AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #2

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I believe that MD said that "this sort of thing was very common and that they had spoken to other families who had experienced this" (paraphrasing). Considering their rather constricted world of acquaintances, how did they know these families, and how do you ever start a conversation like that?

"Our son molested his sisters- anything like that going on in your family?" And why in the world would you confide something like that to someone else?

Or was this a big roundtable discussion at the Big Sandy conference? Conference Room 3, 11am, Sibling Molestation in Super-Sized Families....

Or was it just another fib in an attempt to downplay what happened? "Everybody does it."

I don 't remember how they phrased it, but the parents said something about how it happens in lots of families.

IMO, this is their attempt to normalize incestuous sexual abuse, as if to say "We're not the only ones, so what's the big deal?"

As far as I'm concerned, if the parents are personally acquainted with other families in their extremist culture in which this is occurring, then something very serious and dangerous is going on.

When I looked at one of Gothard's lesson plans (that was posted in the previous thread), it was apparent that the entire lesson was centered around sex and the concept of chastity. I was flabbergasted. Why would a history lesson, or a chemistry lesson (that was being taught to children) be hyper-focused on sexuality?

That was a red flag to me, and seems to indicate that this extremist culture is inordinately obsessed with sex.

I suspect that many of the adherents to Gothard's teachings have skeletons of a depraved sexual nature rattling around in their closets, and are desperately seeking some method to keep those hideous skeletons hidden and under control, lest they be discovered, as has occurred in this case.
 
Yay escapesc! You escaped and have a better life. You learned from it and made positive changes instead of going down the same path!!!!kudos!

I am sure it was not easy.
 
Bless you escape2sc. ((((hug))))

Thank You for sharing the story of your journey.
 
Escape2SC, I am so sorry. Your story really clarified how these people work. Thank you for sharing.
 
I think it's no coincidence that we see a lot of sexual abuse happen in these so called 'purity' sects .. and yes, there is way too much focus on sex. My guess is yes, the Duggars do know a lot of families where this happens, wouldn't surprise me at all sadly.

Keep digging Duggars, you're doing a great job of letting everyone know what you're all about.
 
Thought I should add. My younger sister is in LE , in a town not far from where my brother lived when he died.. She went to his memorial service and had an interesting conversation with a social worker . Apparently, in the last months of my brother's life, Social Services became involved as guardians for his teenage children ( son and daughter ) That converstation led my sister to do some research on her own. It seems LE and Social Services have been a constant presense in his life for decades , in all the different states he has lived in. Dozens of allegations from his friends with their children and from his own children's friends. Due to his moving around a lot , type of friends he associated with , shortage of case workers to continue follow up , etc the investigations could never turn up enough to charge him with anything.
 
When I was 9 yrs old , the police came to our house one night, to talk to my parent's and brother about a neighbor reporting that my 14 yr old brother had molested their 7 yr old daughter. This was 40 years ago, and other than not being able to be friends with the little girl anymore, " talking " to my brother and parents was all that happened. Neither the police or my parents , asked me or my 10 yr old sister any questions. Maybe talking was all that happened because my dad was a corrections officer and the Warden of the Federal Penn was a frequent visitor at our house. Even if they had asked us questions, we wouldn't of said anything because my dad was physically abusing my mom and we had learned long ago not to talk about what happened behind closed doors. My sister and I were both molested by my brother , we have never talked about it. About 10 years ago, our younger sister asked why we didn't talk to our brother and we both blurted out because he molested me and we have never mentioned it again.
I have a ton of childhood memories from before I was 9 and a ton of memomories after I turned 14 and started working afterschool and on weekends and I wasn't home that much. I remember the molestation that occured around the same time as the neighbor girl , but I don't remember birthdays or Christmas or school friends for the 5 years after that. And even though I remembered what my brother had done when I was 9 , I got along fine with my brother from when I was 14 until I was 29. I didn't like him but I didn't dislike him either..he was my brother . Then my oldest daughter was about to turn 9 and I suddenly developed a strong dislike to my brother. I would literally get sick if I saw him or heard his voice or just thought of him. I cut off all connection with him. I did not want him anywhere near my daughters . And I suddenly devolped a repulsion to my husband going more than 2 days without shaving. I couldn't stand to be near my husband if he had whiskers , have no idea why since my brother did not have whiskers when I was 9 but am thankful I can't remember why I hate whiskers.
I have never told my mom what happened, I don't think she failed me then because at the time , she was pretty busy trying to keep my dad from beating her every week or trying to get groceries before all the money went to beer. For the last 20 years, she has known I didn't want anything to do with my brother, she never asked why and I have never had the heart to tell her because I have never thought it was her fault. A few years ago, my brother was very ill and wasn't expected to live . He asked my mom for my phone number to tell me goodbye and my mom gave it to him. I am still upset with her for not asking my permission first because he didn't call to apologize or ask forgiveness. ( he put emphasis on the bolded words ) I said hello, he said " Hi xxxxxx( childhood pet name ) I just called to LOVE ON you one last time. Just wanted to reach out and STROKE my little sister one last time " I hung up the phone, threw up all over the floor and then called and had my phone number changed . It was several weeks before I spoke to my mom again .



I don't think the Duggar girls know what Josh did is wrong because they have been told it has happened in alot of other families. I never realized how dysfunctional my childhood was until I met my 2nd husband and met a family without alcoholics and physical abusers. All my uncles were alcoholics, my first husband's family were alcoholics and physical abusers. etc etc

I believe they will be in denial until their daughters are about the same age they were when the abuse happened. Only if they break away from the cult and come to realize women are not second class citizens and they do not want their daughters to be treated as man's possession.

I do not think they will ever blame Michelle because she wasn't the one abusing them .

I find JB to be very disturbing and would not be surprised to read one day of abuse allegations against him .

Josh is a pedophile..I am certain there are more victims and I am certain his daughters are in danger. I do not believe sexual abusers ever stop..they are manipulative, predatory animals. Always looking for their next victim.

I always felt bad for not talking to my brother all those years. There was always the thought that he was a victim of our childhood too, that he was just a " boy" when he molested me. Well that phone call from him sure took care of that. He knew what he was doing at 14 and he sure as hell knew what he was doing when he said those things to me in that phone call. Disgusting evil ..may he rot in hell

I am so sorry as to what you have endured. That phone call is beyond sick and cruel. I hope you are doing well today and have/had a support system. I hear you. That is my biggest fear about Josh today. I agree they minimize their victimization. If there are not others due to their bubble world there sure is many more instances than Josh admitted to.
 
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Is there an actual definiton of sexual abuse? It sounds like you are saying only penetration and a beating and perhaps a hostage/tied up situation is real and everything else isn't worthy of being called sexual abuse?

This offends me because I was a victim of "mild abuse" by an uncle that only lasted a few minutes and where I coudn't escape and now in my mid 40s i am still dealing with the effects of that and having a parent who didn't protect me (knowing it would likely happen) and didn't care when I told her.

I have been to therapy about it and all therapists have called that sexual abuse.

Its also like saying stage I cancer isn't really cancer because those with stage IV are going to die and so they have the real true cancer experience.

Or someone with mild post partum depression isn't having the true experince because she didnt kill her kids like Andrea Yates did.

It sounds like you have joined the minimizing club and that makes me sad that you want to classify what is and isnt sexual abuse according to your terms.

It also makes me sad and I feel like this is an example of how women are our own worst enemies sometimes. :(


I feel this is a very important post. So many factors go into the healing process. It may be that creepy uncle soand so likes to squeeze a butt cheek and everyone knows and tries to avoid him. You may get caught one time and are able to take a shower and rinse the slimy away. ......But then someone you trust gets too intimate and you know its wrong, thats harder to get away from. Too many factors go into it besides just being asleep (yeah right), over the clothes etc. Who can you you tell? Are you told to get over it, it's no big deal?

Comparing wounds and minimizing what happened to someone on an arbitrary scale does a big disservice to victims.


jmo
 
Here is the full interview with the girls for those who missed it:

[video=youtube;PmEgQjKiHK8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmEgQjKiHK8[/video]
 
Just wondering, are the women/girls in this family somehow spiritually obliged to avoid cutting their hair (at least with respect to the general length of it)? Or do some have short hair? I've seen some (enough) episodes of the show, but I wouldn't pay attention to something like that.
 
Apparently JimBob the dad likes long curled hair, hence the hairstyles (I know)!
 
JMO, but seems like another sexual control issue. I just looked at those girls' hair, and had to think that it would have taken many years to grow it that long. I've got nothing against long hair, mind you. It just seems that if it is a policy, it is a sexual policy.

I can understand military branches requiring certain sorts of hairstyles, but they are of a different order of institution than is a family.
 
I didn't watch the interview, just came across this quote. OH. EM. GEE.

Seewald explained: “…I can speak out and I can say this and set the record straight here. Like in Josh’s case, he was a boy, a young boy in puberty and a little too curious about girls. And that got him into some trouble. And he made some bad choices, but really the extent of it was mild, inappropriate touching, on fully clothed victims, most of it while girls were sleeping.”

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...le-too-curious-about-girls/?intcmp=latestnews

As others have posted, normal 14-year-old males "a little too curious about girls" don't seek out 5-year-olds to satisfy their curiosity.

And usually it takes only one instance of whateveritis for humans to "satisfy their curiosity." Not multiple instances of whateveritis spread out over more than a year. I know that whenever I've done something to satisfy my curiosity, one time and I'm done. Anything beyond that becomes an interest.

"Mild, inappropriate touching"? As opposed to severe inappropriate touching, I guess.

"Most of it while the girls were sleeping." The fact that the victims were sleeping mitigates Josh's culpability? Shouldn't that make it worse, considering if they truly slept through the whole thing (which I doubt), that robbed them of their ability to fight back?

At least they did use the word "victims" in their attempt to otherwise downplay their brother's victimization of them and their sisters. Out of the mouths of babes, which these poor brainwashed girls are IMO.

And from the freeze frame in post 1109 that they are still adhering to Gothard's dictum for long, medium brown, wavy hair.
 
JMO, but seems like another sexual control issue. I just looked at those girls' hair, and had to think that it would have taken many years to grow it that long. I've got nothing against long hair, mind you. It just seems that if it is a policy, it is a sexual policy.

I can understand military branches requiring certain sorts of hairstyles, but they are of a different order of institution than is a family.

BBM for focus.

You are correct. I know this from personal experience. I grew my hair similarly to the Duggars', not due to any external influence, but because I liked it that way. It wasn't until I was a junior in high school, as I recall, that it reached my waist after only maintenance trims from about age 7 or so.
 
Just wondering, are the women/girls in this family somehow spiritually obliged to avoid cutting their hair (at least with respect to the general length of it)? Or do some have short hair? I've seen some (enough) episodes of the show, but I wouldn't pay attention to something like that.
I've never seen the show but have done a lot of research into the patriarchy/quiverfull movements (eerily, it very much mirrors what happens in an emotionally abusive relationship) - long and wavy (or soft curls) is considered the 'ideal' for ATI/IBLP female followers based on Gothard's teachings. There are dozens of accounts shared online expressing this. Here's one I found that's a perfect example of shaming someone into compliance:

Gothard was controlling of his staff to the point of criticizing the hue of a female employee’s fingernails, (while coloring his own hair a noticeably unnatural shade of burgundy). Gothard surrounded himself with willowy, long-haired, very young women. Appearance mattered a lot to him. One young woman who had been invited to join the ATI staff in Russia got a fresh and cute haircut right before her trip. When she reached Chicago, she was pulled from the group and hidden away at a small campus in Indiana until her hair grew out to an acceptable length. I was appalled by her story, but she blamed herself for not considering her hairstyle more carefully.
http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-snake-for-fish-my-life-following.html
 
Thank you for such well-informed answers. While I have no issue with someone choosing to grow his/her hair long, I guess I have to question when people are compelled to do so. So thank you both, IzzyBlanche and BritsKate.
 
In my post #1113 I referred to Gothard's teaching that the ideal hair for women is long, wavy, and light brown. Just wanted to add that I read that somewhere but I don't have the link handy. I'll try to find it later.

But the discussion of hair reminded me of something else I thought of: no way Michelle's hair (nor Jim Bob's for that matter) are completely gray-free at their ages. They have to be coloring it. Isn't that immodesty? I know immodesty doesn't apply to men in their worldview but still.

And also it looks to me as if Michelle's hair would take a long time to style, the bangs alone. Wouldn't that time be better spent caring for her 19 blessings from God instead of making herself look so pretty that her husband can't help but dry hump her at the Putt-Putt in front of their daughter?

Good grief these people make me want to hurl.

And what makes me want to projectile hurl is the $ they have earned with their self-righteous hypocrisy, $ that could have gone a long way toward good works performed by sincere Christians--and those of other religions as well--to help those in true need.



/rant
 
Clearly, hair that...distinctive takes a long time to groom, not to mention the money for the product. I'm no theologian, but I don't really see how spending that much time or money fits into any sort of a modesty plan.

Mind you, I'm all for people doing their hair as well or awfully or indifferently as they like. But I hope that if they spend a lot of time or money, they wont be making me feel guilty for spending whatever time or money I do on my hair.

And for what it's worth, I don't see how a pledge of modesty is consistent with being the focus of a television show about how wonderful ones family is. But that's just my opinion.

(It is also my opinion that these sorts of contradictions/tensions have to have some consequences for their many innocent kids. I hope they get help/break free.)
 
II'I'd guess that the length of their hair is biblically required.

1 Corinthians 11:15

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her, for her hair is given to her as a covering."

The style though. ...I'll agree with you all, it's got to be "someone's" personal preference.

All I know is that my kinky Irish hair would not ever fit the bill, lol.
 
Clearly, hair that...distinctive takes a long time to groom, not to mention the money for the product. I'm no theologian, but I don't really see how spending that much time or money fits into any sort of a modesty plan.

Mind you, I'm all for people doing their hair as well or awfully or indifferently as they like. But I hope that if they spend a lot of time or money, they wont be making me feel guilty for spending whatever time or money I do on my hair.

And for what it's worth, I don't see how a pledge of modesty is consistent with being the focus of a television show about how wonderful ones family is. But that's just my opinion.

(It is also my opinion that these sorts of contradictions/tensions have to have some consequences for their many innocent kids. I hope they get help/break free.)

My uber AOG family members do not cut their hair. However, they do not style it wavy or curly it or anything. But all of the daughters have long flat hair. Way past the waist is common . fwiw
 
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