GUILTY TX - Patricia Allen arrested after 3 children drown, Irving, July 2015

[T4Tide]

Gracious....not one, not two, but three children drowned??

How do you not notice this?

http://m.wdam.com/wdam/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:qtK4kuc3

"Patricia Allen, 30, was charged with injury to a child after witnesses said she was distracted by her cell phone as her children played at the pool.

The three children who died were 10-year-old August Smith, 9-year-old Treshawn Smith and 11-year-old Anthony Smith."

"They walked up to the pool and saw the mother sitting on the edge of the pool looking outward toward the deeper end area of the pool, and also observed the water to be still and calm, no flapping or splashing or bubbles in the water," Irving police Officer James McLellan said. "At some point the mother stepped out."

 

[tlcya]

how do three children drown and mom not lift a finger per witnesses?

If the witnesses DID witness the drownings while mom was distracted by phone - How do the witnesses notice but do nothing?

If the witnesses did not witness the actual drownings how do they know mom was being inattentive and on her phone at the time the kids drowned?

Not much info makes sense in this article.

 

[T4Tide]

how do three children drown and mom not lift a finger per witnesses?

If the witnesses DID witness the drownings while mom was distracted by phone - How do the witnesses notice but do nothing?

If the witnesses did not witness the actual drownings how do they know mom was being inattentive and on her phone at the time the kids drowned?

Not much info makes sense in this article.

Exactly.....weird situation!

 

[blefuscu]

How do you not notice 3 children drowning? And they could all swim? Something isn't right here.

 

[MsMarple]

Well, if it isn't gobsmacking enough:

The group of community members included neighborhood activists, business owners, religious leaders and other concerned residents who say they are deciding to embrace Allen, rather than turn their backs on her.

The group was able to get the grieving mother out of jail over the weekend by promising to pay her $5,000 bond.
...
So far, efforts from the group resulted in finding a new home for Allen; adopting her family; and paying several months' rent.

The group is also collecting donations toward Allen's legal defense. They are staging a benefit concert at Southwest Center Mall August 2. The team is also picking up donations of teddy bears, toys and clothing for Allen's two surviving children who remain in the care of Child Protective Services.

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/loca...r-accused-irving-mom-patricia-allen/30104647/

Shades of Shanesha Taylor!

 

[ellemo]

How do you not notice 3 children drowning? And they could all swim? Something isn't right here.

First, drowning can be very quiet. It's not noisy at all and all you have to do is be looking the other way to miss it. Kids have drowned in pools when adults are all around.

My guess is the kids all went to the deep end of the pool together and couldn't swim well enough to get out. When you are drowning you can’t scream for help.
‘
My other guess would be that she thought the kids were old enough to swim on their own or that the 11 year old was old enough to watch the other two. Maybe she didn’t realize that the pool was so deep or she though the kids would stay at the shallow end of the pool. I say this because the two younger kids were not in the pool. If she was completely ignoring her kids, all 5 would have been in the pool -- a 6 and a 3 year old would have followed older siblings into the pool if they were unsupervised. So it is likely that she was paying more attention to them.

She showed poor judgement so I think it wise that the younger kids were taken away, at least until they can figure out where they will be safe.

 

[wendybtn]

Kids that age, on average in mainstream America, should know how to swim. From kiddie camps, Boys & Girls clubs, YMCA Day Camps, and many others I am sure I don't all the names of. I want to know what the tox screen shows, if mom gave them something to make them drowsy. That story is just too weird. While it may be the Christian/diversity thing to do to take this woman into the community with love, I want to see a full autopsy. Her other children could be at risk, if they come back to live with her.

 

[bluesneakers]

Kids that age, on average in mainstream America, should know how to swim. From kiddie camps, Boys & Girls clubs, YMCA Day Camps, and many others I am sure I don't all the names of. I want to know what the tox screen shows, if mom gave them something to make them drowsy. That story is just too weird. While it may be the Christian/diversity thing to do to take this woman into the community with love, I want to see a full autopsy. Her other children could be at risk, if they come back to live with her.

While I agree with you knowing how to swim is a skill everyone should have, the truth is not everyone has the opportunity to learn it.

This is setting off all my alarm bells though, because I am so strict about water safety and children playing in or near pool, to me if she couldn't swim she shouldn't have been the only one supervising. Imo there is no "Could swim well enough to be in the water." You can either swim or you can't.

I wish we could get a more accurate description of what happened.

 

[flourish]

Kids that age, on average in mainstream America, should know how to swim. From kiddie camps, Boys & Girls clubs, YMCA Day Camps, and many others I am sure I don't all the names of. I want to know what the tox screen shows, if mom gave them something to make them drowsy. That story is just too weird. While it may be the Christian/diversity thing to do to take this woman into the community with love, I want to see a full autopsy. Her other children could be at risk, if they come back to live with her.

I'm the youngest of seven children. I'm the only one who doesn't know how to swim (or ride a bike). However, they tried. I had swim lesson after lesson, but hate getting my face wet or getting water in my ears and nose so much that I failed the little "guppy" class so many times it became ridiculous and my mom let me stop.

But that was unusual. And my mom didn't let me go in water without my dad and knew I wasn't going past the three feet deep area willingly.

Last summer, my six year old soon-to-be stepson wanted to go to the complex pool every single day at least once. I made sure another adult was always around!

Anyway...


This case is so awful! I ditto on the how could this happen?
This is definitely one to watch.


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[al66pine]

I'm the youngest of seven children. I'm the only one who doesn't know how to swim (or ride a bike)... I had swim lesson after lesson ....

sbm
flourish -
Sorry you encountered such difficulties w swimming & biking in your childhood.

Yes, it would be terrific if every person on the planet could swim like Michael Phelps and be Red Cross lifeguard-certified but not swimming is nothing to be embarrassed about. No landlubber shaming.

The most important thing is that you recognize that a six y/o you're caring for needs to have adult swimmer close-by and are following other water safety rules.

Wonderful that you are already stepping up in caring for soon-to-be stepson. Best wishes.

 

[flourish]

sbm
flourish -
Sorry you encountered such difficulties w swimming & biking in your childhood.

Yes, it would be terrific if every person on the planet could swim like Michael Phelps and be Red Cross lifeguard-certified but not swimming is nothing to be embarrassed about. No landlubber shaming.

The most important thing is that you recognize that a six y/o you're caring for needs to have adult swimmer close-by and are following other water safety rules.

Wonderful that you are already stepping up in caring for soon-to-be stepson. Best wishes.

Aww thanks! I'm proud to announce little man passed swim lessons ar day camp yesterday! Still not taking him to the pool alone!

I met and fell in love with the little one before the daddy version. Imagine my pleasant surprise to find such an amazing team to join! My boyfriend is trying to convince me to camp on a floathouse! I have to have the same life jacket rule as the kids! It's a little humiliating lol!

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[al66pine]

From Watching Children Around Water http://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m4240228_ItOnlyTakesaMoment.pdf

- "Maintain constant supervision of children whenever around water.
- Avoid distractions when supervising children around water." [Isn't this actually a restatement of first rule?]
"Have children or inexperienced swimmers wear a U.S. Coast Guard-approved life jacket around water, but do not rely on life jackets alone—always maintain constant supervision!"

Was Ms Allen following any of ^these rules^? IDK.

For parents who care about their children, are ^these rules^ too hard to understand? To follow?

From http://www.redcross.org/prepare/disaster/water-safety (no date)
Drownings in U.S
"Drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury-related death for children ages 1 to 14 years.
Drowning usually happens quickly and silently—many children who drown in home pools were out of sight for less than 5 minutes and in the care of one or both parents at the time.*
*Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention"

 

[ellemo]

From Watching Children Around Water http://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m4240228_ItOnlyTakesaMoment.pdf

- "Maintain constant supervision of children whenever around water.
- Avoid distractions when supervising children around water." [Isn't this actually a restatement of first rule?]
"Have children or inexperienced swimmers wear a U.S. Coast Guard-approved life jacket around water, but do not rely on life jackets alone—always maintain constant supervision!"

Was Ms Allen following any of ^these rules^? IDK.

For parents who care about their children, are ^these rules^ too hard to understand? To follow?

Clearly, this woman was negligent and her surviving children are probably safer somewhere else, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she didn't care. I know many people with poor parenting skills who think their kids can do things that are age inappropriate -- like have an 11 year old in charge of the younger siblings at pool. Lots and lots of people don't "get" how dangerous pools can be. Kids have drowned in pools when adults are right there next to them but not paying attention. This is the biggest reason why I joined a pool club and didn't have my own pool. I need a life guard to also be watching my kid. (thought now she is on the swim team and would be more likely to save me from drowning than vice versa)

I am willing to say that she was uneducated, possibly stupid and definitely negligent but I am not willing to say that she didn't care. Right now all we know is that a tragedy occurred.

 

[pukasonqo2]

by law in oz swimming pools must be fenced and children must be supervised by adults, the locks are usually too high for a toddler to open the gate but every summer we have children drowning, one of the cases i remember a child (2) was impatiently waiting for her mum who was busy with a newborn (nappy changing) and managed to open the living room's sliding door, drag a chair, open the pool gate and drowned in a very short time, mum came out to take the children to the pool assuming the two year old would be where she safely left her (living room) only to find the little girl was in the pool and had already drowned
i would not call her negligent
yes, the woman in this story was distracted but i would not pass judgement in her love for her children, it takes less than a minute for a child to run into traffic, fall into a pool and the consequences last a lifetime

 

[al66pine]

Clearly, this woman was negligent and her surviving children are probably safer somewhere else, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she didn't care. I know many people with poor parenting skills who think their kids can do things that are age inappropriate -- like have an 11 year old in charge of the younger siblings at pool. Lots and lots of people don't "get" how dangerous pools can be. Kids have drowned in pools when adults are right there next to them but not paying attention. This is the biggest reason why I joined a pool club and didn't have my own pool. I need a life guard to also be watching my kid. (thought now she is on the swim team and would be more likely to save me from drowning than vice versa)
I am willing to say that she was uneducated, possibly stupid and definitely negligent but I am not willing to say that she didn't care. Right now all we know is that a tragedy occurred.

bbm I appreciate your thoughtful response and am glad you seriously considered safety issues before allowing your child to swim. Good parenting. In writing, I did not realize my post implied she did not care about her kids; I meant to focus on whether she followed the couple basic water safety rules.

Age inappropriate? Is there any age at which a non-swimmer or inexperienced swimmer should be in water deeper than his head with no other adult swimmer around, willing & able to render aid? Does a 20 y/o, 30 y/o, 40 y/o non-swimmer belong in swimming pool area w water above his head, without a PFD (personal flotation device) or a certified lifeguard on duty, or at very least, an adult swimmer willing & able to render aid? Not an age issue, jmo. That's what I understood happened but could be wrong. Seems other ppl here read the events differently.

IME growing up, water safety rules were observed, just as faithfully as buckling seatbelt before car key turned in ignition.
Seems somewhere along the line (30 y/o?), she wd have read, seen, heard basic water safety rules. Maybe not.

I did a quickie search for updates but did not see any. ellemo, thx agn for your post. RIP little ones.

JM2cts , could be all wrong.

 

[wendybtn]

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20937613,00.html

According to what I just read in this article, it sounds to me like She did indeed mean to hurt her children. She told LE that neither she nor any of the 3 children could swim. Then she said they could float and tread water. That means 3 kids who could swim all drowned at the same time. I do not buy it. IMO

 

[T4Tide]

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20937613,00.html

According to what I just read in this article, it sounds to me like She did indeed mean to hurt her children. She told LE that neither she nor any of the 3 children could swim. Then she said they could float and tread water. That means 3 kids who could swim all drowned at the same time. I do not buy it. IMO

That article sums up what I've been thinking since the get go:


"The sad fact is that at the moment of these drownings… there was no one else there at the time," McLellan says. He adds that the changing story is a concern to police.*

"If they all could swim, then how did three children die simultaneously?" he says. "The rarity of that is beyond trying to explain."*

 

[ellemo]

That article sums up what I've been thinking since the get go:


"The sad fact is that at the moment of these drownings… there was no one else there at the time," McLellan says. He adds that the changing story is a concern to police.*

"If they all could swim, then how did three children die simultaneously?" he says. "The rarity of that is beyond trying to explain."*

It's possible that the older ones may have drowned trying to save the youngerst. It may be rare but multiple drownings happen more than you think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Ramada_Hotel_drownings On April 7, 1993 three teenage boys died by drowning in a swimming pool at a Ramada Rolling Green Hotel in Andover, Massachusetts.

Boy Dies Trying to Save Drowning Sister in Texas Pool Accident http://www.swimmingpoolsafetynews.c...-save-drowning-sister-in-texas-pool-accident/


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ndma-couldn-swim-dived-save-article-1.1050263
3-year-old girl drowns alongside grandma who couldn't swim but dived in to save her

I also found this tidbit on CDC website
"the fatal unintentional drowning rate for African Americans was significantly higher than that of whites across all ages.2 The disparity is widest among children 5-14 years old. The fatal drowning rate of African American children ages 5 to 14 is almost three times that of white children in the same age range.2 The disparity is most pronounced in swimming pools; African American children 5-19 drown in swimming pools at rates 5.5 times higher than those of whites. " http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

 

[bluesneakers]

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20937613,00.html

According to what I just read in this article, it sounds to me like She did indeed mean to hurt her children. She told LE that neither she nor any of the 3 children could swim. Then she said they could float and tread water. That means 3 kids who could swim all drowned at the same time. I do not buy it. IMO

:furious:

They should NOT have been in that pool.

 

[Oblio]

:furious:

They should NOT have been in that pool.

I agree.

I'm a lousy swimmer. Really, when it comes down to it, I can't. I do take my kids swimming in still water, so long as it's shallow or they are wearing flotation vests. I'm not confident I would be able to save them if need be, otherwise.

I totally get the floating thing, though. I float, and I do so quite reliably. I have no fear for myself in a lake, pond, or pool.