OH - Samuel Dubose, 43, killed by Cincinnati LE during traffic stop, 19 July 2015

[nothingnew]

What happened to the one criminal brother?

At that time nothing. He wasn't the driver, he was just there. Currently criminal brother is coming back to the state Monday to turn himself in for probation violations. Allegedly.

 

[Constance]

JMO, I think it's a disservice to victims of police abuse and distracts from the core issue to hone in on the racial aspect of cases like this. Although we hear more in the media about the cases involving African Americans, people of all races, and even pets, have fallen victim. Oftentimes commonalities like youth or low economic status can be found among the victims, but the racial stuff really depends on the locale and culture, which we know varies widely across the US.

IMO police abuse is an American issue that Americans of all backgrounds should be concerned about. I've only ever had pleasant experiences with police (they were either assisting me in some way or we were socializing; I've never been pulled over or arrested) myself, but this still disturbs me. The racial stuff can be distracting and divisive, if you ask me.

"Whatever this country is willing to do to the least of us, it will one day do to us all." - Killer Mike (Don't let the "killer" part fool you, the man just has a "killer" intellect!)

That said, I can only imagine how nerve-wracking it would be to be pulled over and also be a black male at the same time.

 

[bluesneakers]

JMO, I think it's a disservice to victims of police abuse and distracts from the core issue to hone in on the racial aspect of cases like this. Although we hear more in the media about the cases involving African Americans, people of all races, and even pets, have fallen victim. Oftentimes commonalities like youth or low economic status can be found among the victims, but the racial stuff really depends on the locale and culture, which we know varies widely across the US.

IMO police abuse is an American issue that Americans of all backgrounds should be concerned about. I've only ever had pleasant experiences with police (they were either assisting me in some way or we were socializing; I've never been pulled over or arrested) myself, but this still disturbs me. The racial stuff can be distracting and divisive, if you ask me.

"Whatever this country is willing to do to the least of us, it will one day do to us all." - Killer Mike (Don't let the "killer" part fool you, the man just has a "killer" intellect!)

That said, I can only imagine how nerve-wracking it would be to be pulled over and also be a black male at the same time.

I agree it's an issue Americans of all backgrounds should be concerned about, but it's unlikely all Americans will be concerned until it affects all Americans equally.

When race is a major factor in an issue like police brutality, imo it shouldn't be ignored.

I'm curious about the racial stuff depending on the locale and culture. What does that mean?

 

[Constance]

I agree it's an issue Americans of all backgrounds should be concerned about, but it's unlikely all Americans will be concerned until it affects all Americans equally.

When race is a major factor in an issue like police brutality, imo it shouldn't be ignored.

I'm curious about the racial stuff depending on the locale and culture. What does that mean?

To your first sentence: Yes! That's why I feel the way I do about focusing too much on the racial aspect.

By locale & culture I meant that in places with a lower African American population & a higher, say, Hispanic or Native American population, dirty cops may tend to target these races instead. In places with a majority white population, the bad ones might be rougher on the people on one side of town. In the "better" cities & towns, it's the skateboarding kids, or the long-hairs (do people still say that? lol) who have to watch out.

I don't think it should be ignored, but when we focus on race instead of the abuse of power, we alienate some Americans, right or wrong. It puts people on the defensive and causes racial lines to be drawn when they shouldn't be.

Murder victim Mr. Samuel Dubose was an American. Murder victim Mr. Samuel Dubose was a human being. He could have been any one of our's husband, brother, son. I just hate to see people squabble over race when the issue is so much bigger. IMO

 

[BellaVita]

He was racially profiling and stopping black drivers. That is discrimination. How about we have the police start pulling over luxury cars of billionaire bankers, and questioning them about the billions of dollars they are ripping off from this country? Oh, no. We don't do that, because white criminals have rights.

It is speculation to say he was profiling. Nobody here can claim any personal knowledge, AFAIK, whether he was or was not doing that.

 

[BellaVita]

So clearly there was something other than simply "more lawlessness" going on, and even if that is the case I don't see how it would double for AA but stay the same for white people, and regardless of how many previous arrests/citations he's made he murdered a black man.

It depends who is committing more crimes. Look what is happening in the cities. I look every day at the local news for a decent sized city 50 miles away and there is a trend. There is a trend in many large cities. Just google "crime spike". Even in the smaller locales surrounding the big city, there is a trend. A lot of people don't want to acknowledge that, but it's the truth.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/02/us/crime-in-america/

Article linked is about rise in crime.

 

[ellie b]

To your first sentence: Yes! That's why I feel the way I do about focusing too much on the racial aspect.

By locale & culture I meant that in places with a lower African American population & a higher, say, Hispanic or Native American population, dirty cops may tend to target these races instead. In places with a majority white population, the bad ones might be rougher on the people on one side of town. In the "better" cities & towns, it's the skateboarding kids, or the long-hairs (do people still say that? lol) who have to watch out.

I don't think it should be ignored, but when we focus on race instead of the abuse of power, we alienate some Americans, right or wrong. It puts people on the defensive and causes racial lines to be drawn when they shouldn't be.

Murder victim Mr. Samuel Dubose was an American. Murder victim Mr. Samuel Dubose was a human being. He could have been any one of our's husband, brother, son. I just hate to see people squabble over race when the issue is so much bigger. IMO

Yes, have to agree with you Constance, tolerating abuse of power is not good for the society as a whole.

 

[Tssiemer]

The University of Cincinnati is 8.3% African American. The city of Cincinnati is 44.8% African American. So I wouldn't say there is predominately more black people in that area. African Americans are clearly a minority there. Anyway the number of citations he issued to blacks had gone up substantially over last year. It's hard for me to imagine what justification there could be for that.

I live in Cincinnati. On that particular cluster of streets in that neighborhood, there are.


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[cady]

Gin is not illegal. He certainly could have let him drive off.

I think that RT knew that it wasn't gin, by the color, he really didn't make an issue of it. His big issue was whether or not SD was driving on a suspended license. He didn't believe SD when SD said NO, but he easily could have found out, and instead, played "quick draw, McGraw." JMO

 

[KaaBoom]

<modsnip> The discussion specifically was about the gin only not the shooting itself. For what it's worth Dubose was not arrested... And yes before you even reply I am fully aware he was killed before being arrested.

I want to post that I feel Dubose should not have been shot and it is a terrible situation. Emotions are running high but this was not a racially motivated crime.

With due respect, I think the fact that Tensing wrote 81 percent of his tickets to blacks, is a very good indication that this was a racially motivated crime.

Data: UC cops stepped up traffic stops

 

[BellaVita]

With due respect, I think the fact that Tensing wrote 81 percent of his tickets to blacks, is a very good indication that this was a racially motivated crime.

Data: UC cops stepped up traffic stops

There is no way of knowing it was racially motivated. Fact is, SD was violating numerous laws at the time he was stopped. If it is true that he had 2 pounds of pot in the car, it's likely that LE were already aware of him previously as a person dealing in drugs. In addition to the 75 violations/arrests already on his record, already on the radar through every fault of his own.

 

[KaaBoom]

It is speculation to say he was profiling. Nobody here can claim any personal knowledge, AFAIK, whether he was or was not doing that.

No it is not speculation. His record speaks for it's self.

Data: UC cops stepped up traffic stops

The recent emphasis on traffic has hit black motorists especially hard: They got more tickets than whites and were arrested more often as a result of traffic stops.

Ray Tensing, the white police officer who shot and killed Samuel DuBose in a July 19 traffic stop, gave 81 percent of the tickets he wrote this year to blacks. UC officers overall gave 62 percent of their tickets to blacks.

Data: UC cops stepped up traffic stops

 

[KaaBoom]

I live in Cincinnati. On that particular cluster of streets in that neighborhood, there are.

But he initiated the traffic stop at the university, which is about 90% white.

 

[KaaBoom]

I think that RT knew that it wasn't gin, by the color, he really didn't make an issue of it. His big issue was whether or not SD was driving on a suspended license. He didn't believe SD when SD said NO, but he easily could have found out, and instead, played "quick draw, McGraw." JMO

The real issue was that he stopped a black man, and wanted to search his car for drugs.

 

[cady]

The real issue was that he stopped a black man, and wanted to search his car for drugs.

Respectfully, I think that he was violation-hunting in a non-campus area to increase his proud record of citations. The most lucrative lode for those, would be in depressed areas, where cars are often old and beat-up or just not maintained for lack of funds to repair them..and where, as in Ferguson MO., drivers are saddled with unpayable fines and often DO drive on suspended licenses, and/or, uninsured vehicles. Those areas, in this country, are most often occupied by poor African Americans and Hispanics. The question is, was the shooting justified. A Grand Jury deliberated and found that there is no justification, thus RT was indicted for murder. I can't imagine a defense theory, but I am interested in hearing it. JMO

 

[Cobra Jet]

I hope I did this right:
Here is what I believe happened based on what I see in the video. Dubose starts the car and most likely was planning on driving off. Tensing pulls the gun out. At this point Dubose sees the gun and appears to raise his hands. The car may have been moving forward but in my opinion not at a high rate of speed at this point because you can still see the vehicle in the driveway. Tensing shoots Dubose and at that point you can hear the car start to accelerate. It may have been at this point that Tensing was dragged 20 feet. I see nothing in the video to prove that he was dragged before he fired the shot

Screen shots taken from this link
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/07/29/publish/30830777/


2:36 Vehicle in the driveway


2:46 Hands seem to be up after the gun is pulled but before shot fires. Vehicle in about the same place


2:46 Victim has been shot and vehicle is still in about the same place

 

[cady]

But he initiated the traffic stop at the university, which is about 90% white.

How? The stop was on Rice st,up from Valencia. On the map, that is not a campus area.JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

To your first sentence: Yes! That's why I feel the way I do about focusing too much on the racial aspect.

By locale & culture I meant that in places with a lower African American population & a higher, say, Hispanic or Native American population, dirty cops may tend to target these races instead. In places with a majority white population, the bad ones might be rougher on the people on one side of town. In the "better" cities & towns, it's the skateboarding kids, or the long-hairs (do people still say that? lol) who have to watch out.

I don't think it should be ignored, but when we focus on race instead of the abuse of power, we alienate some Americans, right or wrong. It puts people on the defensive and causes racial lines to be drawn when they shouldn't be.

Murder victim Mr. Samuel Dubose was an American. Murder victim Mr. Samuel Dubose was a human being. He could have been any one of our's husband, brother, son. I just hate to see people squabble over race when the issue is so much bigger. IMO

This is a quote from a very good article addressing the subject:

People are dying because we are supporting a racist system that justifies White people killing Black people.

We see this in the way that one Muslim killer is a sign of Islamic terror; in the way one Mexican thief is a pointer to the importance of border security; in one innocent, unarmed Black man is shot in the back by a cop, then sullied in the media as a **** and criminal.

I've seen this happen in a lot of threads here. Just look what people have said in this one. A man was murdered, point blank, for no reason that could possibly be justified, but people are eager to point fingers at Samuel, as if somehow he asked for it. We can take race out of the equation when the numbers aren't so obviously tilted in favor of white people.

This is another quote from the article. I'm using it because he says it much better than I could:

White people and Black people are not having a discussion about race. Black people, thinking as a group, are talking about living in a racist system. White people, thinking as individuals, refuse to talk about "I, racist" and instead protect their own individual and personal goodness. In doing so, they reject the existence of racism. [bold mine]

Addressing racism in America is a large issue and discussing it is not squabbling. This isn't a trivial issue and to use that word is, imo, insulting and dismissive.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-metta/i-racist_b_7770652.html

 

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...came-building-saying-wife-going-kill-him.html

This happens to White people as well as minorities. It is an abuse of power, has nothing to do with racism IMO. When it happens to a White person it never gets the same play in the news but that does not mean it does not happen. The biggest problem IMO is that police are over reacting in some cases because they do want to make it home. A White policemen was just shot and killed during a routine traffic stop yesterday in Tenn , that has not made news except locally. If the officers who killed Mr.Hutcheson turn out to be Black , as well as the murderer of the Tn officer would that be considered racism ?

http://thedpost.com/Memphis-officer-8-2

 

[KaaBoom]

How? The stop was on Rice st,up from Valencia. On the map, that is not a campus area.JMO

The traffic stop was initiated on the campus, which is 90% white by a racist cop who stopped and ticketed 81% black drivers, despite the fact that only 8.3% of the students are black.

Was UC Officer Out Of His Jurisdiction?

Some community members have questioned what Officer Tensing was doing away from campus.

Goodrich said the traffic stop was initiated while Dubose was driving on campus and Dubose did not pull over until after he and Tensing were off campus.

Police describe struggle that led UC officer to shoot, kill man