ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

[Jules71]

I wonder how far back toward town they searched that bumpy road. I also wonder how far out on either side they searched it. After all, the baby could have taken off down the road or veered off and his scent may have been obliterated by so many vehicles coming up for the search.

I would love to know this as well! (Maybe add to list of questions.) I really wish the entire road from the store in Leadore to the reservoir could be searched. It's less than 10 miles I believe.

 

[teeandcee]

I hate that pic of him on the first page. He's so cute with his little bow legs and messy mouth. It breaks my heart each time I see it. That's why I hate it, it's heartbreaking, I mean.

 

[needtoknow]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I checked the weather in Leadore for that day. The temp was 85 degrees. I'm not saying it means anything, but pretty warm to have a jacket on.
.http://www.wundermap.net/personal-w...storyTable#history/s20150610/e20150710/mmonth

 

[ClaireNC]

Going off of my map, you can see how the road in and out of the area splits into 3 roads. If they were along the center road, someone could have driven up either of the other two roads and taken him. Especially the regular 172 rd. If little DeOrr went in the direction of his parents, he could have come out of the woods right at the 172, where someone could have snatched him. But then again, I would think they would find his scent through there.


(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-5&p=11969178#post11969178)

It is possible, but the woods look like they aren't very thick so I think somebody would have seen a vehicle come in or out if they were in the campground. Here is a tilted version of the map. I believe that they were camped where the truck and camper is in this image. It looks like the point where the three roads meet is in view from the campsite.



https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ti...m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I checked the weather in Leadore for that day. The temp was 85 degrees. I'm not saying it means anything, but pretty warm to have a jacket on.
.http://www.wundermap.net/personal-w...storyTable#history/s20150610/e20150710/mmonth

Thanks! I had wondered about that very thing and glad you looked it up. I could see in the evening where it may cool down near/after sunset, but this was in the mid-afternoon July heat. Even for ID, summer is summer unless there is a low front or rain to cool things off. He was dressed for nighttime not fun in the sun! Interesting.

 

[rkf]

What do you think happened?

This is with no disrespect to anyone. But having read through the end of the last thread and into this one, I think some people are staring so hard at nothing that they are starting to see things that aren't there.

DeOrr's blanket, monkey and cup. There's a huge difference between him going away camping for a period of time and not being able to cope without those things and him wandering around happily for a while without them. Kids sometimes just need to know these things are always around to keep them happy. They don't have to always have them in their hands at all times. So just knowing the blankie, monkey and sippy cup are with the group on the trip may have been enough. DeOrr didn't necessarily need to be always carrying them on his person.

Secondly, the dad is a truck driver. No disrespect again but language skills aren't the top priority for a trucker. Here you have a man who probably had a mediocre education, who probably isn't used to verbalising his feelings, who is now in a situation where his son has disappeared and he's having to give an interview. In the raw video I saw a young man, trying his best to verbalise his thoughts and feelings, trying to get as much information over as possible and trying desperately to cling onto control of this awful situation as much as he could. Do I think he messed up words? Yeah definitely. Do I think he's trying to hide something? Not at all.

Thirdly, the store clerk has not publicly said she saw DeOrr Sr or Jn that day. Apparently she has said she saw a man and a filthy bawling child. This is information from the family given over two weeks ago. You can't tell me that in that part of Idaho there are not two men, with black trucks who had little blond haired children.

Dad says he was at the store and back at camp around 1pm. There is no way that he could hide DeOrr Jn for all that time and then sneak off to the store at 6pm without anyone noticing. None at all. LE were at the camp searching for a missing DeOrr from mid-afternoon. Where would dad hide DeOrr? How would he explain being missing long enough at 6pm to go to the store and disappear DeOrr? Why would he go to the store and risk being seen with DeOrr if his intention was to disappear him, which is what the intention would have had to have been seeing as DeOrr is already missing? Why wouldn't anyone notice DeOrr senior missing all that time?

If DeOrr Jr had been taken by a wildlife predator where is the evidence. No tracks, no trails, no decomp odour, no fly swarms around the body, no other predators coming to feed off the body, no buzzards circling. Predators don't bury the body 6ft down, they cover the body with leaves and branches and return to it, along with other animals, to feed. Yet there's no evidence of that.

I'm not meaning to be critical but logical.

 

[ClaireNC]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I checked the weather in Leadore for that day. The temp was 85 degrees. I'm not saying it means anything, but pretty warm to have a jacket on.
.http://www.wundermap.net/personal-w...storyTable#history/s20150610/e20150710/mmonth

Thanks! I had wondered about that very thing and glad you looked it up. I could see in the evening where it may cool down near/after sunset, but this was in the mid-afternoon July heat. Even for ID, summer is summer unless there is a low front or rain to cool things off. He was dressed for nighttime not fun in the sun! Interesting.

Both Leadore and the campground are at a pretty high elevation and the air there is thin and dry. It always feels cooler there than the thermometer indicates. I haven't been to that exact campground, but I have camped in that part of the state.

 

[leep]

Could you please tell me which video you're referring to? When I clicked on a link for a tribute video I got the message that it was not available. Unless it's because I'm on my iPad.
Thank you.

Open it in Safari the link works on my iPhone so should work on your iPad hope that helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL0Gv9PiaLY&feature=youtu.be

 

[gliving]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I checked the weather in Leadore for that day. The temp was 85 degrees. I'm not saying it means anything, but pretty warm to have a jacket on.
.http://www.wundermap.net/personal-w...storyTable#history/s20150610/e20150710/mmonth

True. But Leadore elevation is 5,971 ft and Stone Reservoir is 7605ft. The higher you go, the chillier it can get.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadore,_Idaho
http://www.roadonmap.com/us/where-is/Stone_Reservoir-Lemhi_ID,reservoir

 

[Niner]

Hi all!

I take it there are no NEW updates on little DeOrr or the searching? :waitasec:

I got permission from Bessie to post a timeline for this case - and PLEASE NOTE that the times are all "approximate" from information gathered from MSM.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot

When and IF we get more information on actual times I will post a new version.

:seeya:

 

[renarde]

Going off of my map, you can see how the road in and out of the area splits into 3 roads. If they were along the center road, someone could have driven up either of the other two roads and taken him. Especially the regular 172 rd. If little DeOrr went in the direction of his parents, he could have come out of the woods right at the 172, where someone could have snatched him. But then again, I would think they would find his scent through there.


(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-5&p=11969178#post11969178)

Other than the road to the campground, I think there are trails all around... for hikers, or people on horses... ATV...

I suppose someone could've gotten to that campground (and away) on foot, or by horse or by ATV, and not necessarily in proximity of that one road.

 

[teeandcee]

I'm not meaning to be critical but logical.

And I'm being logical when I consider an animal predator to be a very real possibility. No matter what the theory there's no physical evidence to back it up. Either they missed it or it got obliterated by all the foot and vehicle traffic.

Let me rephrase that; there's no physical evidence we've been told about.

 

[rkf]

That's interesting. The reporter said the parents, along with everyone else, were asked by LE to return to Idaho Falls while the pro search continued. That clip was from July 14th.

My apologies if this video has already been posted but I didn't find it in the media/timeline thread and I haven't seen it before. I have to admit that up to this point I've been somewhat skeptical about what really happened to little Deorr, but in this video all I see is two grieving parents.

[video]http://m.localnews8.com/news/Family-holds-vigil-for-missing-toddler/34151958[/video]

Also, Re: some photos posted on the aunt's FB, they are of little Deorr standing in shallow water with what appears to be a fishing pole - he is so precious . I wonder where / when those photos were taken. I just bring them up because the obvious delight on his face shows how much he enjoyed the water, there doesn't appear to be any fear there. Yet if he did get down to the water and drown, with all the extensive searching why wasn't he found? It's just a mystery how he wasn't found at all anywhere in that area, unless he was abducted. Now I'm wondering if anyone noticed any suspicious characters at the store when they were there who may have been listening or over heard them say where they were going, or even followed them. Someone familiar with the area. I also haven't heard whether that store had video cameras. Does anyone know ? TIA

Another thing, according to the FB comments on the aunt's page, there has definitely been a lot of negativity and bashing of the family which would explain some of the demeanor and statements in mom and dad's interview. Plus I imagine that most people, myself for one, wouldn't exactly feel comfortable being interviewed and basically being put under a microscope while the whole world is watching... and possibly blaming you for your baby missing. I sincerely hope and pray to never be in that position. :scared: Ok, I'll shut up :blush: Well, just one more thing: this silence is deafening.

 

[LookingForClues]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I checked the weather in Leadore for that day. The temp was 85 degrees. I'm not saying it means anything, but pretty warm to have a jacket on.
.http://www.wundermap.net/personal-w...storyTable#history/s20150610/e20150710/mmonth

Thanks! I had wondered about that very thing and glad you looked it up. I could see in the evening where it may cool down near/after sunset, but this was in the mid-afternoon July heat. Even for ID, summer is summer unless there is a low front or rain to cool things off. He was dressed for nighttime not fun in the sun! Interesting.

In addition to what ClaireNC and gliving have said regarding the temperature, they were camping near a creek and a reservoir. The water can make the air cooler. And it looked like the creek is in a steep ravine, so that makes it cooler too. If there was a breeze, that would affect air temps too. And being in the shade versus being in the full sun. Whenever I've camped and hiked in areas like this, I often find myself putting on and taking off layers, depending on all of those factors.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

We went camping last weekend along the Salmon River (near Riggins which is nowhere near Leadore, etc.) and there were fire restrictions in place - absolutely no fire allowed, even in designated fire pits. It made me wonder about DK's statement about leaving Deorr with grandpa by the campfire... I wonder if there were fire restrictions there as well - and most people don't build a fire right away, especially in the afternoon. Just thought it was strange. Not sure that it means anything, though.

Great catch! We should look up the burn bans on July 10th for that area. Yes, 85 degrees is a bit warm for a fire and quite early for cooking dinner. No reason to have a fire.

 

[LietKynes]

Still nothing.
Am marking my spot, again.
I'd thought that abduction had been ruled out earlier on; but I'd have to red back through many posts and am really not sure this was even stated.
IF DeOrr was abducted--- it had to be a crime of opportunity, since it wasn't very crowded in that area and someone driving off in a cloud of dust (after grabbing him) would have certainly been noticed !

Baffling that there's no scent markers at all.
Here's a thought/question: If someone is picked up and thrown into a vehicle, and driven away...... can sar dogs find any scent at all ?
Somehow I thought they could follow it for a distance.

Maybe I've been reading too many mystery novels. Anyone remember P.D. James ? I thought he was a superb author.
sorry off-topic.
:moo:

 

[rkf]

If this is the case, someone spirited his body away very carefully.

The thing that is mystifying to me is if an accident happened at the camp ground, wouldn't the dogs have found his scent? If he got out of the truck and walked around, even for a little while, would the dogs have had some trail to follow?

 

[needtoknow]

When I first heard about DeOrr missing, my first thought was "mountain lion got him". I live in the Pacific NW. It is just something we think about around here. I DO think it's possible he could've been scooped up without leaving a trace. If everyone at the camp is telling the truth, then in my opinion, it is the most plausible scenario. If someone at camp is not telling the truth, I think with a lot of questioning, LE would be able to see through it.
ILOKAL - I like your perseverance!

 

[rkf]

I saw a video of their campsite with a fire going during the day, but I don't know if it was their original campsite or one they moved to after the search began. Interesting info about the fire restrictions! I also thought if they did build a fire right away or if ggp and IR got there earlier and built a campfire, it wouldn't make sense to leave a toddler near the fire with people who can't move very fast.

We went camping last weekend along the Salmon River (near Riggins which is nowhere near Leadore, etc.) and there were fire restrictions in place - absolutely no fire allowed, even in designated fire pits. It made me wonder about DK's statement about leaving Deorr with grandpa by the campfire... I wonder if there were fire restrictions there as well - and most people don't build a fire right away, especially in the afternoon. Just thought it was strange. Not sure that it means anything, though.

 

[TeaTime]

Just an FYI. When people are considered 'Suspects' they have to be Mirandized and then they usually lawyer up. When they are "Persons of Interest" they do not have to be Mirandized. POI applies to anyone who has information as to where everyone was and what happened before the child disappeared, those with the child when he was last seen, those considered to be the last people known to have seen the child. LE needs voluntary cooperation and unlimited access to all 4 adults at this time.