Related Issues and Food for Thought

[SnooperDuper]

Well, incidentally, it is exactly 1/2 a year to DM's trial for the murder of TB today. 4-5 months after that, they will throw away the key to his jail cell.

 

[swedie]

Do you have a link for the statistics on that? We have yet to find out who ordered the incinerator much more info is needed to put to a jury.imo




It is a fact that we do not know the status of the investigation but we do know that DM has not been charged, another fact.

He lived with his son, his son is the most likely to have found him, as would have been the case in any family home.




Im sure the truth will be revealed in due course at trial.




That goes without saying.

I dont believe LB last calls were to DM. Also all but one appeared to be unanswered judging by the bill.imo

Such evidence can often exonerate an accused. Witnesses for the accused and other evidence may come to light.



Yes OK we will, and on whether or not there is lots to go on.

BBM - How is this a fact? DM might have been charged and we just haven't heard about it yet.
UBM - Don't hold your breathe in this case.

So here we are more than two years after TB's murder, the investigation has been completed or very near completion (in order for the AG to make her ruling), DM and MS are still sitting in jail, no bail, awaiting trial because the evidence LE have against them is very overwhelming. There is no mistaking who the real murderers are.

I wish to applaud the three police departments and all the special task force teams for doing such a fantastic job investigating from the very beginning of TB's disappearance. From collecting the extensive amount of evidence against DM, to tracking down TB's murderers in a timely manner, to turning over every stone to make certain no stone was left unturned, for making certain the proper search warrants were obtained, that numerous tips were followed up on, etc., all in the name of justice. I would also like to applaud DM for leaving the nicely laid out trail of evidence in his wake which allowed LE to solve TB's case faster and easier then many cases. Thanks to LE, there are also two more murder cases solved; WM's and LB's. But once again, thanks to DM for carelessly providing the evidence in order for LE to find and track the murderer(s). MOO.

 

[Kamille]

Do you have a link for the statistics on that? We have yet to find out who ordered the incinerator much more info is needed to put to a jury.imo

No link, just years of following true crime. You're welcome to research the statistics if you feel that is not sufficient though. I don't count that as a fact however, just that it's not suspicious or unusual for a killer to have evidence and even remains on property owned by them. What is unusual is for someone to set up someone else so spectacularly as has been suggested in this case and I don't believe I've ever heard of a case like that.

The incinerator was purchased by and for Millard Air. At the time, DM was the CEO. It was found on his personal property with the burned remains of TB in it. A man whom he called on a burner phone and went on a test drive with and who was never seen alive again after pulling out of his driveway with DM at the wheel. Doesn't matter who ordered it. It's where it was found and what was in it that counts.


It is a fact that we do not know the status of the investigation but we do know that DM has not been charged, another fact.

There is a publication ban and there have been no preliminary hearings. We do not know what else DM may yet be charged with, if anything. As far as we know no one has been charged but it is still a fact that the HD and trailer was stolen and that it was found in DM's hangar. I agree with another poster (Snooper I believe) who stated that it's better for the prosecution to use the possible evidence of other stolen vehicles found in the hangar to bolster the motive for the TB case than to start breaking down charges and risk having that info be deemed inadmissable as it is a separate case. I guess we'll have to see what makes it in as evidence.

He lived with his son, his son is the most likely to have found him, as would have been the case in any family home.

Im sure the truth will be revealed in due course at trial.

I'm sure it will. In the meantime, the fact is that LE believe they have enough evidence to charge him with the murder of his father. The only fact we've seen that may relate to that case is the arrest of 3 men for trafficking a gun to DM. At present, we don't really have any facts regarding the evidence LE has in that case though.

That goes without saying.

Then I don't understand why the fact that DM has not been convicted of anything yet keeps coming up as somehow relevent on a forum in which we pretty much discuss evidence on cases prior to and during trial when there are only charges against the suspects and we very rarely discuss them after conviction.

I dont believe LB last calls were to DM. Also all but one appeared to be unanswered judging by the bill.imo

Her final phone bill is pretty direct evidence. Her final calls were to DM according to that bill.

Such evidence can often exonerate an accused. Witnesses for the accused and other evidence may come to light.

Who do you suppose will be presenting evidence to "exonerate" DM and for which murder?

Yes OK we will, and on whether or not there is lots to go on.

I didn't even touch on the fact that DM's girlfriend has also been charged as an accessory after the fact in helping him to avoid arrest in some way. Just another fact pointing to DM and another trial we'll have to wait for.

MOO

 

[swedie]

What troubled me for the longest time is what we heard in the MSM about LB's death and how her parents were given no information by LE other then to say LB was deceased. No word as to whether her body had been recovered, ashes found, belongings of hers found, nadda nothing. LB's mom was in denial at the time and had hope LB would come home to her. Her uncle Ryan also had some denial issues going on as well.

I have often wondered if LB's family or SL have pushed LE for answers as to what happened to Laura. I would hope by, after two years of LE knowing LB is deceased, LE were able to give them something definite to go on. If not LB's loved ones could perhaps still be living in denial with unrealistic hopes and when the truth does come out in court, it could have devastating effects of them. Denial is not always a healthy thing. It can really cause a lot of emotional and physical damage to someone's well being. MOO.

Denial: When it helps, when it hurts
denial might prevent you or your loved one from getting help, such as treatment or counseling, or dealing with problems that can spiral out of control — all with potentially devastating long-term consequences.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926?pg=2

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry Matou, I couldn't find any cases for your assignment.

Here's a few for yours Tamarind.

Right now we have Douglas Garland, Dellen Millard and Mark Smich going to trial for no body murder charges. In the past....

There’s R vs. Pritchard, a decision affirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada. It’s a 2007 decision from the British Columbia Court of Appeal which involved a man convicted of first-degree murder despite the fact that the victim’s body has never been found.

There’s R vs. Ratte, another B.C. case where a husband was convicted of second-degree murder despite the fact his wife’s body was never found. The Supreme Court dismissed the application for leave to appeal.

There’s R vs. Wristen, a 1999 Ontario case where another husband was convicted of second-degree murder though the body of his wife has never been found; that was upheld by the court of appeal.

https://damianpenny.wordpress.com/2014/07/15/murder-without-a-body/

There's probably more but I was never very good at homework.

I just remembered the recent case of serial killer, Cody Legebokoff, convicted of 4 murders, one of whom was Natasha Montgomery whose body was never found.

 

[swedie]

I just remembered the recent case of serial killer, Cody Legebokoff, convicted of 4 murders, one of whom was Natasha Montgomery whose body was never found.

Then there is the fairly recent case of JP who eventually pled guilty. IMO I don't think her body ended up where LE believed it did. I believe he got rid of her somewhere else where she will never be found so that LE couldn't get him on first or second. Manslaughter is a shorter sentence. Here's hoping JP is in GP and someone takes care of this . JMHO.

“It would be uncommon for the police to lay a first-degree murder charge where they didn’t think there was good evidence to justify it,” he said. “But reasonable and probable grounds a crime has been committed” — the standard for laying charges — “is a different standard than what needs to be met in court.”

Kitchener’s James Parise, who was initially charged with second-degree murder, plead guilty in February to manslaughter in the beating death of Catherine Todd. It’s believed her body was dumped at a landfill site in Waterloo. A 50-day search turned up nothing.
Without a body, prosecutors could not demonstrate the extent of Todd’s injuries and couldn’t prove a murder charge in the absence of other evidence, Brown said.
A murder charge could be downgraded at trial if no body is discovered, he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._it_be_firstdegree_murder_without_a_body.html

 

[swedie]

Kevin Bryan, a retired detective who worked with the York Regional Police forensic unit for 16 years, believes the family would be told if her body had been found, but said police would have other evidence of her death.
“Now they’ve laid a murder charge which means they do have some evidence that she’s dead. . . . What that is, I don’t know and they’re not going to tell us that either,” said Bryan.
“They don’t go out and lay the charge in a situation like this without extensive consultation with the prosecutions office.”
Criminal Attorney Daniel Brown suggested police may be keeping information secret to assist in their investigation and prosecution.
“It could be an important part of the investigation or they want to ensure they haven’t tainted any witnesses, or perhaps they have a statement from an accused,” said Brown.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...a_babcocks_body_not_recovered_in_ontario.html

 

[swedie]

Speaking of CN, this is another very intriguing write up IMO. Hmm a "good deal" of boxes and bags... What could those "good deal" of boxes and bags possibly contain? Certainly LE wouldn't have helped her pack any clothing, as she would have been issued those special institution threads. Would DM be so stupid as to give CN evidence to hold onto? Would she have been stupid enough to keep or take evidence? And of all places, in her parent's house? I could see LE taking her computer/laptop/notepad, a cell phone, some clothing maybe, maybe shoes/boots...but what would constitute a "good deal" of boxes and bags. Sounds like LE gathered quite a bit of possible evidence from the Nougda's house. MOO.

Hope she's taking full advantage of her restricted freedom because it may not be much longer before she finds herself in prison for many years. Wonder where she will spend her time if sentenced? Kitchener possibly with TLM...ouch. She will be one lucky blessed ducky if she's found not guilty or given a reduced, light, sentence for her participation in assisting DM. Personally I think regardless, she should be used as an example for other women who consider assisting their guys or anyone else trying to escape justice, especially in serious cases such as murder. JMHO.

CN made a statement to LE but as to whether she cooperated or not is another story. I suspect even if she did cooperate and her involvement was serious enough, LE would still arrest her. Oh and of course because this case hasn't been tried in court yey, LE and MSM have to cover their hineys, always having to use that special word "allege". MOO.

Millard’s girlfriend, Christina Noudga, 21, has been charged as an accessory to murder after the fact. Noudga is accused of helping him “escape” after Bosma’s murder, police said.

Police allege Noudga knew Millard had killed Bosma and assisted in his “escape” last May 9, three days after Bosma disappeared, said Crown Attorney Tony Leitch.

Leitch said Noudga made a statement to police after she was arrested Thursday, but could not say whether she is being co-operative. “We don’t usually arrest co-operating witnesses,” Leitch said.

At Noudga’s family home in Etobicoke Thursday, neighbour Mark Majchrowski said he saw officers removing a “good deal” of boxes and bags.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...e_she_was_reported_missing_police_allege.html

 

[swedie]

Just a couple more Canadian cases where murder charges were laid without bodies being found first. HTH. I'm certain there are many more. MOO.

June 8, 2009 Family says goodbye at memorial for Tori Stafford
Two Woodstock residents - a man, 28, and a woman, 18 - are charged with kidnapping and first-degree murder in the disappearance of the girl, whose body has not been found.

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2009/06/08/family-says-goodbye-at-memorial-for-tori-stafford-15

March 10, 2014Charges laid in 2008 Agassisz Murder Chilliwack resident Michael Scullion was out for drinks with friends when he vanished in April 2008. Police believed he met foul play even though his body was never found.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/03/10/charges-laid-in-2008-agassiz-murder/

April 6, 2015 Murder charges laid in disappearance of Calgary father Nicholas Lush

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...rder-in-death-of-nicholas-lush-body-not-found

 

[matou]

What about the original assignment? How many charges of murder (1st degree or other) were dropped because the "victim" turned up alive?

Thanks to all who posted evidence of first degree murder charges in the absence of a body: you get A+

 

[Tamarind]

My point was not that he was not a killer, it was that he admitted to being there and assisting. He himself put himself at the scene and admitted involvement. My point was that there is usually evidence that sways a jury one way or the other and an admission usually helps them decide. JMO

Hi sillybilly, I was just wondering if this post should have gone to the food for thought thread to tie in with the other Cody L posts.?