MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[time]

It hasn't been reported since. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that no one has died from the rough rides since then.

Exactly, and it has happened other places. I'm sure a lot of more minor injuries could not be proven as happening in the van... that's the point of it anyway.

 

[time]

We know about the earlier death and have discussed it here. It has not happened again in ten years. Why did FG die and none others if it is so widespread and common?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-hs-more-rough-rides-20150501-story.html

Two more people came forward Friday and said Baltimore police gave them "rough rides," purposefully tossing them around in the back of a transport van, causing them injuries.

The men, Jacob Master Jr. of Baltimore and Patrick Hoey of Seattle, were put in the back of a police van in June 2012 as the result of a noise complaint, according to their lawyers at the Norman Law Firm in Dagsboro, Del.
Freddie Gray not the first to come out of Baltimore police van with serious injuries

Neither man was strapped into the van, and during the ride they were "violently tossed around the interior of the police van" as an officer drove "maniacally" to a police station, according to a statement from the firm. "As a result, each man sustained injuries."

...In another case, Christine Abbott, 27, is suing city officers in federal court, alleging she got such a ride in 2012. Abbott was hosting a party at her Hampden home when two officers arrived to follow up on a noise complaint. According to her lawsuit in U.S. District Court, the officers began to argue with a guest for not putting out a cigarette while they spoke to him, and when Abbott tried to calm both sides, the officers threw her to the ground. According to the suit, officers cuffed Abbott's hands behind her back, threw her into a police van, left her unbuckled and "maniacally drove" her to the Northern District police station, "tossing [her] around the interior of the police van."

A former city police officer testified five years ago, in a case that resulted in a death, that rough rides were an "unsanctioned technique" in which police vans are driven to cause "injury or pain" to unbuckled, handcuffed detainees.

In Baltimore and other cities, police have used 'rough rides' as payback in the past

Geoffrey Alpert, a professor at the University of South Carolina and an expert in police practices, said he used to hear it called the “screen test,” for the sudden braking that sent a back-seat suspect's face into a metal barrier. He said the practice had proved hard to stamp out.

“It was a way to punish them without really putting your hands on them,” he said.

Indeed, the McKenna incident in Philadelphia came a decade after a 2001 investigation by the Philadelphia Inquirer documented injuries from police wagon rides to 20 people, two of whom were left paralyzed. The city paid $2.3 million in settlements but failed to discipline any of the officers, the paper found.

The practice has survived in part because it's so difficult to prove; drivers can always claim that they had to brake suddenly because a dog ran out in front of the car, or for some other reason.

 

[Ausgirl]

Oh, and than there's the witness who stated he heard Gray complaining about an officer's knee on him, hurting his neck, unfortunately prior to the video recorded portion of the arrest.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...-gray-baltimore-arrest-videowitness/26122671/

Which officer was kneeling closest to Gray's neck?

Why, that would be Lt. Brian Rice.

Edit:

Records from the sheriff’s office and court show Baltimore Police Officer Lt. Brian Rice, a central figure in the arrest of Freddie Gray, was hospitalized three years ago over mental health concerns. He also had his gun confiscated.

The report doesn’t indicate how long Officer Rice was hospitalized, but his guns were confiscated, according the Associated Press. The County Carroll Sheriff’s Office report quoted Rice as saying he “could not go on like this” and threatened to commit an act. The act itself was censored in the public version of report.

http://rt.com/usa/254761-baltimore-cop-hospitalized-mental-health/

 

[dandy]

VIDEO: Interesting interview on CNN with Page Croyder - former Deputy SA of Baltimore. As with her op-ed in the SUN Croyder is scathing in her criticism of Mosby.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fmr-depu...ty-mosbys-police-charges-incompetent-at-best/

she's on anderson cooper right now . . .crap - i missed the whole thing

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]Sources: Baltimore police investigation doesn't support some of prosecution's charges[/h]However, Batts had an inkling that Mosby was preparing for a surprise move, according to people familiar with the matter, which is why he turned over his department's findings a day ahead of the deadline he had set.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/polit...re-knife-marilyn-mosby-prosecution/index.html

 

[SStarr33]

[h=1]Sources: Baltimore police investigation doesn't support some of prosecution's charges[/h]However, Batts had an inkling that Mosby was preparing for a surprise move, according to people familiar with the matter, which is why he turned over his department's findings a day ahead of the deadline he had set.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/polit...re-knife-marilyn-mosby-prosecution/index.html

Wow and this is coming from CNN.

Crazy!!!!!

 

[Footwarrior]

We know about the earlier death and have discussed it here. It has not happened again in ten years. Why did FG die and none others if it is so widespread and common?

There is currently a lawsuit in Federal court over a rough ride incident in 2012. Hard to say it hasn't happened again.

 

[MissSunshine]

[h=1]Sources: Baltimore police investigation doesn't support some of prosecution's charges[/h]However, Batts had an inkling that Mosby was preparing for a surprise move, according to people familiar with the matter, which is why he turned over his department's findings a day ahead of the deadline he had set.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/polit...re-knife-marilyn-mosby-prosecution/index.html

Also from the link

Another issue could arise from the team Mosby relied on to lead her case: one of her top investigators, Avon Mackel, is a former high-ranking Baltimore police officer who was stripped of his command post in 2009 for failing to follow through on a robbery investigation that two of his officers mishandled and did not report. A Baltimore Sun report said police in the district were accused of classifying serious crimes as lesser in order to log lower crime rates.

In October 2009, four months after his demotion, Baltimore County police sent a SWAT team to Mackel's home, responding a drunken incident in which he was seen holding a gun, according to a police report of the incident obtained by CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/polit...re-knife-marilyn-mosby-prosecution/index.html

So using an officer who did bad things to expose officers who may have done bad things....interesting

 

[Ausgirl]

Interesting how Mackel was fired -- and Rice was not.

 

[time]

There is currently a lawsuit in Federal court over a rough ride incident in 2012. Hard to say it hasn't happened again.

And, other problems.

A 2006 class action lawsuit backed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) cited "a pattern and practice" of bogus arrests for minor, often vaguely defined offenses such as loitering, trespassing, impeding pedestrian traffic, disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, and failure to obey a police command. Of 76,497 people arrested by Baltimore police without warrants in 2005, the lawsuit noted, prosecutors declined to charge 25,293—nearly one out of three. According to the state's attorney, those cases were "legally insufficient."

...Under a settlement reached in 2010, the Baltimore Police Department (BPD) agreed to change performance evaluation policies that encouraged false arrests and introduce safeguards aimed at ensuring that cops have probable cause when they take people into custody. Two years later, the ACLU complained that the BPD was "failing to comply" with the agreement. It noted that "BPD officers did not or could not justify arrests for quality of life offenses in at least 35 percent of the cases examined" by an independent auditor.

http://reason.com/archives/2015/05/06/why-freddie-ran

 

[SStarr33]

Interesting how Mackel was fired -- and Rice was not.

I might have missed it, but I don't see where he was fired--just demoted.

Nonetheless, Mosby must think he is a stand up guy.

 

[MissSunshine]

Interesting how Mackel was fired -- and Rice was not.

Mackel was demoted for not followiing through on a robbery investigation not for what happened with the Swat Team.

 

[vanlutz]

There is currently a lawsuit in Federal court over a rough ride incident in 2012. Hard to say it hasn't happened again.

There's something to remember with MANY lawsuits. They're settled for convenience sake. It's been mentioned quite a few times that over the years Baltimore settled for close to six million in lawsuits. That sounds outrageously high, but it's not. Companies will settle regardless of right or wrong, it's just easier.

Hopefully this will change once body cameras become the norm.

I found it astounding how shocked the media were when they heard about the settlements. Anyone who has insurance or dealt with lawyers knows this is common policy.

 

[SStarr33]

There's something to remember with MANY lawsuits. They're settled for convenience sake. It's been mentioned quite a few times that over the years Baltimore settled for close to six million in lawsuits. That sounds outrageously high, but it's not. Companies will settle regardless of right or wrong, it's just easier.

Hopefully this will change once body cameras become the norm.

I found it astounding how shocked the media were when they heard about the settlements. Anyone who has insurance or dealt with lawyers knows this is common policy.

I posted a link that showed Chicago has paid 500 million.

 

[vanlutz]

I posted a link that showed Chicago has paid 500 million.

Incredible isn't it?

 

[MissSunshine]

And, other problems.



http://reason.com/archives/2015/05/06/why-freddie-ran

Martin O'Malley was the mayor then and he had some zero-tolerance policing strategy going on. Arrest everybody, pretty much. Here is a quote from an article talking about it.

Back in those heady days, O'Malley was all about bringing new urgency to the crime fight, and his zeal was appreciated. He considered his election a mandate to have the police make lots and lots of arrests, even for minor "quality-of-life" crimes, under a zero-tolerance strategy.

There were thousands of arrests — 100,000 a year in a city of about 635,000 residents. In August 2005, police set a record with street corner sweeps. I called it ArrestFest. They brought 8,964 cases — a third of which were later dropped by Jessamy's prosecutors

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20..._property-crime-violent-crime-martin-o-malley

 

[Ausgirl]

Mackel was demoted for not followiing through on a robbery investigation not for what happened with the Swat Team.

Sorry - "demoted" not "fired". Which begs the question, really, of 'why wasn't he fired'?

I was aware of why Mackel was disciplined. My point was, he was disciplined for that behaviour, which did not involve pulling a gun on a woman or kids, breaking and entering a private home to threaten people, intimidating someone using police dept fax machines, and whatever else is on the laundry list of REALLY GOOD REASONS Rice should have been fired.

And for some reason, was not.

And I strongly suspect Freddy Gray died, as a result.

 

[ShadyLady]

Sorry - "demoted" not "fired". Which begs the question, really, of 'why wasn't he fired'?

I was aware of why Mackel was disciplined. My point was, he was disciplined for that behaviour, which did not involve pulling a gun on a woman or kids, breaking and entering a private home to threaten people, intimidating someone using police dept fax machines, and whatever else is on the laundry list of REALLY GOOD REASONS Rice should have been fired.

And for some reason, was not.

And I strongly suspect Freddy Gray died, as a result.

And since Mackel was not fired...he obviously owes "someone" bigtime. Would not trust his judgement at all. He is compromised. He will do what they tell him to do, imo

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

There's something to remember with MANY lawsuits. They're settled for convenience sake. It's been mentioned quite a few times that over the years Baltimore settled for close to six million in lawsuits. That sounds outrageously high, but it's not. Companies will settle regardless of right or wrong, it's just easier.

Hopefully this will change once body cameras become the norm.

I found it astounding how shocked the media were when they heard about the settlements. Anyone who has insurance or dealt with lawyers knows this is common policy.

Before my current career I worked for a law firm that represented defendants in (mostly) personal injury lawsuits. We were usually hired by insurance companies to represent their insurers. In the 11 years I worked at the firm we settled all but one lawsuit regardless of fault or liability--it was simply cheaper than going to trial. It is VERY expensive to take a case to trial.

O/T: The insurance company took a stand on principle in the case we did not settle as it was beyond ridiculous--the plaintiff (who was racing another car down a city street) received minor injuries and proceeded to sue an elderly man (who spent two months in a hospital recovering from his injuries) for "failing to get out of the way"! I think their final offer was $250 and even it was turned down.

 

[Boytwnmom]

in this case. The charges themselves contain no allegations of such. The other passenger said there was no rough ride and the van has a GPS which would shoe if there had been a rough ride which would then have certainly made it's way into the prosecutors charging document and certainly into her "speech".

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-hs-more-rough-rides-20150501-story.html



In Baltimore and other cities, police have used 'rough rides' as payback in the past