AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #1

[SCHMAE]

What it tells me is that a cloistered, holding tightly to the reins kind of life, is not a good thing. I'm not saying we should all become free-range parents; I think balance is the key. Sometimes, in trying to protect your kids, you do more harm than good.

I'll give you an example from my extended AOG family. ( dear God, please don't let any of them read this thread ) I have a family member with roughly half as many kids as the Duggars have, which is still a LOT ! They lived very tightly sheltered. They are growing into adults now. One of the sisters relayed this story to me , as an adult. Her recently adult age brother went out with a girl and wanted to kiss her. The girl said it was not a good idea because she had herpes and she wanted to be honest with him. He came home to his sister and said " what is herpes'' ? An adult American male with no idea what herpes is ! This did not happen in the 1970s. This happened last year. So what good have the parents done by protecting him from even cursory knowledge about diseases? All he was ever taught was do not have sex until you're married , PERIOD!

 

[MsMarple]

Some years back (around 2007) a website ran a survey called "The Modesty Survey." I can't link to it because the authors eventually pulled it but you can still find remnants of it here and there online. 1600 boys responded. The upshot of the results was, well, pretty much anything girls wore or however they behaved turned out to cause boys to "stumble," and have "impure" thoughts. Stumble is what we might call a trigger, or what the Duggars refer to as "defrauding." The free ginger site has a discussion about it.

I was able to view it before the link went dead and IMO it reflected the skewed education the respondents were receiving at home regarding girls and sex. Here's an example of some of the milder answers:

27% of respondents find a girl putting on lip gloss in front of them to be a stumbling block.
63.6% of respondents find a girl leaning over and showing her lower back to be a stumbling block.
74.9% of respondents reported that the way a girl walks can be a stumbling block.
93.8% of respondents reported that a modestly dressed girl can still be a stumbling block because of her attitude and behavior.

Taken from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/06/worthwhile-reads-the-modesty-survey.html

All I can say is...

Nike! Nike!:scared:

 

[blue22]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-incest-joke-siblings-family-s-TLC-show.html

 

[LaborDayRN]

I wanted to touch on this topic from a few pages back, re: the girls and their husbands..

They are currently the most popular part of the show - their weddings, babies, lives. All that stuff is the highest rated part of the program.

1. How bad do you think it bothers the Christian Patriarchal mindset that people couldn't care less about the boys and care way more about the girls' lives? Ha!

2. Although I am not a fan of the lifestyle or the parents, and have done a lot of research over the years on their cult, I would like to see a show continue featuring the older girls, for a few reasons:

- The men they've married (those who have married) ARE still conservative Christians, but come from less restrictive families than the Duggars. I believe their mothers even wear pants.

-The girls and their families will benefit from the income, including being able to continue financial independence from the parents. Seewald can support his family, but the other one currently works for JimBob. This could help them break free of that.

-Jana, the oldest daughter who is not married has expressed her intent to leave home and attend college. Real college! This is NOT the norm and without her own income, subject to support from JimBob and Michelle.

-It would, admittedly, be such delicious schadenfreude to see Josh lose it all while his sisters prosper.

BBM: Maybe TLC could give Jana her own show, so she could afford to go to college on her own.

 

[Saltwithsavor]

J

I'll give you an example from my extended AOG family. ( dear God, please don't let any of them read this thread ) I have a family member with roughly half as many kids as the Duggars have, which is still a LOT ! They lived very tightly sheltered. They are growing into adults now. One of the sisters relayed this story to me , as an adult. Her recently adult age brother went out with a girl and wanted to kiss her. The girl said it was not a good idea because she had herpes and she wanted to be honest with him. He came home to his sister and said " what is herpes'' ? An adult American male with no idea what herpes is ! This did not happen in the 1970s. This happened last year. So what good have the parents done by protecting him from even cursory knowledge about diseases? All he was ever taught was do not have sex until you're married , PERIOD!

I'm AOG. Possibly could be your family. �� I have to say I don't agree with all things AOG says..I believe as parents we have a responsibility to our kids not to only "preach" doctrine.. But also teach and educate. Hopefully I did this for my kids..doctrine rarely keeps up with society and the changes that happen daily..all this said..parents have to take the lead here it is not a church, doctrine, or ministers job to fix kids. Communication is key..sadly the young man in your family just got rules with out any discussion why these beliefs were held...

 

[Saltwithsavor]

Isn't it amazing how SO many of the ministries the Duggars have supported or been part of...include men who have to step down because of sexual sins?

Sin is only glaring in places where we hope we wouldn't see it..sin has no boundaries. IMO

 

[Donjeta]

Some years back (around 2007) a website ran a survey called "The Modesty Survey." I can't link to it because the authors eventually pulled it but you can still find remnants of it here and there online. 1600 boys responded. The upshot of the results was, well, pretty much anything girls wore or however they behaved turned out to cause boys to "stumble," and have "impure" thoughts. Stumble is what we might call a trigger, or what the Duggars refer to as "defrauding." The free ginger site has a discussion about it.

I was able to view it before the link went dead and IMO it reflected the skewed education the respondents were receiving at home regarding girls and sex. Here's an example of some of the milder answers:

27% of respondents find a girl putting on lip gloss in front of them to be a stumbling block.
63.6% of respondents find a girl leaning over and showing her lower back to be a stumbling block.
74.9% of respondents reported that the way a girl walks can be a stumbling block.
93.8% of respondents reported that a modestly dressed girl can still be a stumbling block because of her attitude and behavior.

Taken from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/06/worthwhile-reads-the-modesty-survey.html

All I can say is...

Nike! Nike!:scared:

Well OK clearly if even modestly dressed girls moving about can get them stumble then modest dress is not the answer, the boys simply have to be sent on a desert island where they see nobody.

 

[SCHMAE]

J

I'm AOG. Possibly could be your family. �� I have to say I don't agree with all things AOG says..I believe as parents we have a responsibility to our kids not to only "preach" doctrine.. But also teach and educate. Hopefully I did this for my kids..doctrine rarely keeps up with society and the changes that happen daily..all this said..parents have to take the lead here it is not a church, doctrine, or ministers job to fix kids. Communication is key..sadly the young man in your family just got rules with out any discussion why these beliefs were held...

I'm just grateful to the girl with herpes for telling him. But that kind of thing could go on over and over . Yes, you can teach morality and modesty but you cannot block out the ' real world' because sooner or later your kids will face it and they need to be armed for what they'll encounter.

 

[kimi_SFC]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-incest-joke-siblings-family-s-TLC-show.html

From your link:


The Duggar child molestation scandal is just the latest in a long line of incidents involving inappropriate behavior by a TLC star with a minor.

-Here Comes Honey Boo Boo: The show was cancelled last year after photos emerged of star June Shannon, better known as Mama June, with her ex Mark McDaniel. McDaniel had just been released from jail at the time after serving time for molesting an 8-year-old girl. That girl was one of Shannon's daughters.

-Sons of Guns: Gunsmith and former Marine Will Hayden was charged with raping a 12-year-old girl in 2014, forcing TLC to quickly cancel the reality show. That girl was revealed to be his own daughter, and shortly after his other daughter came forward she too had been raped by Hayden when she was 12-years-old. He is currently awaiting trial.

-Cheer Perfection: Another reality the network had to cancel following a scandal, this time involving mother Andrea Clevenger who received two 10 year prison sentences when she was found guilty of having multiple sexual encounters with a boy in 2013 who was just 13.

-Cake Boss: Remigio Gonzalez, who was married to the sister of the show's title character Buddy Valastro, received nine years in prison in 2012 after he sexually assaulted a 13-year-old girl. While he did appear on that show, by the time these charges were brought against him he was no longer a character on the program.

:scared:

:gaah:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LaborDayRN]

BBM: Maybe TLC could give Jana her own show, so she could afford to go to college on her own.

Quoting myself to add: How is it that the ADULT children who are regulars on a TLC show aren't receiving a paycheck of their own?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Quoting myself to add: How is it that the ADULT children who are regulars on a TLC show aren't receiving a paycheck of their own?

Probably because as head of the family, Jim Bob gets the $ and decides how it is will be parceled out.

Just speculating.

 

[blue22]

From your link:


The Duggar child molestation scandal is just the latest in a long line of incidents involving inappropriate behavior by a TLC star with a minor.

-Here Comes Honey Boo Boo: The show was cancelled last year after photos emerged of star June Shannon, better known as Mama June, with her ex Mark McDaniel. McDaniel had just been released from jail at the time after serving time for molesting an 8-year-old girl. That girl was one of Shannon's daughters.

-Sons of Guns: Gunsmith and former Marine Will Hayden was charged with raping a 12-year-old girl in 2014, forcing TLC to quickly cancel the reality show. That girl was revealed to be his own daughter, and shortly after his other daughter came forward she too had been raped by Hayden when she was 12-years-old. He is currently awaiting trial.

-Cheer Perfection: Another reality the network had to cancel following a scandal, this time involving mother Andrea Clevenger who received two 10 year prison sentences when she was found guilty of having multiple sexual encounters with a boy in 2013 who was just 13.

-Cake Boss: Remigio Gonzalez, who was married to the sister of the show's title character Buddy Valastro, received nine years in prison in 2012 after he sexually assaulted a 13-year-old girl. While he did appear on that show, by the time these charges were brought against him he was no longer a character on the program.

:scared:

:gaah:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They sure know how to pick them.

The thing that stood out to me in the article, was the casualness of an incest joke. Here's what I think...they can't see the sad, sick irony of. It was never treated as an assault, violation...incest. It was a mistake by a boy who was too tempted. It was a "teenage mistake." Too much temptation. I would absolutely shocked if they ever viewed it as sexual assault and incest. Those poor girls.

 

[Zuri]

Does anyone know why Josh Duggar filed a lawsuit against the Arkansas Department of Human Services and why it was sealed? Was this to prevent the records of the molestation from being disclosed? IIRC, it was filed in 2007 and he would have been 19?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Good article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...vangelicals-view-the-duggars-its-complicated/

 

[kdgdid]

I was wondering the same thing when I saw the article?

Does anyone know why Josh Duggar filed a lawsuit against the Arkansas Department of Human Services and why it was sealed? Was this to prevent the records of the molestation from being disclosed? IIRC, it was filed in 2007 and he would have been 19?

 

[RR0004]

I have to thank the posters on this thread. I feel like I've lived a sheltered life here on the East Coast. I knew of the Duggars...even watched some of their shows. Honestly, I didn't know much about their religion...I had no idea that is was seen as "cult-like". Yes, I knew they dressed modestly, but to an Easterner it appeared to be just bad fashion sense. lol I wondered when Mom would stop having babies, and prayed they'd see it as a sign when Josie was born premature. I truly believed that they just loved children and that was their motivation to having as many as they did (though I did wonder how they ever found the time to have sex with so many kids around ) I didn't realize the babies were "assigned" a sibling to raise them. I didn't know their personal views of the world at all...I saw them as old-fashioned and perhaps different, but thought: each his own. Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate this education. Thanks.

 

[blue22]

I have to thank the posters on this thread. I feel like I've lived a sheltered life here on the East Coast. I knew of the Duggars...even watched some of their shows. Honestly, I didn't know much about their religion...I had no idea that is was seen as "cult-like". Yes, I knew they dressed modestly, but to an Easterner it appeared to be just bad fashion sense. lol I wondered when Mom would stop having babies, and prayed they'd see it as a sign when Josie was born premature. I truly believed that they just loved children and that was their motivation to having as many as they did (though I did wonder how they ever found the time to have sex with so many kids around ) I didn't realize the babies were "assigned" a sibling to raise them. I didn't know their personal views of the world at all...I saw them as old-fashioned and perhaps different, but thought: each his own. Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate this education. Thanks.

Actually (and I promise I'm not being nit-picky...lol) quiverfull is a movement, not a religion. The Duggars say that are Christian. Most quiverfulls are extremely conservative, fundamentalist, and usually protestant. I'm not sure how many people are active in the quiverfull movement, but I don't think it's a large number.

Eta: I quickly checked wikipedia and this is what was said about the numbers of participants, "Currently, several thousand Christians worldwide identify with this movement,[5] although entire Christian sects hold many beliefs correlative to those who self-identify as Quiverfull adherents."

 

[Boytwnmom]

I think. From what I've read (I have never watched the show-but have now watched a few snippets as part of the reporting on this) it's almost like she's addicted to having children. This is where she gets her identity. And it's been very affirming for her I think. She's an icon for the Quiverfull movement and has received awards, like from the disgraced Doug Phillips who was head of Vision Forum before his sexual assaults of their nanny came out.http://www.christianpost.com/news/duggar-familys-close-relationship-with-vision-forum-founder-doug-phillips-and-wife-highlighted-after-scandal-108697/

As with many of these extremist families, the parents did not suffer the same restrictive childhood. Michelle was a CHEERLEADER who now laments how she defrauded men with her outfits. And dancing, it's real bad too! http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Celebrities/2009/10/Michelle-and-Jim-Bob-Duggar.aspx?p=9

...there's just certain cautions you've got to be careful about because if you're gonna cause someone else to stumble by your actions and your behavior, it's something that you really want to be careful not to defraud someone and stir up desires that really cannot be righteously fulfilled.
Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainm...d-Jim-Bob-Duggar.aspx?p=9#Qzs6riZQpVlypG07.99

There's some evidence Michelle was troubled in some way as teen-she had admitted to having suffered from bullemia. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/03/10/michelle-duggar-talks-about-her-struggle-with-eating-disorder/

And she met Jim Bob who was more religious and then they married and after a miscarriage, decided God punished them for using birth control. And then they steadily went further off the rails until they became completely home centered and modesty and purity obsessed. Their family was stuck at home for everything, school, church, friendships which were only between siblings. A totally different childhood than either of the parents had. That's what gets me the most about these people. It's fine to become an extremist as an adult if that's what YOU want. But the children have no choices at all about anything. And they even forced to appear happy at all times. I think their whole existence is abusive and cultish. http://hedua.com/blog/they-smile-but-do-they-laugh/

One key idea teaches the importance of a joyful countenance and a light in your eyes. This is a measure of how mighty you are in spirit. Not only that, it is also an indicator of your respect for authority. Bill Gothard explains in the Basic Seminar session on How To Relate to Four Authorities that if you look unhappy, you are publicly shaming your authority. In parenting, that means that if the kid looks unhappy, it is a personal offense against the parents. He also teaches that unhappiness is the result of ungratefulness, and that anger comes from not yielding our rights to God. This boils down to the idea that if you are not cheerful, you are not pleasing God.

It was also clear she really had little meaningful interaction with the children after they were babies. She is the babies buddy until they are weaned and then they get handed off to an older sibling buddy (which only seem to be the girls of course-I could be wrong) while MD works on the next blessing. Apparently the buddies do everything for their charges, dress, feed, school, music lessons etc, this wasn't just some vague responsibility like when they're traveling. This was an actual job-to take care of a child, to do that which parents would normally do.

I do think there is probably something that needs to be diagnosed about MD. Even after the miscarriage and the preemie birth she had she is still trying to have more kids. Why aren't those events "signs from God" that they need to STOP? Why do they only ever hear messages from God that confirm what they what to do? It's just amazing that their God thinks exactly like they do....

The thought of all the money the family makes, I would keep a smile going through the entire taping of the show, while secretly wanting to run away and hide forever. I honestly don't understand the purpose of that many kids, how your body does all that, surely along the way, with one of the kids, she suffered from postpartum depression? Was she forced to have all those kids, or did she do that voluntarily?

 

[bexlex]

BBM: Maybe TLC could give Jana her own show, so she could afford to go to college on her own.

if it was just her...I'd watch that!

 

[gitana1]

This is all gonna get interesting in the next few months


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

I really hope this is as interesting as it gets.

I wanted to touch on this topic from a few pages back, re: the girls and their husbands..

They are currently the most popular part of the show - their weddings, babies, lives. All that stuff is the highest rated part of the program.

1. How bad do you think it bothers the Christian Patriarchal mindset that people couldn't care less about the boys and care way more about the girls' lives? Ha!

2. Although I am not a fan of the lifestyle or the parents, and have done a lot of research over the years on their cult, I would like to see a show continue featuring the older girls, for a few reasons:

- The men they've married (those who have married) ARE still conservative Christians, but come from less restrictive families than the Duggars. I believe their mothers even wear pants.

-The girls and their families will benefit from the income, including being able to continue financial independence from the parents. Seewald can support his family, but the other one currently works for JimBob. This could help them break free of that.

-Jana, the oldest daughter who is not married has expressed her intent to leave home and attend college. Real college! This is NOT the norm and without her own income, subject to support from JimBob and Michelle.

-It would, admittedly, be such delicious schadenfreude to see Josh lose it all while his sisters prosper.

Jana has not expressed her desire to go away to college or lead the home. That is pure tabloid nonsense. The Duggar clan are part of the stay at home daughter movement. The most girls can do is study online. They are to live with their fathers until given away to a husband. If that never happens, and father eventually dies, they are to live with the next close male relation who becomes their headship and their authority.

Something I've been wondering... Men and boys in the Gothardland are like leaves on the wind, slaves to their visual perceptions, apt to fall apart at the sight of an indecent female ankle, and struggling to resist their compulsion to rape babies and toddlers every time they have to change a diaper....

So how on earth do they arrive at the conclusion that these poor creatures with no self control whatsoever should be in charge... how do they reconcile making these animals the heads of families, preferably with lots of little kids?

I'd think it'd make more sense to lock them up and tell them for pete's sake don't ever have kids.

Great question. I looked up the Seewald family site per Oh_Gal and the blog post regarding this by Mr. Seewald (which is very well written), indicates another part of the puzzle- these people believe strongly that children are born with original sin- as filthy rags - and the "training" at home is what changes that eventually. They have Calvinistic leanings to their belief system.

And since they are part of the Christian patriarchy, only men apparently develop into the family headship and authority. Women, who are also born sinners, do not develop that way, no matter how much training they are given.

Quoting myself to add: How is it that the ADULT children who are regulars on a TLC show aren't receiving a paycheck of their own?

They do. There is zero evidence that the adult children do not receive direct pay from TLC. In fact, legally, they must enter into separate contracts with each child when they reach majority.

Actually (and I promise I'm not being nit-picky...lol) quiverfull is a movement, not a religion. The Duggars say that are Christian. Most quiverfulls are extremely conservative, fundamentalist, and usually protestant. I'm not sure how many people are active in the quiverfull movement, but I don't think it's a large number.

Eta: I quickly checked wikipedia and this is what was said about the numbers of participants, "Currently, several thousand Christians worldwide identify with this movement,[5] although entire Christian sects hold many beliefs correlative to those who self-identify as Quiverfull adherents."

Yes. Quiverfull is one of the principles they adhere to, although they deny it. They use all the terminology of the movement, they have promoted leaders and books about the movement at different times, and they practice it, but they refuse to admit it because it is ultimately about filling Christian headship's quivers with arrows to combat the heathen multitudes taking over our planet and to eventually wage war against them, and it has quite racist overtones. And that's not good for politics or TLC advertiser support.
http://www.newsweek.com/inside-duggar-familys-conservative-ideology-76547
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolong...sited-are-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-quiverfull/
http://globalcomment.com/quiverfull-an-interview-with-kathryn-joyce/#

They also adhere to the stay at home daughter movement and as followers or ATI/Gothard, a leading IFB with his own ideology and biblical interpretation, they are thought to be members of what in academia (you know, that oh so Christian hating institution), is known as a "New Religious Movement", which many of us lay people simply call a cult.
http://jezebel.com/5708306/the-women-of-the-stay-at-home-daughters-movement
http://m.christianpost.com/news/dug...s-and-wife-highlighted-after-scandal--108697/
http://starcasm.net/archives/263843


Finally, TLC has been pivotal in whitewashing much about the extremism of this family, who had become very powerful in the national and international IFB community. For example, I used to be able to find early web articles and posts about JimBob's scary political affiliation with a Christian separatist movement that desires to create a separate, southern nation out of one southern state, which would be governed Sharia-like by biblical law. Those links have been cleaned up on the internet over the years.