CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 #16

[Niner]

Chase Merritt/McStay murders - Curtis Reeves, the grumpy old man that shot a poor man, in a theather for texting, before the movie started! - Robert Durst, if he lives that long. A few more off top of my head, but trial dates not firmly stated. They keep continuing, delaying.

and here's a few that I'll be following:
Sierra LaMar in California - Garcia her killer has hearing July 29th
Aaron Hernandez is up for a double murder hearing August 8th
Russian girl, people say Latvian, but she's Russian (LOL!) - killed her BF Vincent Viafore in NY
and in Hawaii Carly "Charli" Scott - July 16th hearing

Hope to see every one of you on these cases!!

 

[LyndyLoo]

See you tomorrow 9 a.m. - rebuttal

11AM EDT for those living on the Eastern seaboard..LOL Ohh yeah..4PM for Maisie :loveyou:

How can the shooter make this choice not to testify? He's insane, right?

Because he's medicated..BS..He's always been aware of what he did was WRONG therefore culpable according to Colorado Law..His altering responses to so many Experts..His constant retaking of tests allowed him to manipulate results..He's in deep trouble and his testifying wouldn't help...I'm amazed he could even sit in a courtroom full of superior folks >including dozens+ of JUDGEMENT folks (jury) without acting out ..His med's cannot control to that extent for months on end the constant pressure..he really should have tried to testify..act all weird..and just maybe a juror or two would say yeah..He's coo coo like coco puffs.. LOL

 

[cujenn81]

My grandson was just diagnosed with ADHD....guess he's next on her list. No doubt, ANY illness leads to her favorite subject...schizophrenia....and her grant money

I have ADHD and both my mom & grandma have bipolar disorder. This lady would definitely deem me Schizophrenia-prone! But I'm happy to report there are no delusions here.

I've also taken that test that determines if you has a personality disorder by my pdoc that prescribes my ADHD meds (due to my mom/genetics & because I have panic attacks, occasionally) but I was all clear!

It appears I dodged the BPD gene... thank goodness! I love my mother to death, and I thank God every day that she tolerates her meds well and doesn't mind taking them (she's only had 3 major manic episodes---knock on wood---and they've all occurred as a result of a major life event---retirement, my brothers wedding, and a move)... BUT I don't think I could deal with having BPD as well as she has.

Sorry for the off-topic rambling there...

 

[Hatfield]

Here's a thought - if Gur was positive about her opinion, then why did she have to argue & yell? Why didn't she present her opinion in an intelligent manner? She was so casual about it, "someone with that high of IQ (that really wasn't that high), would never write such bizarre things."
That doesn't sound like a medically sound statement by an expert! IMO, KWIM?

Watching this replay from earlier, she is totally lying as her own DT questions her on her memory about watching Reid's video.

She goes into these "Yes Yes Yes" responses to questions about very specific parts of Dr. Reids video interview and there is no way she would remember those parts without notes.

She even got busted again because the DT then asked her about a certain part they showed her on replay and she said she could not even understand because of all the background sound.

It becomes very obvious there is no way she sat through and watched his entire set of video tapes. I bet she skimmed through certain parts.

 

[MissHaley]

and here's a few that I'll be following:
Sierra LaMar in California - Garcia her killer has hearing July 29th
Aaron Hernandez is up for a double murder hearing August 8th
Russian girl, people say Latvian, but she's Russian (LOL!) - killed her BF Vincent Viafore in NY
and in Hawaii Carly "Charli" Scott - July 16th hearing

Hope to see every one of you on these cases!!

BBM-

Thanks! I'll add these to the list. Completely forgot Hernandez (can't blame me). I will look for you!

 

[LyndyLoo]

I have ADHD and both my mom & grandma have bipolar disorder. This lady would definitely deem me Schizophrenia-prone! But I'm happy to report there are no delusions here.

I've also taken that test that determines if you has a personality disorder by my pdoc that prescribes my ADHD meds (due to my mom/genetics & because I have panic attacks, occasionally) but I was all clear!

It appears I dodged the BPD gene... thank goodness! I love my mother to death, and I thank God every day that she tolerates her meds well and doesn't mind taking them (she's only had 3 major manic episodes---knock on wood---and they've all occurred as a result of a major life event---retirement, my brothers wedding, and a move)... BUT I don't think I could deal with having BPD as well as she has.

Sorry for the off-topic rambling there...

Bless you!! you are not alone..there's a whole host of posters here who have a family member or even themselves have had symptoms..taken meds etc and I know it's difficult to listen to victims..and especially supposed experts suggesting things as cross the board applicable...SHAME ON THEM because you all are proof..It simply cannot be diagnosed and loud voiced affirm such reducer opinions based on a 13 hour interview..as that was Gur's time..and declared her verdict//Insane..

My career path led me to interact with all forms of mental disease and levels of severity...there is NO way she can or SHOULD be so boastful and be SO I discount her...especially lacking board certification credentials....Then again Dr. Reid applied all applications..didn't cherry pick to suit a particular agenda..He simply looked at Totality of Information BEFORE he made any conclusions..Gur on the other hand made her conclusion and sought proof of it...SMH

Bless those who can even stand to listen to such BS..and remain stable and understand how to dismiss things that are totally BUNK!! She's more focus'd on getting more Grants..After her fail..DOUBT she will ever again (along with her husband) will receive yet another DIME!! IMO

 

[Maisiebelle]

and here's a few that I'll be following:
Sierra LaMar in California - Garcia her killer has hearing July 29th
Aaron Hernandez is up for a double murder hearing August 8th
Russian girl, people say Latvian, but she's Russian (LOL!) - killed her BF Vincent Viafore in NY
and in Hawaii Carly "Charli" Scott - July 16th hearing

Hope to see every one of you on these cases!!

Will any of these be televised?


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[LyndyLoo]

Will any of these be televised?


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Sadly NO..Gone are the days of "Court TV"..it mainly live stream or snippets only in media mentions..I sure miss Court TV!!

 

[cujenn81]

I am sorry but the younger schizophrenics I worked with could not have carried this out during a full psychotic episode. The intricate planning--heck most of them would have blown themselves up just setting one incendiary device in the apartment- His home wiring was very intricate--what did it take--2 days to defuse the place. Throwing a "smoke bomb" before shooting to confuse people--also it would burn the victim's eyes and further limit their vision and ability to get away..That's not a psychotic episode. It's cold methodical plan by an unfeeling killer. And, yes I want to see this kind of evil get the DP.
That's my rant of the year. IMHO.

I agree completely. Although my mom has bipolar and not schizophrenia, she's had a few major manic episodes where she didn't sleep for literally weeks at a time... and she developed psychotic symptoms similar to those who have schizophrenia.

When she suffered from psychosis, she couldn't plan a lunch... much less an attack this deliberate and well planned out. One time, she left the house while me and my dad were in other rooms and she was gone for hours and we had no idea where she was or if she was okay. She finally showed back up with a cop (who thought she had dementia) after a customer called them concerned because she was wandering around LOST... at the driving range... ACROSS THE STREET from our house.

It has alwayssss taken a MONTH long stay (minimum!) in a psychiatric hospital to balance out her medication and get her back to her normal sane self. A few days in the hospital with an IV drip wouldn't have made a bit of difference like the supposed world of a difference it made for this guy.

ETA: sorry for all the caps... I get kind of amped up sometimes when people who do heinous acts stand behind an insanity defense when it's CLEAR they weren't insane at the time. I feel like it's a slap in the face to every mentally ill person who's actually dealt w/ their own insanity/psychotic episodes and only adds to the stigma already associated w/ MI. I understand and accept there have been people who have done some incredibly horrible things while they were legitimately insane (and their poor souls have had to deal with the aftermath and the horror and the remorse they've undoubtedly felt after realizing exactly what they've done) and I also understand that he really had no other option in this situation... but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Bless you!! you are not alone..there's a whole host of posters here who have a family member or even themselves have had symptoms..taken meds etc and I know it's difficult to listen to victims..and especially supposed experts suggesting things as cross the board applicable...SHAME ON THEM because you all are proof..It simply cannot be diagnosed and loud voiced affirm such reducer opinions based on a 13 hour interview..as that was Gur's time..and declared her verdict//Insane..

My career path led me to interact with all forms of mental disease and levels of severity...there is NO way she can or SHOULD be so boastful and be SO I discount her...especially lacking board certification credentials....Then again Dr. Reid applied all applications..didn't cherry pick to suit a particular agenda..He simply looked at Totality of Information BEFORE he made any conclusions..Gur on the other hand made her conclusion and sought proof of it...SMH

Bless those who can even stand to listen to such BS..and remain stable and understand how to dismiss things that are totally BUNK!! She's more focus'd on getting more Grants..After her fail..DOUBT she will ever again (along with her husband) will receive yet another DIME!! IMO

You all know I struggled to watch the video of JH and Dr Reid. I've had issues with depression and I've suffered panic attacks since I was 17 (44 now!). I have a fear of mental illness.

I wondered whether I would feel the same way with Dr Gur but miraculously she didn't worry me. She just annoyed me! I don't think she came across as a credible witness at all. It was all about how fabulous/clever/academic she is. I will eat my iPad if the jury take her seriously!


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[Maisiebelle]

Sadly NO..Gone are the days of "Court TV"..it mainly live stream or snippets only in media mentions..I sure miss Court TV!!

I used to watch court TV online. I was a member of an online forum where we discussed the Codey Posey trial. That feels like years ago now!


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[Hatfield]

JMO

Here is my verdict of why I think JH should be found guilty of this crime. I dont mind whether the penalty is LWOP or DP but I do mind that the verdict should be guilty. And here is why I feel this way based on the CO law.

My understanding is if either of these tests would pass then he would be NG. I think he fails both these tests and the PT proved it.

#1
"The first test of insanity is listed in C.R.S. § 16-8-101.5(1)(a): "A person who is so diseased or defective in mind at the time of the commission of the act as to be incapable of distinguishing right from wrong with respect to the act is not accountable" (meaning the person is NGRI)."

-He fails this test because he knew what he was doing was wrong.
HE KNEW. Hands down he knew.

#2
"The second test of insanity is listed in C.R.S. 16-8-101.5(1)(b): "A person who suffered from a condition of mind caused by mental disease or defect that prevented the person from forming a culpable mental state that is an essential element of a crime charged" cannot be held criminally responsible (meaning the person is NGRI)."

-He definitely was able to form a culpable mental state. He did it numerous times before the murder during all his preparations. And he did it during the murder as he carefully carried out the attack.

He definitely had developed a culpable mental state numerous times before, during, and after the murder. We see him in the courtroom in a guaranteed culpable mental state. We saw him with Dr. Reid in a culpable mental state.

How we know is he would have not carried out his plan so meticulously if he had not entered that state. It would have been much more sporadic, unorganized, disheveled, etc etc

Yeah, he is GUILTY. Hands down. By Law of definition.
A little twisted at times, yes. But by LAW, he is guilty of this crime.

http://www.9news.com/story/news/201...-reason-of-insanity-legal-precedent/26423245/

 

[MsJosie]

Off Topic. Earlier I had to leave as I was on a mission for a little boy. I said I would write about it.

If anyone wants to read more, please go to FB, and type in Chipper's Friends.

Chipper, is a dog who did not pass the Service Dog test, but she had greater things in store for her. Chipper lives with her sister dog, Cheyenne and her furless parents in Colorado.

JJ is a little boy who lives with his caregiver, Louise, in Kentucky.

Chipper has taken the mission of saving JJ's life. JJ has cancer. It is in his head, stomach and leg and possibly elsewhere, I am not sure. About a month ago JJ had to have his leg amputated. Two weeks ago the doctors had to amputate the rest of JJ's leg due to an infection. JJ has been very very depressed, not eating, talking, losing weight.

Before surgery, JJ underwent chemo. However, his body cannot tolerate any more chemo. There is a pill that he can take and did, very very expensive. The doctors say he needs another round of the pill and so Chipper and his family are doing all they can to help raise money for JJ's meds.

Before I go on, JJ's caregiver was just told, in August JJ has to have spinal surgery from nerve damage. Details will not be shared but it is another depressing surgery.

Meanwhile, Chipper has had several fund raisers. Drawings with his paws, Cheyenne had a 'how many balls can I catch in a minute' contest...etc. All to raise money to help with the medications.

Chipper has a JJ doll, that has his leg amputated at JJ's request. The JJ doll goes on hikes and places JJ cannot go. JJ can see video clips of the outings and pretend he is part of them.

JJ has a Chipper and a Cheyenne Stuffed Dog, that wear super capes. The animals were allowed in the surgery with JJ. The surgeons put on masks, bandages etc. so the animals could be with JJ during surgery.

Louise, JJ's caregiver, never asks for anything but appreciates anything. Even if it is just a card for JJ. JJ loves to get mail!!!! He loves to draw and really can draw well! There is a list of needs on the FB page, crayons and things for JJ, medical or special clothing needs. People have asked for that info and then some send WM GC, some little gifts and there is a web link for sending message to JJ on FB. I do not have that right now, but it is on Chipper's Friends page....messaging her furless mom and she will give you the link. JJ loves to read his FB page too!

I had made a pledge for the catching the ball and I needed to get that out with a card for JJ. I had to get it out in the mail before the next rain storm hit, which it did not! False weather reporting.

So that is the short story of JJ, Chipper, and Cheyenne. The long version with lots of nice pictures and funny stories of Chipper and Cheyenne is on FB under, Chipper's Friends.

These are the names being used to protect the little boys identity. Chipper explains this on her page. So I have not broken any laws by revealing names, etc.

Okay, back on topic. Thanks for listening. Sorry mods...I was off topic.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Off Topic. Earlier I had to leave as I was on a mission for a little boy. I said I would write about it.

If anyone wants to read more, please go to FB, and type in Chipper's Friends.

Chipper, is a dog who did not pass the Service Dog test, but she had greater things in store for her. Chipper lives with her sister dog, Cheyenne and her furless parents in Colorado.

JJ is a little boy who lives with his caregiver, Louise, in Kentucky.

Chipper has taken the mission of saving JJ's life. JJ has cancer. It is in his head, stomach and leg and possibly elsewhere, I am not sure. About a month ago JJ had to have his leg amputated. Two weeks ago the doctors had to amputate the rest of JJ's leg due to an infection. JJ has been very very depressed, not eating, talking, losing weight.

Before surgery, JJ underwent chemo. However, his body cannot tolerate any more chemo. There is a pill that he can take and did, very very expensive. The doctors say he needs another round of the pill and so Chipper and his family are doing all they can to help raise money for JJ's meds.

Before I go on, JJ's caregiver was just told, in August JJ has to have spinal surgery from nerve damage. Details will not be shared but it is another depressing surgery.

Meanwhile, Chipper has had several fund raisers. Drawings with his paws, Cheyenne had a 'how many balls can I catch in a minute' contest...etc. All to raise money to help with the medications.

Chipper has a JJ doll, that has his leg amputated at JJ's request. The JJ doll goes on hikes and places JJ cannot go. JJ can see video clips of the outings and pretend he is part of them.

JJ has a Chipper and a Cheyenne Stuffed Dog, that wear super capes. The animals were allowed in the surgery with JJ. The surgeons put on masks, bandages etc. so the animals could be with JJ during surgery.

Louise, JJ's caregiver, never asks for anything but appreciates anything. Even if it is just a card for JJ. JJ loves to get mail!!!! He loves to draw and really can draw well! There is a list of needs on the FB page, crayons and things for JJ, medical or special clothing needs. People have asked for that info and then some send WM GC, some little gifts and there is a web link for sending message to JJ on FB. I do not have that right now, but it is on Chipper's Friends page....messaging her furless mom and she will give you the link. JJ loves to read his FB page too!

I had made a pledge for the catching the ball and I needed to get that out with a card for JJ. I had to get it out in the mail before the next rain storm hit, which it did not! False weather reporting.

So that is the short story of JJ, Chipper, and Cheyenne. The long version with lots of nice pictures and funny stories of Chipper and Cheyenne is on FB under, Chipper's Friends.

Okay, back on topic. Thanks for listening. Sorry mods...I was off topic.

That is so heartwarming. I am going to have a look at the page! Prayers will be said for that little guy!


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[LyndyLoo]

I'm from Canada..DP was outlawed back in 1976 which means it's been 49 years ago..So I have no problem with LWOP...But since DP is on the table..I have not problem since it's still on their books..BUT actual chances of coming to fruition is next to 0%..because of appeals and decades of it..and likelihood of having DP verdicts being vacated and become LWOP...

In JH's case..I truly do not want the families to have to endure that roller coaster..BUT I know it will in the end up only inflicting more pain on them!! ...

These are juror's local..and just may render DP..(tho I feel it will never happen)

It's coming down to some states making changes to methods..DP by Firing Squad?? Yikes reminisce of mid 20th century??? Some states are considering hanging again..Oh talk about recalling the OLD DAYZ!!

 

[MissHaley]

JMO

Here is my verdict of why I think JH should be found guilty of this crime. I dont mind whether the penalty is LWOP or DP but I do mind that the verdict should be guilty. And here is why I feel this way based on the CO law.

My understanding is if either of these tests would pass then he would be NG. I think he fails both these tests and the PT proved it.

#1
"The first test of insanity is listed in C.R.S. § 16-8-101.5(1)(a): "A person who is so diseased or defective in mind at the time of the commission of the act as to be incapable of distinguishing right from wrong with respect to the act is not accountable" (meaning the person is NGRI)."

-He fails this test because he knew what he was doing was wrong.
HE KNEW. Hands down he knew.

#2
"The second test of insanity is listed in C.R.S. 16-8-101.5(1)(b): "A person who suffered from a condition of mind caused by mental disease or defect that prevented the person from forming a culpable mental state that is an essential element of a crime charged" cannot be held criminally responsible (meaning the person is NGRI)."

-He definitely was able to form a culpable mental state. He did it numerous times before the murder during all his preparations. And he did it during the murder as he carefully carried out the attack.

He definitely had developed a culpable mental state numerous times before, during, and after the murder. We see him in the courtroom in a guaranteed culpable mental state. We saw him with Dr. Reid in a culpable mental state.

How we know is he would have not carried out his plan so meticulously if he had not entered that state. It would have been much more sporadic, unorganized, disheveled, etc etc

Yeah, he is GUILTY. Hands down. By Law of definition.
A little twisted at times, yes. But by LAW, he is guilty of this crime.

http://www.9news.com/story/news/201...-reason-of-insanity-legal-precedent/26423245/

Wow Hatfield, thanks! this is great & really shows both prongs of legal insanity! I hope the jury sees this very clearly.
1. He knew the mass murder was wrong/illegal. He stated it in the texts with Gargi. He didn't want to be killed, he knew the shootings might get him killed.
2. Culpable mental state, well, that's clear & speaks for itself.

 

[MsJosie]

JJ, Chipper, Cheyenne and all would love prayers. Thank you so much for even reading.

 

[MissHaley]

JJ, Chipper, Cheyenne and all would love prayers. Thank you so much for even reading.

oh my gosh, Josie- I know of JJ & follow Chipper on FB & got books for my family at Christmas!
Is there a thread on WS for this?

 

[Hatfield]

Off Topic. Earlier I had to leave as I was on a mission for a little boy. I said I would write about it.

If anyone wants to read more, please go to FB, and type in Chipper's Friends.

Chipper, is a dog who did not pass the Service Dog test, but she had greater things in store for her. Chipper lives with her sister dog, Cheyenne and her furless parents in Colorado.

JJ is a little boy who lives with his caregiver, Louise, in Kentucky.

Chipper has taken the mission of saving JJ's life. JJ has cancer. It is in his head, stomach and leg and possibly elsewhere, I am not sure. About a month ago JJ had to have his leg amputated. Two weeks ago the doctors had to amputate the rest of JJ's leg due to an infection. JJ has been very very depressed, not eating, talking, losing weight.

Before surgery, JJ underwent chemo. However, his body cannot tolerate any more chemo. There is a pill that he can take and did, very very expensive. The doctors say he needs another round of the pill and so Chipper and his family are doing all they can to help raise money for JJ's meds.

Before I go on, JJ's caregiver was just told, in August JJ has to have spinal surgery from nerve damage. Details will not be shared but it is another depressing surgery.

Meanwhile, Chipper has had several fund raisers. Drawings with his paws, Cheyenne had a 'how many balls can I catch in a minute' contest...etc. All to raise money to help with the medications.

Chipper has a JJ doll, that has his leg amputated at JJ's request. The JJ doll goes on hikes and places JJ cannot go. JJ can see video clips of the outings and pretend he is part of them.

JJ has a Chipper and a Cheyenne Stuffed Dog, that wear super capes. The animals were allowed in the surgery with JJ. The surgeons put on masks, bandages etc. so the animals could be with JJ during surgery.

Louise, JJ's caregiver, never asks for anything but appreciates anything. Even if it is just a card for JJ. JJ loves to get mail!!!! He loves to draw and really can draw well! There is a list of needs on the FB page, crayons and things for JJ, medical or special clothing needs. People have asked for that info and then some send WM GC, some little gifts and there is a web link for sending message to JJ on FB. I do not have that right now, but it is on Chipper's Friends page....messaging her furless mom and she will give you the link. JJ loves to read his FB page too!

I had made a pledge for the catching the ball and I needed to get that out with a card for JJ. I had to get it out in the mail before the next rain storm hit, which it did not! False weather reporting.

So that is the short story of JJ, Chipper, and Cheyenne. The long version with lots of nice pictures and funny stories of Chipper and Cheyenne is on FB under, Chipper's Friends.

These are the names being used to protect the little boys identity. Chipper explains this on her page. So I have not broken any laws by revealing names, etc.

Okay, back on topic. Thanks for listening. Sorry mods...I was off topic.

Thank you so much for sharing.

Its so ironic that someone like JH could so easily and carelessly take away and destroy so many lives, and then we hear of little JJ who is battling and fighting a great war to try to save his single life.

Prayers for him and his family that he wins the battle.

 

[cujenn81]

I'm from Canada..DP was outlawed back in 1976 which means it's been 49 years ago..So I have no problem with LWOP...But since DP is on the table..I have not problem since it's still on their books..BUT actual chances of coming to fruition is next to 0%..because of appeals and decades of it..and likelihood of having DP verdicts being vacated and become LWOP...

In JH's case..I truly do not want the families to have to endure that roller coaster..BUT I know it will in the end up only inflicting more pain on them!! ...

These are juror's local..and just may render DP..(tho I feel it will never happen)

It's coming down to some states making changes to methods..DP by Firing Squad?? Yikes reminisce of mid 20th century??? Some states are considering hanging again..Oh talk about recalling the OLD DAYZ!!

I know!! A firing squad just seems so scary and barbaric! I can't imagine a state ever bringing back hanging (at least I hope not!) but when you really think about it... a firing squad would probably be quick and painless. The convicted inmate would likely be shot multiple times all at once and die instantly. But getting a shot, going to sleep, and never waking up sounds like a much better option!