WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

It doesn't help not having Hessel's book so I didn't know where the house was.

I just thought it a weird coincidence that a John Peterson was on the list when Driscoll and Gaulthair were originally named back in '51, same charge as well. Maybe it is nothing.

I agree, those boys could very well be men.
 
Why wouldn't someone who knows something about the case want to say anything about it now? And again, can someone answer these questions:
So, has anyone found out the name of the farmer? Why were those names deleted from the transcript, does anyone know whose names they were? Any luck on locating the names of the couple who did the inte
 
Why wouldn't someone who knows something about the case want to say anything about it now? And again, can someone answer these questions:

Most people don't want to get involved.

So, has anyone found out the name of the farmer?

No one that I'm aware of.

Why were those names deleted from the transcript, does anyone know whose names they were? Any luck on locating the names of the couple who did the inte

They were deleted by the author at the request of the police. I have no idea who the couple were/are.
 
Police refused to discuss the case with this reporter except to say the cars owner had been a suspect and was cleared.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/...ous-hush-hush-veils-probe-of-baby-sitter#text

It's interesting about that article saying the car's owner had been a suspect and was cleared on page 8.

Police say the car's owner was "completely cleared" during the car-check made here by filling station attendants five days after the abduction. Attendants checked all cars for blood stains and inspected car trunks, reporting anything of a suspicious nature to police.

I'm sure hoping that the above unorthodox car-check procedure (which occurred 5 days after the kidnapping) wasn't the only one they used to clear the owner. A good auto upholsterer could reupholster bloodied material in that time.

If the owner of the vehicle was cleared, one would be inclined to question the statement by the witness.

For instance, the witness drove into a driveway at his brother-in-law's house to pick him up for the game. That house was a block away and was located at either 2315 or 2321 Sunrise Drive. The reason being that two of his wife's sisters lived at each address. The news articles do not say which brother-in-law he visited. (Two brothers from one family married two sisters from his wife's family)

In the glare of his headlights and with the help of a full moon, street lamp and porch lights, the witness saw two figures staggering along against a yellow house a block away- a man and a girl. Blood was found in a window well at that location

That yellow house was the Eugene Downer residence at 2311 Coulee Drive which was behind and slightly northeast of 2415 Hoeschler Drive, Viggo Rasmusen's residence, where Evelyn Hartley was kidnapped from. Railroad tracks are to the east of both residences.

A Google map showing where the houses are. Please note that if one were to pull into either of the driveways on Sunrise Drive they would not have a direct line of sight to the Eugene Downer residence on Coulee Drive because of the garages in the way. Were those garages added later? I don't know.

When Mr. X left the Sunrise address, he went north on Sunrise where he almost collided with another vehicle coming from the area of the yellow house. That could only have been the intersection of Weston St. & Sunrise Dr.

https://goo.gl/maps/DcRV8

Below are excerpts from La Crosse city directories. Note the occupation of Mr. X, a painter contractor. His wife's brother was a spray painter at Cassidy Body Shop and Voight Packard Auto. Incidently, his wife's brother's mother was a Marco(u) and they had also lived at Sand Lake Coulee, Onalaska, WI at one time. (I directed that at Robin Hood because he/she knows that a Napoleon Marco (a railroad employee) was living with the Percy Flynn family in Minnesota and at Sand Lake Coulee according to the censuses) Whether these Marco(u)'s are related is unknown.
 
An aerial view from 1953 showing the direction Evelyn was taken starting at 2415 Hoeschler Drive. Location 2 (blood found on garage) and 3 being the location where blood also was found and where Mr. X saw a man and girl from a driveway on Sunrise Drive 450 feet west. The resident of 2311 Coulee Drive was also a teacher. Location 4 is where the trail was lost by bloodhounds.
 
It's interesting about that article saying the car's owner had been a suspect and was cleared on page 8.



I'm sure hoping that the above unorthodox car-check procedure (which occurred 5 days after the kidnapping) wasn't the only one they used to clear the owner. A good auto upholsterer could reupholster bloodied material in that time.

If the owner of the vehicle was cleared, one would be inclined to question the statement by the witness.

For instance, the witness drove into a driveway at his brother-in-law's house to pick him up for the game. That house was a block away and was located at either 2315 or 2321 Sunrise Drive. The reason being that two of his wife's sisters lived at each address. The news articles do not say which brother-in-law he visited. (Two brothers from one family married two sisters from his wife's family)

In the glare of his headlights and with the help of a full moon, street lamp and porch lights, the witness saw two figures staggering along against a yellow house a block away- a man and a girl. Blood was found in a window well at that location

That yellow house was the Eugene Downer residence at 2311 Coulee Drive which was behind and slightly northeast of 2415 Hoeschler Drive, Viggo Rasmusen's residence, where Evelyn Hartley was kidnapped from. Railroad tracks are to the east of both residences.

A Google map showing where the houses are. Please note that if one were to pull into either of the driveways on Sunrise Drive they would not have a direct line of sight to the Eugene Downer residence on Coulee Drive because of the garages in the way. Were those garages added later? I don't know.

When Mr. X left the Sunrise address, he went north on Sunrise where he almost collided with another vehicle coming from the area of the yellow house. That could only have been the intersection of Weston St. & Sunrise Dr.

https://goo.gl/maps/DcRV8

Below are excerpts from La Crosse city directories. Note the occupation of Mr. X, a painter contractor. His wife's brother was a spray painter at Cassidy Body Shop and Voight Packard Auto. Incidently, his wife's brother's mother was a Marco(u) and they had also lived at Sand Lake Coulee, Onalaska, WI at one time. (I directed that at Robin Hood because he/she knows that a Napoleon Marco (a railroad employee) was living with the Percy Flynn family in Minnesota and at Sand Lake Coulee according to the censuses) Whether these Marco(u)'s are related is unknown.

Amazing connection if it's the same Marco, I'll have a look at it. Thanks.
 
An aerial view from 1953 showing the direction Evelyn was taken starting at 2415 Hoeschler Drive. Location 2 (blood found on garage) and 3 being the location where blood also was found and where Mr. X saw a man and girl from a driveway on Sunrise Drive 450 feet west. The resident of 2311 Coulee Drive was also a teacher. Location 4 is where the trail was lost by bloodhounds.

Anyone: What is location #5 about? Why does the trail come from the front door rather than the basement window? As an indication of the abductors' path to the Rasmusen home, is there a map of the houses that had pry marks on their windows?
 
Why were those names deleted from the transcript, does anyone know whose names they were?

Here's a little more info in regards to your question... The only one of that group at the bar who I could find (so far) with ties to a location "south of La Farge" was Dorien Barclay, who lived at one time in the Town of Forest (with his parents, Edward & Della), outside of Viola, Richland County, WI. I would think that it would be easy enough to get plat maps from 1953 for that area to see who lived where.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t7241.htm

Andy Thompson, Peggy Lovejoy and Susan T. Hessel are collaborating on a book about Hartley, who went missing from a baby-sitting job in La Crosse on Oct. 24, 1953. When they made a plea in the La Crosse Tribune for anyone with knowledge to come forward, it sparked Mel Williams' memory.

"Well, I even forgot I had the tape," said Williams, 76, of La Farge, Wis. "I simply forgot about it until I saw (the story) in the paper."

Back then, around 1968, he was a musician and was taping a band in a La Farge bar, The Raven. The bar is still there, but now it's called The Getaway.

Williams says he doesn't know whether the men on the tape were speaking the truth.

"Anybody can make up a story. But there's got to be something to this," he said. "Why would the story come to this town? Why does everybody (in La Farge) have a story about this?"

The tape includes a conversation between an unidentified man and a man who implicates himself and another in Hartley's disappearance.

Williams and the book collaborators know the implicated men's identities, both of whom are dead, but the Tribune will not reveal them at this time.

"I do know they were capable of it," Williams said.

"(The man on the tape) claimed to take Hartley from La Crosse to a house in La Farge," Thompson said, and from there to a location south of La Farge where he supposedly buried her.

When he listened to the tape, Thompson said, he got the impression that the other man implicated had committed suicide because of his involvement with the Hartley case.

Further on at that link...

Peterson was associated with a group of men who Williams described as "drunk veterans," and they frequented Williams' tavern in La Farge, about 45 minutes south of La Crosse.

However, Peterson was by himself when Williams began the interview. By himself, that is, until he was joined by Whitey Barkley (Dorien Leland "Whitey" Barclay), a local mink farmer and "a bigmouth," according to Williams.

"He knew everything," said the barkeeper. "He said, ‘Tell him about that Hartley girl you kidnapped, Tywee.'"

And he did.

By (Clyde) "Tywee" Peterson's account, he went with Jack Gaulphair (Gaulthair) (a local "vagabond," said Williams) and a mutual friend to La Crosse on that fateful Saturday night.

Gaulphair (Frank L. Gaulthair) knew or knew of Hartley, and where she was babysitting. From the Rasmussen home, they took Hartley to their friend's farm.

There, Gaulphair (Gaulthair) killed her.

Unfortunately, he could not be questioned: Gaulphair (Gaulthair) had committed suicide less than 10 years after the kidnapping.

Authorities have asked that the place of the murder and Hartley's makeshift grave alleged on Williams' recording remain undisclosed. What they don't they want us to know needs to be made public after 62 years.

Williams and the book collaborators know the implicated men's identities, both of whom are dead, but the Tribune will not reveal them at this time.

Here I thought the newspapers were supposed to be exposing the truth, not hiding it. No wonder this case is still unsolved.
 
Anyone: What is location #5 about? Why does the trail come from the front door rather than the basement window? As an indication of the abductors' path to the Rasmusen home, is there a map of the houses that had pry marks on their windows?

I think location #5 is the crime lab van shown in the photo where all the evidence that was collected ended up.

I'm thinking the trail leads from the front door because that is where they figured the kidnapper came in to the house (muddy footprints from the tennis shoes were only found in the living room, none in the basement) and left the house with Evelyn. The only fingerprints found on the basement window were on the inside of the glass.

As far as the pry marks on the windows, I did notice a photo in one of the online newspapers showing the houses that had pry marks on them, including the bedroom window of the Rasmusen child.
 
In the glare of his headlights from a driveway on Sunrise Drive and with the help of a full moon, street lamp and porch lights, Mr. X saw two figures staggering along against a yellow house a block away at 2311 Coulee Drive - a man and a girl.

Is this possible or even credible?

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/...icle/heres-mr-xs-story-in-baby-sitter-mystery

It doesn't look possible to me. I can't help thinking they mention the lighting so much.
''with the help of a full moon, street lamp and porch lights''
It's as if somebody is trying to force the point it was light enough to see.
 
In the glare of his headlights from a driveway on Sunrise Drive and with the help of a full moon, street lamp and porch lights, Mr. X saw two figures staggering along against a yellow house a block away at 2311 Coulee Drive - a man and a girl.

Is this possible or even credible?

I suppose it's possible if the killer lived somewhere near there. It's also possible that the man was mistaken about the location, was lying for whatever reason or that it was a different couple. There's also a possibility that the dogs were wrong.
 
What if the man was there and did see somebody in the distance but it wasn't clear who or what. Then he hears from another source (maybe family whispers) who did take Evelyn and thinks, if I exaggerate how light it was, they'll think I did see the kidnapping. He'd console himself with the lie in knowing the right people were being accused. It would account for the time between the crime and him coming forward, as he probably wasn't told right away.
 
One thing is though at that time there were no trees and less houses. There may have been nothing to obstruct his view. Still a bit far, hard to say though. Having been in this neighborhood several times, the houses are all very close together, so it seems not as far as the overhead view gives.
 
One thing is though at that time there were no trees and less houses. There may have been nothing to obstruct his view. Still a bit far, hard to say though. Having been in this neighborhood several times, the houses are all very close together, so it seems not as far as the overhead view gives.

All the houses that were in the 1953 overhead view are the same ones today on Google. (Mr X) says he pulled into the driveway of his brother-in-law's house on Sunrise and his headlights illuminated the man and girl 500 feet away, with the help of the full moon, street lamp and porch lights. Those driveways, 2315 and 2321 Sunrise Drive are where his two B-I-L's lived.

There's a house (which was there in 1953) in the way of the direct line of sight between 2315 Sunrise and 2311 Coulee Dr, so it couldn't have been that one. So it had to be 2321 Sunrise Drive, a distance of 500 feet from 2311 Coulee Dr. I concede there is a direct line of sight, if the garage at 2321 Sunrise Dr wasn't in the way, as shown in my map below.

I find it hard to believe someone can see a man and girl 500 feet at night by headlight between houses, let alone distinguish they were a man and a girl staggering. If the attached garage at 2321 Sunrise was already built at that time, then I totally disbelieve it.

A low beam headlamp shines for a distance of about 150 feet. I don't know how powerful they were in 1953.

I suppose one would have to carry out an experiment to prove or disprove it. That would be a nice project next time you're in La Crosse!
 
Great work.
Wow 62 is years and still hiding the truth. They are either dead or very old now. How do they live with themselves. (Anyone who had a hand in this)
It be great if someone found her/the car she's in. A confession that is credible.
I would like to listen to that tape. So let asked the farm owners names to be removed? They must be big time or high up in the food chain.
I often think if Evelyn. Hope there's something concrete to come out.
 
why is a shoe downstairs and one upstairs and why the hell would he take her out a basement window if his size 11 showprind was found upstairs why not go out the front door now that he was in ..i get breaking in u come in the window but how do u drag a full grown girl out a basement window very oddd to me.
 
also with all the blood ..did they save it ..can they now do dna on it...
 
All good questions.
My thoughts are inexperienced teenagers.
Maybe it was just to scare her or the regular babysitter and took it to far.
Did they ever do a age regression for her.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
98
Guests online
3,868
Total visitors
3,966

Forum statistics

Threads
592,284
Messages
17,966,589
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top