ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

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thanks carbuff. ok I give up. I'm down a rabbit hole and I can't get out. help.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/ifwis/fishingplanner/access/index.html

http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/scnf/recreation/fishing/?recid=76008&actid=43

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/?getPage=110

in the last link, only the areas listed in white currently have open seasons. now maybe the kunz group were just planning on casting or fly fishing off the side of a stream, which is probably fine, fun, unregulated and ignored. but I cannot make a connection with their campsite and any decent fishing zone in that 'neck of the woods'.

This site lists lake and pond fishing in the reservoir: http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea?recid=76098

I don't think that necessarily means the stream isn't open for fishing, though. It might just mean it's not very good fishing.
 
At about 1:23 on the video look at the photo AND what is showing on the TV in the background..very spooky foreshadowing..jmo

Could you please tell me which video you're referring to? When I clicked on a link for a tribute video I got the message that it was not available. Unless it's because I'm on my iPad.
Thank you.
 
I wonder how far back toward town they searched that bumpy road. I also wonder how far out on either side they searched it. After all, the baby could have taken off down the road or veered off and his scent may have been obliterated by so many vehicles coming up for the search.
 
We went camping last weekend along the Salmon River (near Riggins which is nowhere near Leadore, etc.) and there were fire restrictions in place - absolutely no fire allowed, even in designated fire pits. It made me wonder about DK's statement about leaving Deorr with grandpa by the campfire... I wonder if there were fire restrictions there as well - and most people don't build a fire right away, especially in the afternoon. Just thought it was strange. Not sure that it means anything, though.
 
Welcome, TeaTime. Very nice first post. Glad you've joined the discussion.


:welcome5:
 
Could you please tell me which video you're referring to? When I clicked on a link for a tribute video I got the message that it was not available. Unless it's because I'm on my iPad.
Thank you.

Good idea to request it as a link again, I can't find either.
 
blefuscu - thank you for the welcome. Deductive reasoning usually works. LE has eliminated many theoretical possibilities with the extensive search. At least one human being is responsible for the child's disappearance. Although unlikely, it is possible that GGP and IR were sitting in chairs, their panoramic view partially blocked by the parked truck, or their backs to the truck and someone moved in and carried the child away. Other than that scenario, someone in the group of 4 knows what happened.
 
But on the other hand, for some families, building a campfire is the first thing they do. I know I like to do it that way.

But that's a good point about the fire restrictions.
 
In the last thread, someone made a good point. I'm on my phone so it's difficult for me to find and quote but the post asked why didn't the sheriff used the word witnesses instead of POIs if he just wanted to emphasis the parents and friends were at the campsite? POI has such a negative connotation, the comments under the KTSB article were all accusing the parents of killing their son. It just seems like a complete unnecessary phrase to use if you think the parents and friend are completely uninvolved...as the other poster said, witnesses would be more appropriate and wouldn't ruin their reputations.

Being "old school" and not much into today's jargon with the politically correct crowds, I understood what the sheriff was saying and why, yet; I can see how most would not get it too. Most aren't that old! :)
 
blefuscu - thank you for the welcome. Deductive reasoning usually works. LE has eliminated many theoretical possibilities with the extensive search. At least one human being is responsible for the child's disappearance. Although unlikely, it is possible that GGP and IR were sitting in chairs, their panoramic view partially blocked by the parked truck, or their backs to the truck and someone moved in and carried the child away. Other than that scenario, someone in the group of 4 knows what happened.

Then you believe in coincidence? A theory that simple REQUIRES them, don't you agree?

Btw, welcome!
 
sbm

So, that only leaves 3 possibilities: 1) he was never there; 2) he was carried away; and, 3) he was driven away.

Dad tells the story of the trip to the store. I believe him. Why? Because the store would have at least one witness, the clerk, and is too easy to corroborate.

If the child was never there, then there is no reason for the store story.

Hi! Welcome. Great post.

Imo, if he was there they would still pick up a scent if he was carried away or driven away.

Another possibility for the store visit - would be to lead people to believe he was there, if he really wasn't.

I'm not saying this is what I think happened, I am just poking holes in theories.
 
can someone tell me exactly where they were among the rivers up there...I'm getting a headache on mapquest...were they near the salmon river? upper or lower?
TIA.

It's on a stream that joins several others at the Lemhi River, which flows into the Salmon River.

Here are some maps to show the flow of the creek into the river. I followed it along on Google maps. The Timber Creek, flows into Big Timber Creek, which flows into the Lemhi River and onto the Salmon River. The points on this map show the Campground, where the Creek meets the Lemhi River and where the Lemhi River turns into the Salmon River. It's roughly 60 miles from the Creek to the Salmon.
Timber Creek to Salmon River.PNG
Here is the Google Maps version. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Tim...7!1m3!2m2!1d-113.842745!2d45.161084!3e0?hl=en

Here is a map of the major rivers in Idaho, taken from this site: http://geology.com/lakes-rivers-water/idaho.shtml The red arrow shows roughly where Big Timber Creek flows into the Lemhi River.
Idaho River Map.PNG
 
Another poster here linked to some helpful photos of the Stage Stop store in Leadore (sorry, can't remember who it was). I found the blog that went with these photos and found it to be an interesting read about the area:

http://livingthejuneauadventure.blogspot.com/2015/04/leadore-and-more-part-2.html

I agree. I looked at that blog some time ago. Great pictures. Small town. It gave me a good idea of what the Stage Stop looked like, as well as some of the rest of the area.
 
My first post here but I have read all the threads on this case. I can not get passed the fact that the scent dogs did not follow a trail of any kind leaving the camp site. His scent would have been very fresh and the dogs would have picked up on it immediately if it was there. They didn't. This tells me the child did not wander away on his own and was not dragged away by an animal. He wasn't scooped up by a bird either.

He is not in the creek. It was searched and he is not there. It is narrow, shallow and full of debris, he did not float away. No scent led to the reservoir and he is not there, it was searched. The cremains are only interesting in that the cadaver dogs picked up a false positive at the reservoir. The divers didn't stop searching the reservoir because of cremains.

So, that only leaves 3 possibilities: 1) he was never there; 2) he was carried away; and, 3) he was driven away.

Dad tells the story of the trip to the store. I believe him. Why? Because the store would have at least one witness, the clerk, and is too easy to corroborate. I do not believe that the parents dropped the baby off, alone, on the side of the road back to camp or killed him and dumped him before returning to camp. If the child was never there, then there is no reason for the store story. The baby was there.

Therefore, this child was taken away by a human being or beings while all the adults were pre-occupied with other things. I pray that he is alive but it is unlikely. I pray that the parents and family members are being loved and comforted by their community. They are living a nightmare from which they will never awaken.

Welcome TeaTime! :welcome: Excellent first post. Very logical and I agree with your assessment.
 
Sorry for my terrible map, I am on my phone. The pink circle is where we think they we're camping. The pink arrows show the direction they travelled into the camp. (To get out, I believe you have to go back out the way you came.) The yellow shows the flow of the creek.

907d3e60260a698beebac07fdb2d4365.jpg


Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
 
Going off of my map, you can see how the road in and out of the area splits into 3 roads. If they were along the center road, someone could have driven up either of the other two roads and taken him. Especially the regular 172 rd. If little DeOrr went in the direction of his parents, he could have come out of the woods right at the 172, where someone could have snatched him. But then again, I would think they would find his scent through there.


(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-5&p=11969178#post11969178)
 
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