes on in her mind just like you are interested in the thoughts, feelings and motives of people who are following the case. I think that's interesting, too. LOL, it never occurred to me to follow any case for any other reason other than wanting to know what's in the murderer's mind! But, that's my specific interest! To me, people's minds are fascinating beyond belief! Even though I know different people may have different thoughts, it still surprises me that there are people who couldn't care less about what goes on in someone else's mind.

I think this is the way it will be from here on out as long as people continue to put every little thought on social media. We've never had this opportunity before the internet and now it's even more information for us if criminals are communicating publicly from jail and prison.

This is a case where the murderer is prolific in putting everything in writing about herself - some true, some false, and some of it unintentionally true because of the manner and content in which she writes or speaks about herself. I hope I'm saying that right - that all of us reveal more about ourselves than we sometimes realize. Jodi Arias tells us what SHE wants us to know, but what comes across is what's behind her words. Argh, I'm not expressing myself as clearly as I want to.

Example: her continued attempts at telling us how superior or brilliant she is. Some people take things at face value and those are the people who will believe cmja and laviolette until they die. Others will see desperate attempts to try and convince us and conclude that she might have low self-esteem. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".

If she had never written a word in a journal or letter, if she had not testified for herself, if we hadn't known anything about her thoughts via twitter and numerous tv interviews - we wouldn't have the riches to be curious about.

There are hundreds (or thousands?) of murderers who have never uttered a peep to the public, haven't written journals or left a trail of thousands of text messages and texts, so we have nothing to be interested in.

Other cases have generated the same interest, we just haven't had as much to work with. She has big mouth and an even bigger ego. Great combination!
Click to expand...


BBM

No, you're totally spot on. Trying to make sense of all things Arias IS difficult to put into words, but you did a very good job of explaining the myriad reasons most of us are still here and feel a compulsion to see it through to the end. Thanks for your well-articulated thoughts.
 
I'm most interested in case facts and how they are prosecuted, so that's generally where my attention goes. Motive is interesting as that's part of the crime. Since I'm not a mind reader I can never know what anyone is thinking or feeling, most especially the defendant as they sit there in the courtroom or in their jail cell, and most of the time they're a blank slate onto which people enjoy assigning thoughts and feelings or when they do open their mouths it's usually some form of "I'm the real victim here," or "The state/county/cops/judge/DA are all out to get me & it's a conspiracy;" "I'm innocent, innocent I say!" or "babbleBabbleCrazyBabble" or "the deceased was a horrible person and here's why..." and/or a bunch of lies in addition. Seen that episode many times...rerun!
 
ShadyLady said:
Oh, ya maybe.

I am still curious as to why no one who dated JA has come out and really spilled the beans on her {they should be counting their lucky stars}. Only one I think was honest was one of JA's cousins. No one else.

And is Sandy Arias writing a book? Throughout the trial she seemed to be writing notes. She knew the true JA but of course she seems determined to protect her till the end.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking she is writing a book, and that's the reason the Arias family declared bankruptcy. Their bankruptcy would have been settled by now, and they can collect and keep in full whatever they earn from the book. Taking advantage of the system.....
 
FelicityLemon said:
Because some of us find the human psyche and behavior absolutely fascinating. We try and make sense where there is none. We thank our lucky stars that we are in no way like her or that we've never come across anyone like her. People like her remind us that we may not be as "bad" -for lack of a better word right now- as we think we think are.

Conversely, those of us who find this interesting could ask you why you continue to come here :D Other than that you mentioned that you love to debate, lol!
I say this not to get in your face, but for thought and conversation only.

:truce:
Click to expand...

Sometimes the Ignore button comes in useful?
 
I'm on the east coast(NY),and the Oxegen channel is replaying now the 2hr.episodes of "Snapped". It's all about the CMJA.
 
FelicityLemon said:
Conversely, those of us who find this interesting could ask you why you continue to come here :D Other than that you mentioned that you love to debate, lol!
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I gave a splendidly detailed answer of what all interests me in this case. This case is not a who-done-it, which is my preferred case type to follow, this was a slam-dunk guilty verdict. So the circus surrounding the case and the hold Arias has on many is the more interesting aspect of this trial & penalty phase. In fact the hoopla around the case is a perfect subject for a sociology paper I may soon be writing.
 
Watching"Snapped" and they showed showed some of her testiphony from the 1st trial. Boy she really does look different today. Jail has done a number on her looks,IMO.
 
More timing followup:

April 18, 2008 JA stole Travis' diamond ring.
May 31, 2008 Travis told a friend he had told JA he never wanted to see her again.

Probably in April was when JA stole his journal and Ipad...I think after she hacked his accounts and found out that he really did love Lisa, JA then went nuts. Travis probably quit giving her money and that's when JA called her mother for money and to help her move...all coming to a head April/May.
 
Koshka said:
Well, if you go by Stanford-Binet scoring it's actually "high average". They classify "average" as 90-109. But by any method of classification she's nowhere near the "Einstein" range (that would be 145 and above). She's seen her scores; I don't know why she's thinks she's as brilliant as she considers herself to be. I guess she'll have years to ponder that now.
Click to expand...

We might want to consider what "average" actually means. Most people on this forum would score higher than that, some substantially higher. Most people on this forum write better than Jodi does, because they aren't trying to use words or grammar constructions that are over their heads. So, lets not overestimate Jodi. Let's not overestimate her especially because those IQ tests (I don't know this for sure) are probably multiple choice. This does note reflect active knowledge. Jodi's knowledge is very passive. She can mimic word and grammar usage, but she rarely gets it quite right when she goes for high falutin'; however, this kind of usage is generally good enough to make choices on a multiple choice exam. Where Jodi excels is in manipulation. This takes a certain kind of brain: I mentioned yesterday for contrast that folks on the autism spectrum—even very high achievers—can't manipulate people with communication. Jodi may get IQ points for this quality, I don't know.

Other than manipulation, Jodi would not be assessed very highly in terms of raw brains, IMO. She gives herself away when she messes up, e.g., Green-witch, or not realizing how much blood a wound to a given body part would produce (head wounds are very bloody, in my experience, and those were probably the least bloody strikes she made at Travis).

News flash for Jodi: a person of "college material" caliber generally exceeds IQ 110.
Another news flash for Jodi: IQ is scored on a "bell curve". In other words, there is not an equal number of individuals at each score. "Normal" is 70% of the population. 15% are above "normal", 15% below. But there is also a margin for error, and retakes of the test will result in different scores. Most of the 15% above "normal" will be just over 115, if the test uses 115 for the norm (some use 119). The 15% above normal are also spread out to >145: the demographic as the numbers spread out reflects fewer and fewer brainy people.

For a nice clear, easy to read, description of IQ and bell curves, see http://www.i3mindware.com/what-is-an-iq-test-and-iq-score

Juan Martinez is light years ahead of Jodi in brains. He would score much higher on an IQ test. If we had his numbers for comparison, Jodi would look, very, very ordinary, I feel sure. Note how elevated JM's vocabulary is on the fly. And note how he communicates tactically and strategically, and he rarely uses a filler such as ummm, and all the information he has at his command. Plus, he's bilingual, I believe. These skills are extraordinary: they require raw talent, hard work, and hanging out with other folks who are very brainy. My guess is, he'd be up in the <.8% category.

Also, I believe JM and Demarte were strategically selective in how they referred to Jodi's scores. Demarte highlighted verbal abiiities, on purpose, IMO, because they could&#8212;in the minds of a juror&#8212;enhance the image of Jodi as someone who manipulates language, lies easily, mis-communicates purposefully, etc. Trap for Jodi. Note: we didn't hear about Jodi's math, logic, or reasoning skills (not to mention artistic skills). And the DT wouldn't dream of impugning Demarte's accuracy on the verbal scores: Jodi imagines she's genius in this regard. BOOM!
 
RickshawFan said:
I'm thinking she is writing a book, and that's the reason the Arias family declared bankruptcy. Their bankruptcy would have been settled by now, and they can collect and keep in full whatever they earn from the book. Taking advantage of the system.....
Click to expand...

Someone in the media (Beth Karas?) was recently asked about that and her response was something to the effect that, "who would buy a book about 'My daughter Jodi&#8212;Incorrigible Teenager Turned Remorseless Killer'." Unless mama Arias changes her tune, a la Jeffrey Dahmer's father Lionel, who wrote a heart-wrenching book full of remorse and introspection, I doubt there would be much of a market for a book from her.

ETA: I can only imagine that if she DID write a book, the Amazon reader reviews would make the vitriolic responses LaViolette got seem tame by comparison.
 
Luvrosco said:
What?:gaah: Why?
Click to expand...

Monica being Monica, says: Judge Stephens will call the matter at about 8:30 a.m. and the entire thing will start with a sizzlebar (which is what I have been affectionately calling the many sidebars with the white noise).

BBM

That's completely disingenuous. My clear recollection is that it was the one-and-only hWild from Wild About Trial who coined the phrase "sizzlebar" way back in 2013.

It's a small thing, but she should have given him credit for it. For her to give the impression that she came up with that term is dishonest and adds to the impression that she lacks credibility.
 
RickshawFan said:
I'm thinking she is writing a book, and that's the reason the Arias family declared bankruptcy. Their bankruptcy would have been settled by now, and they can collect and keep in full whatever they earn from the book. Taking advantage of the system.....
Click to expand...

Agreed, and it is completely taking advantage of the system if this is their plan. Theresa Giudice is sitting in federal prison right now for this same trick. I'm pretty darn sure someone has tipped their bankruptcy trustee off on the current goings on with them, the website, the trust, etc..
 
Madeleine74 said:
I guess in all the cases I've followed (and there have been a lot over the years), I've never before seen interest in the thoughts and feelings of the killer. Interest in the cases, yes. Interest in the various players in the case, yes. Interest in the family and the victim(s), yes. Interest in the circus surrounding the big cases, yes.

But this is the first time I've seen such intense focus on the killer, specifically wondering what she's feeling, thinking, how she perceives things, what her opinion might be, and I find that an interesting phenomenon from a sociological standpoint. There's also energy on waiting or hoping the killer will feel something specific (as defined by whoever is wishing it), will feel remorse, will see her own circumstances in the way that her spectators want her to see them. Usually the killer is just seen sort of as a blob -- a monster who did something evil and took one or more lives -- and what the killer thinks or what their opinion might be is not considered much, if at all. This changes somewhat if the killer is someone who was famous before their criminal case.

To me, as someone who looks at & studies sociological aspects to criminal cases, this is an indication of how important Arias really is to a base of case followers and it's an indication she (an otherwise fairly uninteresting killer) has managed to capture a high level of attention and get under people's skin who have never met her and never will. It's something new and different, and it's interesting to work out if it's the killer who is somehow different or something else entirely.

This is it's own circus within the larger circus and it's a subject I find interesting. I question it because I'm trying to understand what's underneath it, as it's an area of study I'm pursuing.
Click to expand...

For me this case has caught my attention in ways no other case ever has. If I am following a case I am always interested in the mind of the killer, but this time, if I am honest, has been different. I think it is because Jodi herself is so far outside of what a sane mind can comprehend. The complete lack of shame, remorse, boundaries, and the level of violence of the murder is so far beyond anything I have ever seen. She has had access(through her minions) to social media, which allowed her behavior to be much more in your face than any other murderer. She blatantly lied about DV and child sexual abuse which people tend to be very passionate about. The goal obviously was to garner sympathy, but instead became had the opposite effect and fueled the hate. I want Jodi to feel something. It bothers me on a very primal level to watch Jodi's complete lack of real emotions. I have never seen someone who comes across as completely void of any sort of feelings other than HATE as JA does. She killed Travis Alexander 3 times that day, and then has spent every single day since continuing to kill him. Her hate for Travis, to this day, is the most important thing to her. She hates him so much, she wouldn't even feign remorse in an effort to save her own life. There are social norms which differ from society to society and then there are human norms and Jodi go against both in every way. I think the intense dislike of JA is happening on almost an instinctual level. She is the type of person I imagine a lot of people got that unexplainable goosebumps creepy feeling around.
 
:seeya:

Here's some recent Tweets regarding tomorrow:

Link: https://twitter.com/hardtruth4real/lists/jodi-arias-trial-live


Jeffrey Evan Gold &#8207;@jeffgoldesq · 3h3 hours ago

#JodiArias will finally be sentenced tomorrow. But will she get life with . or without ...the chance of release...
http://fb.me/38k0Pr4hf


Monica Lindstrom &#8207;@monicalindstrom · 2h2 hours ago

#LegallySpeaking: Decision day for Jodi Arias has arrived -
http://goo.gl/alerts/bIvb #GoogleAlerts


Troy Hayden &#8207;@troyhaydenfox10 · 1h1 hour ago

My thoughts: There is no doubt. #JodiArias will get life without possibility of release tomorrow.
Then she's gone.


Cathy &#8207;@courtchatter · 7m7 minutes ago

Join us for LIVE CHAT and watch #jodiarias SENTENCING LIVE here
http://www.courtchatter.com/#!jodi-arias-sentencing/cn8u …
 
Beccaboo said:
For me this case has caught my attention in ways no other case ever has. If I am following a case I am always interested in what the mind of the killer, but this time, if I am honest, has been different. I think it is because Jodi herself is so far outside of what a sane mind can comprehend. The complete lack of shame, remorse, boundaries, and the level of violence of the murder is so far beyond anything I have ever seen. She has had access(through her minions) to social media, which allowed her behavior to be much more in your face than any other murderer. She blatantly lied about DV and child sexual abuse which than people tend to be very passionate about. The goal obviously was to garner sympathy, but instead became had the opposite effect and fuel the hate. I want Jodi to feel something. It bothers me on a very primal level to watch Jodi's complete lack of real emotions. I have never seen someone who comes across has completely void of any sort of feelings other than HATE. She killed Travis Alexander 3 times that day, and then has spent every single day since continuing to kill him. Her hate for Travis, to this day, is the most important thing to her. She hates him so much, she wouldn't even feign remorse in an effort to save her own life. There are social norms which differ from society to society and then there are human norms and Jodi go against both in every way. I think the intense dislike of JA is happening on almost an instinctual level. She is the type of person I imagine a lot of people got that unexplainable goosebumps creepy feeling around.
Click to expand...

You perfectly describe my feelings every time I see/saw her social media campaign say #winning. Ugh, makes me want to scream, "The only thing you won was a box to live in!"
 
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