IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[TheDuchess]

Woah -- that really isn't fair. I didn't say any of those things! I never said that I won't believe their determination, nor did I say that I'm 100% convinced that this is a suicide and that nothing would change my mind.

You said "I think that the only way we won't get a determination of what happened is if there is a lack of will by the PD, which I think is entirely possible."

To me, based upon your strong inclinations toward suicide is that you feel that if it turns out to be ruled as undermined that would only be because of the lack of will of the PD, because you feel that there is enough evidence to indicate a MOD and that you feel strongly that it is a suicide. I'm not sure my post was that unfair or out of left field.

 

[night train]

Sure. But then I don't think that talk with the mayor was about the explorers. I think the mayor wanted us to think well of Joe so he told us a nice story of what was probably just a small part of what was actually discussed.

Right and well said.

Looking like the Mayor didn't support his good 'ol pal Joe when it was crunch time.Joe may have felt betrayal and essentially told him to screw himself,that he was going to retire and completely sever all ties with Fox Lake including the Explorers he had devoted so much time to.

I don't see Joe talking about the Explorers as foreshadowing a suicide,it's what the Mayor didn't say about the meeting that makes my skin crawl.

 

[TheDuchess]

OR, they were really there and they really were tricky and they killed him and they disappeared without a trace of themselves or their spaceship. JMO JMO JMO

Why? Because perps have never evaded the police before?

 

[TheDuchess]

Right and well said.

Looking like the Mayor didn't support his good 'ol pal Joe when it was crunch time.Joe may have felt betrayal and essentially told him to screw himself,that he was going to retire and completely sever all ties with Fox Lake including the Explorers he had devoted so much time to.

I don't see Joe talking about the Explorers as foreshadowing a suicide,it's what the Mayor didn't say about the meeting that makes my skin crawl.

BBM - what didn't he say?

 

[Cubby]

Another thing about the suspects being on drugs. We'd have to add being able to outsmart the entire 400 plus involved in the man hunt. I have a hard time thinking school ditching teenagers or drop outs who are under the influence could outsmart so many and escape undetected. We would have to really dumb down all LEO involved for that theory to be possible,

 

[DexterMorgan]

If they found and cleared the original 2ws and 1b then this means he past them by earlier. Gave them time to leave with enough distance so they won't hear the gunshots.

Once he realized that they were gone. He called in and continued with the suicide. Jmo

He may have wanted to just kill himself. But after seeing them; Decided to leave more benefits to his family by acting like it was in the line of duty. Jmo if this was a suicide.

So the early morning suicide may have been planned. But the line of duty death may have just crossed his mind 20 minutes prior. Jmt. Just my thoughts for now.

 

[night train]

I think that IF CG fabricated a trio, he either saw that trio somewhere, sometime that morning OR he was calculating in his description. It is possible that KNOWING he was making this up, he may have chosen that number and description thinking that it was not likely to be a group that WOULD be found. OR it could have been calculated to alarm LE that it was perhaps a domestic terrorist assault on an officer. I do NOT KNOW, but I do know that Homeland Security and Marshalls and FBI were immediately on the case, in full force. JMO I do not think that he just pulled that description out of a hat. He either saw a group of that description, and used that, or he crafted a description. JMO

I get what you're saying,all I know is what I observe nationwide and locally.The descriptions didn't register with me in terms of black,white,brown or yellow on any level the day of the shooting or since.I attributed the mega-response to it being a Police Death in the line of duty.They take care of their own and so do I.

 

[bluesneakers]

You said "I think that the only way we won't get a determination of what happened is if there is a lack of will by the PD, which I think is entirely possible."

To me, based upon your strong inclinations toward suicide is that you feel that if it turns out to be ruled as undermined that would only be because of the lack of will of the PD, because you feel that there is enough evidence to indicate a MOD and that you feel strongly that it is a suicide. I'm not sure my post was that unfair or out of left field.

I didn't read it that way at all. The way I understood it Montjoy was saying if we don't get a result it will be because the PD not pursuing it as vigorously as they could. IMO that's not implying the result won't be believable. I agree with the part of your comment that's BBM, but with the rest I think you were inferring more than what was there.

JMO etc.

 

[TheDuchess]

I didn't read it that way at all. The way I understood it Montjoy was saying if we don't get a result it will be because the PD not pursuing it as vigorously as they could. IMO that's not implying the result won't be believable. I agree with the part of your comment that's BBM, but with the rest I think you were inferring more than what was there.

JMO etc.

Yes - I inferred it, but still don't think it is much of a reach.

@Montjoy - tell me I am wrong. If they come back with an "undetermined" do you think it would be because they didn't investigate enough and if so, why?

 

[night train]

BBM - what didn't he say?

The Mayor fed everyone a bunch of sentimental horse stuff about Joe's hope that the Explorers would continue to flourish after he retired during their 90 minute meeting.That has always seemed phony to me.

Joe didn't get the Antioch Chief Of Police job back in May 2015.Fox Lake's Police Chief abruptly retired at the end of August.I think it was perhaps Boo Radley or (disclaimer follows) someone else if I'm mistaken who explained that Joe's position as Lieutenant with whatever particular responsibilities he had made him the logical choice to at least serve as the interim Chief Of Police for Fox Lake.Joe not becoming Chief had to be a triple decker rejection sandwich.It couldn't have been a pleasant part of their meeting.

Enough to be the catalyst for suicide ? For many people it could be,all possibilities remain on the table for me.I pray that his family soon finds closure and peace.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Yes - I inferred it, but still don't think it is much of a reach.

@Montjoy - tell me I am wrong. If they come back with an "undetermined" do you think it would be because they didn't investigate enough and if so, why?

Hi Duchess. I may not be Montjoy but I will say this. If suicide or homicide in a case at this magnitude is labeled undetermined; Then it simply means that the coroner wasn't 100% sure and didn't want to risk their career or professionalism by jumping the gun.

This means the case can still be investigated as a homicide or suicide without busting the coroners chops in the future.

Imo. The coroner can't say either way for sure. So undetermined should be his answer.

But I don't know if the death benefits insurance and life insurance will still be argued with a undetermined mod. Or will it just pay out as if he died in the line of duty.

I really don't know what undetermined means when it comes to insurance payouts.

But in this case. He has been on the force for 32 years plus he was eligible to apply for the chief of police job. So if it does come back as undetermined. Then I would say pay his family 100% of everything until something says different. Jmo

 

[Cubby]

I disagree on paying the 100%. That is reserved for officers who die in the line of duty, we do not know that this is homicide at this point. I doubt the pay out is 100% for officers who commit suicide while on duty. Pay the 75% and then if at sometime in the future this is determined to be a homicide the additional 25% can be paid out retroactive to Sept 1.

 

[Solitaryone]

If they found and cleared the original 2ws and 1b then this means he past them by earlier. Gave them time to leave with enough distance so they won't hear the gunshots.

Once he realized that they were gone. He called in and continued with the suicide. Jmo

He may have wanted to just kill himself. But after seeing them; Decided to leave more benefits to his family by acting like it was in the line of duty. Jmo if this was a suicide.

So the early morning suicide may have been planned. But the line of duty death may have just crossed his mind 20 minutes prior. Jmt. Just my thoughts for now.

Great post, thank's! I'm starting to lean in this direction too.

 

[TheDuchess]

Just curious if anyone knows how PDs typically choose their Chief of Police, etc... Do they typically promote from within? Particularly when there is a "situation" going on where there is an interim person put in the position and then a search? Antioch was obviously looking outside their police force, and ultimately chose someone from St. Charles. Is that typical? The reason I ask is that many are assuming that LtJ would have been the logical person to be put in as interim or even given the COP position ultimately. I'm not sure if that is the case. Anyone have insight?

 

[night train]

I think they know his car was in the area for 20 minutes and somehow that info morphed into being on foot for 20 minutes. There is no real way to know he whether he was inside or outside of his squad car for 20 minutes, but logically it would seem he spent some time on foot so he could make sure the area appeared as he wanted it to, hence the signs of a struggle to the area, but not on his person.

That 20 minutes on foot scenario requires that Lt.J would have roughed up an area to make it appear there were signs of a struggle and shot the lower portion of his bulletproof vest but didn't (if current info is correct) make at least some effort to mess up his clothing or aquire a small abrasion or two.Heck,I'd at least roll in some mud or dirt.

 

[TheDuchess]

As far as the benefit for dying in the line of duty, I'm not sure how I actually feel about this if it turns out "undetermined." I feel that that particular death benefit should be reserved for those cases that are ruled homicide. To me that benefit isn't a "given" and should be subject to a higher standard of proof. That said, I hope the family is able to collect all of his pension and any life insurance there may have been.

 

[TheDuchess]

That 20 minutes on foot scenario requires that Lt.J would have roughed up an area to make it appear there were signs of a struggle and shot the lower portion of his bulletproof vest but didn't (if current info is correct) make at least some effort to mess up his clothing or aquire a small abrasion or two.Heck,I'd at least roll in some mud or dirt.

Right??? I've been saying this as well. Many are pointing to suicide because of what "isn't there." What about what isn't there on the other side of things that should be there if it was staged? I mean, I would have beaten the crap out of myself, it would have been a big old mess, because I'd want it to look like I didn't go down without a fight!

 

[Thora_Jay]

The area that Lt. Gliniewicz was assigned to patrol was a known source of complaints pertaining to drugs, squatting and vandalism.

As far as the DNA swabs go, the DNA swabs were taken from anyone who had contact with Lt. Gliniewicz or anyone at the crime scene.
Fox Lake PD removed the FBI from the jurisdiction, the FBI (their search dog removed due to exhaustion) has their own investigation going.

Just because there is roll-call, that does not mean that they have to be in attendance.There are certain circumstances exempting roll-call presence.

This case is truly unlike any other.
Was anyone able top view the photos I posted last month of the outer perimeter of both entrances of the crime scene?

 

[katydid23]

Right??? I've been saying this as well. Many are pointing to suicide because of what "isn't there." What about what isn't there on the other side of things that should be there if it was staged? I mean, I would have beaten the crap out of myself, it would have been a big old mess, because I'd want it to look like I didn't go down without a fight!

Exactly. Why didnt he roll in the dirt, knock his glasses off? Why didnt he radio in after 1st shot and say he was in a struggle?

 

[DexterMorgan]

The area that Lt. Gliniewicz was assigned to patrol was a known source of complaints pertaining to drugs, squatting and vandalism.

As far as the DNA swabs go, the DNA swabs were taken from anyone who had contact with Lt. Gliniewicz or anyone at the crime scene.
Fox Lake PD removed the FBI from the jurisdiction, the FBI (their search dog removed due to exhaustion) has their own investigation going.

Just because there is roll-call, that does not mean that they have to be in attendance.There are certain circumstances exempting roll-call presence.

This case is truly unlike any other.
Was anyone able top view the photos I posted last month of the outer perimeter of both entrances of the crime scene?

This town must be small. Because a LT is never ever ever expected at a scene or working the line of duty in a particular area before their start time.

A LT is a high rank for a reason. It means they are above seargants at least.

So why would a LT be out there. When he could have been in the office and chilling out at the beginning of his shift.

A LT is not starting a surveillance at 7am. Jmo