MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[loveamystery]

IMO, 61% (2,931) were classified as homicides by law enforcement personnel, is a pretty breathtaking percentage no?

Homicide is "death by another" as defined in a few posts above. These stats don't supply any of the details, so we're not sure what happened. By the way, they apply to the period between 2003 and 2009.

 

[KEVINinTO]

As KZ posted (as have others) homicide does not mean murder.

It really is a huge distinction, and one that IMO Mosby purposely failed to clarify in her press conference.

I wonder if she fully appreciates the distinction? She charged the van driver with 2nd degree murder AND involuntary manslaughter two very different things. All a defense attorney needs to do is say to a jury "the SA can't make up her mind as to whether the death was accidental (involuntary manslaughter) or intentional (2nd degree murder) How can she expect you to decide beyond a reasonable doubt if the defendant is guilty".

 

[CARIIS]

The Baltimore police supervisor suspended over the death of Freddie Gray was accused of threatening to kill a man as part of an alleged “pattern of intimidation and violence” that led to a temporary restraining order.


Lieutenant Brian Rice was ordered to stay away from the man after a series of alleged confrontations, including one armed standoff that led to a 911 call and officers from two police departments spending 90 minutes defusing the situation, according to court filings.

The man seeking protection from Rice in 2013 alleged to the court that Rice had said during an apparently alcohol-fuelled confrontation at the man’s house at 2am one morning in June 2012 that he “planned to kill” the man.

“I witnessed Brian Rice remove a black semi-automatic handgun from the trunk of his vehicle,” the man wrote in his petition for protection. As Rice screamed demands for the man to come out of his house, the man called 911 and officers from Carroll County sheriff’s department and Westminster police department arrived, he wrote.


“They remained on scene for approximately one and a half hours,” said the man. “Brian Rice was allowed to leave on foot.” A sheriff’s department spokesman said on Wednesday he could find no record of the call-out. “We were probably there as backup,” he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ie-gray-had-pattern-of-violence-court-filings

 

[Solitaryone]

I notice that my post with a link to the official Baltimore Police YouTube account has been removed for reasons I cannot understand.

Anyway I have this theory (just my opinion) of what might have happened based on this new information (CCTV video show FG entering a building).

We now know that FG entered an apartment building for some unknown reason before doubling back in the direction of the officers.

The man who took the video (an acquaintance of FG) said in an interview that he was in bed when "someone" came into his apartment to tell him that his friend was being tased. Could this "someone" be Freddie? We can see in other CCTV of the arrest this man walking alongside the officers holding up his phone to record the action. This is pure speculation on my part but I wonder if FG enlisted his friend to video record the arrest so that he could use it for a future lawsuit? Was the screaming and the limp legs just theatrics? The first question to be asked is does his friend live in the building that we see FG entering? (he must live very nearby based on his account of events).

I think you could be right. I think all the screaming and going limp was theatrics. And that would explain why FG ran back out toward the cops, and how his friend was able to take the video. I also wonder if FG dropped a stash of drugs off somewhere inside that building. On FOX the cop whose identity was hidden said FG was well known to the LE and that he always made a scene when arrested, and that he would settle down once he was taken to the police station. He also said FG had helped LE solve a lot of violent crimes. IF this is what happened, FG not only caused his own death, he ruined the lives of these six police officers, and so much more.

 

[Curious Guy]

The Baltimore police supervisor suspended over the death of Freddie Gray was accused of threatening to kill a man as part of an alleged “pattern of intimidation and violence” that led to a temporary restraining order.


Lieutenant Brian Rice was ordered to stay away from the man after a series of alleged confrontations, including one armed standoff that led to a 911 call and officers from two police departments spending 90 minutes defusing the situation, according to court filings.

The man seeking protection from Rice in 2013 alleged to the court that Rice had said during an apparently alcohol-fuelled confrontation at the man’s house at 2am one morning in June 2012 that he “planned to kill” the man.

“I witnessed Brian Rice remove a black semi-automatic handgun from the trunk of his vehicle,” the man wrote in his petition for protection. As Rice screamed demands for the man to come out of his house, the man called 911 and officers from Carroll County sheriff’s department and Westminster police department arrived, he wrote.


“They remained on scene for approximately one and a half hours,” said the man. “Brian Rice was allowed to leave on foot.” A sheriff’s department spokesman said on Wednesday he could find no record of the call-out. “We were probably there as backup,” he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ie-gray-had-pattern-of-violence-court-filings

Do we really want to go there? Delving into all of the players in this case prior bad acts?

 

[CARIIS]

Do we really want to go there? Delving into all of the players in this case prior bad acts?

Of course we do - that is what we do -- get as much of any story as poss. If it were a speeding ticket maybe irrelevant!

Obciously, something violent had to happen in order for lrynx and spinal cords to be snapped --- I think an individual, with a badge, that requires two police departments ,90 minutes, a dash of a tazer , and gun removal in terms of propensentiy to behave in questionable, wildly aggressive and violent beahaviors can be both illuminating and certainly relevant, IMO

it gets worse:

threatened to kill himself and the husband of his ex-girlfriend, during incidents that led to him being disciplined and twice having his guns confiscated.

given an administrative suspension after being hospitalised for a mental health evaluation when he warned he was preparing to shoot himself in April 2012.

given an administrative suspension after being hospitalised for a mental health evaluation when he warned he was preparing to shoot himself in April 2012.

his wife at the time also took out a restraing to protect his biolocial child from harm

AUthroties were so concerned that the hand off during visitation had to occur at the police sration .

Stalking,trespassing, went on for 10 months

He then got in his car , revved it up loud and inched forward to her as she is in her driveway

sending sexually charged texts

he made a family member shoot at a picture of antoher family member

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2072504-lt-brian-rice-peace-order-complaint.html

 

[Curious Guy]

Of course we do - that is what we do -- get as much of any story as poss. If it were a speeding ticket maybe irrelevant!

Obciously, something violent had to happen in order for lrynx and spinal cords to be snapped --- I think an individual, with a badge, that requires two police departments ,90 minutes, a dash of a tazer , and gun removal in terms of propensentiy to behave in questionable, wildly aggressive and violent beahaviors can be both illuminating and certainly relevant, IMO

Have at it. I don't necessarily disagree but that's a slippery slope that might not end well for the SA.

 

[teedie2]

FOX 5 DC ‏@fox5newsdc 5m5 minutes ago
#BREAKING: Baltimore officer charged in #FreddieGray death files motion contending arrest was legal because of knife type (via AP)

I am hugely concerned about the chain of custody with regard to this knife. Will the public ever see definitive pictures of it? Hopefully, it won't be "lost" somehow before it is examined by both sides.

 

[CARIIS]

No. There's really no facts available yet.

No. There's really no facts available yet. that have been released publicly!

 

[CARIIS]

I notice that my post with a link to the official Baltimore Police YouTube account has been removed for reasons I cannot understand.

Anyway I have this theory (just my opinion) of what might have happened based on this new information (CCTV video show FG entering a building).

We now know that FG entered an apartment building for some unknown reason before doubling back in the direction of the officers.

The man who took the video (an acquaintance of FG) said in an interview that he was in bed when "someone" came into his apartment to tell him that his friend was being tased. Could this "someone" be Freddie? We can see in other CCTV of the arrest this man walking alongside the officers holding up his phone to record the action. This is pure speculation on my part but I wonder if FG enlisted his friend to video record the arrest so that he could use it for a future lawsuit? Was the screaming and the limp legs just theatrics? The first question to be asked is does his friend live in the building that we see FG entering? (he must live very nearby based on his account of events).

The only real thing we know is a 25 year who had no problem running or riding a bike is now dead

 

[KEVINinTO]

The only real thing we know is a 25 year who had no problem running or riding a bike is now dead

We know allot more than that and we are learning new information almost hourly. Unless the CCTV surveillance video's uploaded by the Baltimore Police to their website have been doctored we now know FG ran into an apartment building before doubling back where he encountered the police. We did not know this before today and this crucial fact was left out of the SA's charging document!

 

[vanlutz]

We have no independent, authentic verification of this. None at all. Just rumor talk and opinion.

True. But, (and I could be wrong) I think the results were leaked. Every channel has reported the same thing, and even Mosby mentioned that the injury happened in the van. So, it's 85% probable that it's true. Everything in this thread and discussion is speculation.

There are things that when thought about logically make sense, this is one of them. But, that still doesn't mean it's true.

 

[vanlutz]

A serious question.

Only the driver has been charged with a form of murder. So, even Mosby doesn't believe that Gray was beaten by any cops.

How you think his spine was snapped?

My personal belief on complete speculation and no facts is, the heroin he ingested while running from the cops made him flip out and he violently beat his head on the metal and cracked his spine on the nut.

 

[katydid23]

True. But, (and I could be wrong) I think the results were leaked. Every channel has reported the same thing, and even Mosby mentioned that the injury happened in the van. So, it's 85% probable that it's true. Everything in this thread and discussion is speculation.

There are things that when thought about logically make sense, this is one of them. But, that still doesn't mean it's true.

But I am not sure the part about the crushed larnyx is a fact. JMO

 

[KEVINinTO]

But I am not sure the part about the crushed larnyx is a fact. JMO

And if the crushed larynx is factual this injury could have been caused by paramedic's or trauma doctors trying to intubate FG. Without seeing the autopsy report it is hard to know when his injuries occurred. Was there external bruising around the neck? If not we can surmise that the injury was caused internally during intubation. In fact according to this Wikipedia entry - the spinal fractures could have been caused by intubation also!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracheal_intubation#Complications

More serious complications include laryngospasm, perforation of the trachea or esophagus, pulmonary aspiration of gastric contents or other foreign bodies, fracture or dislocation of the cervical spine

I would be interested in hearing what the medical professionals on this site think about this possibility.

 

[KEVINinTO]

Former Baltimore Deputy SA - Page Croyder interviewed by CNN's Chris Cuomo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccgDdc9k-o8&feature=youtu.be

Cuomo is hostile to Croyder throughout the interview. CNN seems invested in propping up Mosby. When asked about Croyders comment that if she was a Baltimore officer she would be looking for another job - Croyder explained the chilling effect of charging officers who - in good faith - believed they had probable grounds to arrest FG over a spring-operated knife with a crime. Cuomo - who has a law degree - couldn't grasp the significance of this and he took a parting shot in the final moments (like a coward) calling Croyders comments "inflammatory".

 

[Ausgirl]

Do we really want to go there? Delving into all of the players in this case prior bad acts?

IMO it would be remiss of us NOT to go there. This man, who should by all rights be in prison himself for his actions, and probably would be if he wasn't protected by other cops, was the man who was kneeling closest to Gray's neck while he was on the ground.

MULTIPLE times, this man has lost the plot, while armed and intoxicated, he's even been carted off to a psych hospital for it. He clearly has major anger issues and it's highly disturbing, IMO, that he's not only still on the job, but has command of other officers to boot.

And this guy just *happens* to be an arresting officer in this case. Where a young man is dragged into a paddy wagon, screaming and unable to stand without assistance, subsequently has died, and the BPD has clearly been trying to cover its own *advertiser censored* from day 1, at times failing quite miserably.

If this man was protected, all through those multiple incidents (and he was, obviously), who's to say he's not being protected now? How and why have documents been leaked, which all happen to undermine the case against these officers? So far we've heard Freddy was suicidal, that he died of a lack of seatbelt... then there was the "friend" of the officers saying Grey was "acting" because he was an informant -- what next?! Edit: Oh here we go -- now it's been "leaked" that Gray tested positive for drugs. Even if this is true it earns a resounding SO WHAT from me. Drugs didn't sever his spinal cord, did they. What are all these insiders hoping to achieve, by "leaking" all these "facts" (if they are indeed facts.. )? I think it's not hard to see all this is as blatant attempts to make Freddy the villain of the piece.

Utter. Bulldust. IMO.

Maybe if the BPD is forced to admit there's a chance Gray was injured during the arrest -- and dammit, there really is a chance of that, check out info on spinal trauma and how being moved can cause it to become fatal of a sudden --- they'd have to go into the reasons why Lt. Rice is still an employee of the department. let alone in a position of command.

It's not as if there is NOT an atmosphere in which brutality has flourished, in that city.

 

[dandy]

Former Baltimore Deputy SA - Page Croyder interviewed by CNN's Chris Cuomo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccgDdc9k-o8&feature=youtu.be

Cuomo is hostile to Croyder throughout the interview. CNN seems invested in propping up Mosby. When asked about Croyders comment that if she was a Baltimore officer she would be looking for another job - Croyder explained the chilling effect of charging officers who - in good faith - believed they had probable grounds to arrest FG over a spring-operated knife with a crime. Cuomo - who has a law degree - couldn't grasp the significance of this and he took a parting shot in the final moments (like a coward) calling Croyders comments "inflammatory".

thanks - caught last nite's a/cooper's rerun. i wonder which cable network will hire her as a consultant - they've got my viewing audience as she offers the most concise/non-crap evaluation.

 

[dandy]

BBM

One of the anonymous friends that were interviewed last week on FOX stated that the van did not have GPS, and that the camera had been broken for quite some time. He didn't specify whether or not the van had GPS and it was broken, or if it never had it at all.

No link, so take it for what it's worth. Me, I'm apt to believe it otherwise I think we would have heard about it by now, cause despite SA Mosby's admonition about leaks there have been quite a few. Shocker!

found the msm link for you . . . they = task force . . . "They discovered that the van's video camera was broken
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...gray-investigation-20150502-story.html#page=1

 

[SStarr33]

K_Z or anyone medical, I have a question. If FG had a fx larynx, is there any way possible there would be no external sign like bruising?