PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[J. J. in Phila]

Kind of makes you wonder if he had to be somewhere at a certain time.

Yes, and that would fit with the map.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't think we can rule anything out at this point.

In Dec. 2003, after inexplicably leaving hastily, an Assistant US Attorney's body is found 52 miles from Harrisburg, PA.
16 months later, after inexplicably leaving hastily*, a District Attorney goes missing. His car is found 60 miles from Harrisburg, PA.
Both cases have plenty examples of possible decoys and misdirection.
Authorities in both cases, without any evidence whatsoever, and sometimes with evidence to the contrary, have tried to pass these off as voluntary actions (suicide in one case, walkaway or suicide in the other).
Both cases - despite being pushed as "voluntary" actions - are still being investigated, and access to materials has been repeatedly denied.

*I say Gricar left "hastily", because I feel if he wasn't in a hurry, he would have stuck around for another half hour to let the dogs out.

I wouldn't say "hasty", because of the map. The MO is still different. Here is a list I made of the differences:

A. Mr. Gricar left from home; Mr. Luna left from the office.
B. Mr. Gricar left early to mid morning; Mr. Luna left after 11:30 PM.
C. Mr. Gricar drove about 56 miles, on a relatively direct path; Mr. Luna drove a minimum of 190 miles on a very indirect path.
D. Mr. Gricar took his cell phone; Mr. Luna left his behind in the office.
E. Mr. Gricar took the day off; Mr. Luna was suppose to fax a plea agreement that night, and was expected in court the next day.
F. Mr. Gricar phoned his girlfriend from the road; Mr. Luna had no contact with his wife or family members after he left.
G. The Mini Cooper, the car Mr. Gricar was driving, was found in a fairly densely populated area; Mr. Luna’s car was found in a rural area.
H. The Mini showed no evidence of a crime; Mr. Luna’s car had a large amount of blood.
I. The Mini was parked, engine off; Mr. Luna’s care was in a ditch, with the engine running.
J. Mr. Luna’s body was found; there was no effort to hide it. Mr. Gricar’s body was never found.
It should be obvious that the modus operandi (I do like Latin) of both deaths was quite different.

 

[wijg]

Not to get off the current topic, but I finally purchased the episode of "Disappeared" on Amazon... and I'm watching it now... and I'll just leave this here... I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it MissJ

From the episode of "Disappeared"... just after the 19 minute mark.

"Two days later his car was found about 40 miles from where he live. And his body ended up turning up in the river there in Dayton, OH a few days after that."

Direct quotes from Tony Gricar, regarding his father Roy.

Anyway... now that that's settled.. and JJ has been further discredited... who else wants to keep discussing Luna? Because I for one am intrigued by the possibility of some sort of connection.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Not to get off the current topic, but I finally purchased the episode of "Disappeared" on Amazon... and I'm watching it now... and I'll just leave this here... I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it MissJ

From the episode of "Disappeared"... just after the 19 minute mark.



Direct quotes from Tony Gricar, regarding his father Roy.

Anyway... now that that's settled.. and JJ has been further discredited... who else wants to keep discussing Luna? Because I for one am intrigued by the possibility of some sort of connection.

There is a Luna thread.

Well, if it was Dayton, then there would not be a match with Lewisburg.

 

[hotdog4]

This case is totally intriguing, I think that there is something to the Luna angle.

 

[MissJ]

Not to get off the current topic, but I finally purchased the episode of "Disappeared" on Amazon... and I'm watching it now... and I'll just leave this here... I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it MissJ

From the episode of "Disappeared"... just after the 19 minute mark.



Direct quotes from Tony Gricar, regarding his father Roy.

Anyway... now that that's settled.. and JJ has been further discredited... who else wants to keep discussing Luna? Because I for one am intrigued by the possibility of some sort of connection.

Thanks! I knew we were right. I would like to hear more about Luna.

 

[MissJ]

Why not discuss the similarities? I for one want to know.
Interesting how a case can be botched by LE who immediately assume that someone left willingly when they really didn't.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Why not discuss the similarities? I for one want to know.
Interesting how a case can be botched by LE who immediately assume that someone left willingly when they really didn't.

The similarities are that both did the same type of work. They had no cases in common and covered different non-overlapping jurisdictions. They were both baseball fans (of different teams). They were both male and Christian, at least nominally, though of different denominations. Luna may have been a more regular churchgoer; RFG was described is someone who attended mass on Christmas.

Even looking at both of their financial situations, education, and demographics, there are no similarities.

I would again point out that the is a thread on Luna. I would also point out that the person originally trying to make the connection, BK, apparently no longer does.

 

[SuperSmith]

I wouldn't say "hasty", because of the map. The MO is still different. Here is a list I made of the differences:

A. Mr. Gricar left from home; Mr. Luna left from the office.
B. Mr. Gricar left early to mid morning; Mr. Luna left after 11:30 PM.
C. Mr. Gricar drove about 56 miles, on a relatively direct path; Mr. Luna drove a minimum of 190 miles on a very indirect path.
D. Mr. Gricar took his cell phone; Mr. Luna left his behind in the office.
E. Mr. Gricar took the day off; Mr. Luna was suppose to fax a plea agreement that night, and was expected in court the next day.
F. Mr. Gricar phoned his girlfriend from the road; Mr. Luna had no contact with his wife or family members after he left.
G. The Mini Cooper, the car Mr. Gricar was driving, was found in a fairly densely populated area; Mr. Luna’s car was found in a rural area.
H. The Mini showed no evidence of a crime; Mr. Luna’s car had a large amount of blood.
I. The Mini was parked, engine off; Mr. Luna’s care was in a ditch, with the engine running.
J. Mr. Luna’s body was found; there was no effort to hide it. Mr. Gricar’s body was never found.
It should be obvious that the modus operandi (I do like Latin) of both deaths was quite different.

Well I'm glad you came to terms with Gricar being deceased and not a walkaway.

 

[SuperSmith]

Not to get off the current topic, but I finally purchased the episode of "Disappeared" on Amazon... and I'm watching it now... and I'll just leave this here... I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it MissJ

From the episode of "Disappeared"... just after the 19 minute mark.



Direct quotes from Tony Gricar, regarding his father Roy.

Anyway... now that that's settled.. and JJ has been further discredited... who else wants to keep discussing Luna? Because I for one am intrigued by the possibility of some sort of connection.

The smoke is clearing and the mirrors are cracking.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well I'm glad you came to terms with Gricar being deceased and not a walkaway.

I didn't. I assumed for the list that both would be foul play. I suspect neither was.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The smoke is clearing and the mirrors are cracking.

Yes, there was a claim that the sites were so similar that they had to be related.

It turns out that they were very different. For example, there are six bridges over the Susquehanna north of Lewisburg, at least three are closer to Bellefonte and, like Lewisburg, have the same degree of similarity to the area where Roy committed suicide. Further, we all have had similarly bad luck in finding the exact location of where Roy's car was. That makes it very unlikely that anyone else could, at least that was never there.

Lewisburg, was therefor, not chosen "to make it look like suicide." We go back to the clandestine meeting, if this was foul play.

 

[MissJ]

Yes, there was a claim that the sites were so similar that they had to be related.

It turns out that they were very different. For example, there are six bridges over the Susquehanna north of Lewisburg, at least three are closer to Bellefonte and, like Lewisburg, have the same degree of similarity to the area where Roy committed suicide. Further, we all have had similarly bad luck in finding the exact location of where Roy's car was. That makes it very unlikely that anyone else could, at least that was never there.

Lewisburg, was therefor, not chosen "to make it look like suicide." We go back to the clandestine meeting, if this was foul play.

In your opinion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In your opinion.

Apparently in the experience of any poster that has looked.

It is also interesting to note the Gricar brothers were thinking suicide prior to arriving at Lewisburg.

 

[wijg]

Apparently in the experience of any poster that has looked.

Really? You claim to have seen just about every show made about the Gricar disappearance, right? If that's the case, then either your attention to detail isn't very good, or you willingly ignore certain details that don't fit your theory. I was a couple vodka tonics deep last night and was still able to catch this in passing while watching a show about Gricar:



You are quickly losing credibility.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Really? You claim to have seen just about every show made about the Gricar disappearance, right? If that's the case, then either your attention to detail isn't very good, or you willingly ignore certain details that don't fit your theory. I was a couple vodka tonics deep last night and was still able to catch this in passing while watching a show about Gricar:

View attachment 78752

You are quickly losing credibility.

Yet that has not shown up for ten years. BTW, do you have a link. This would involve a presumed killer taking newspaper clippings from an out of town newspaper 9 years before.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Two things quite interesting about the article.

First, I Googled "Veteran's Park" in Dayton. It took me more than a mile north of the Stewart Street. So that article, even if it was known, would not have helped someone unfamiliar with the site of Roy's Suicide.

Second, and perhaps most important, the Stewart Street Bridge was demolished in 2008; it had been there since 1911. Somebody videotaped the demolition and it is here: [video=youtube;uRCGDVgmhH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCGDVgmhH4[/video]

Here is the Lewisburg Bridge: https://picasaweb.google.com/LookingforRay/Lewisburg73009#5391571638914299186

Notice one major difference that stand out between the Stewart Street and Lewisburg bridges.

The Stewart Street bridge is constructed with arches; there is a noticeable curve under the supports. The Lewisburg bridge has straight supports, post and lentil, I think they are called.

Yes, the credibility of the claim that these two sites are similar (beyond both being bridges across rivers) and that someone not familiar with the site could discover what it looked like has lost all credibility.

 

[MissJ]

Sites being similar.........have you been to the park in Dayton? Cause someone who has would know if they were. The bridges do not have to be exactly alike for the site to be similar.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Sites being similar.........have you been to the park in Dayton? Cause someone who has would know if they were. The bridges do not have to be exactly alike for the site to be similar.

Well, it would involve someone who was actually at the site. Now, that would limit this to very few people, generally with the last name "Gricar."

Suppose that someone knew that Roy had committed suicide in 1996. Now a few people that were close to RFG did know that, and did know that he drowned. EG, BG, and probably his staff at the time and some people around the Courthouse. That could have been known by a murderer, that was from Centre County, or could have been found out in conversation.

Now, supposedly the sites are very similar, but that is not apparent from looking at photos of the sites. So the murderer looks at the photos, online presumably, and sees two bridges that, even at a glance, are noticeably different. He/she suddenly decides they are similar? That does not fit.

Now, one of the Gricars that could see the supposed similarity had the first name Ray. So, that could point to suicide. I'm not quite willing to suggest that any other was responsible for RFG's death.

There is also the possibility, much more likely, that Lewisburg would have been chosen for another reason than, to "make it look like suicide," especially if it was murder.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I apologize for the true O/T on this thread, but I think several of you here may have followed this other case:

What was the name of the lady who was found in the bathtub a few years ago, in PA, who was the girlfriend(? Maybe?) of some prominent lawyer or ? I wanted to look up her thread here at WS and can't remember her name or whether it happened in Pittsburgh or ? But I think/hope some of you will remember? Thanks! Just wondered what ever was found out, if anything.