ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[giagreen]

.

Look at parts of this video .... at 00:45 you can clearly see the water runs UNDERGROUND at the dam , it does not run over the top. And it is a substantial flow of water , not little pinholes letting a few drops leak through .

I dont happen to think DeOrr is in the reservoir , it is a long ways from the campground ... I simply wanted to point out how water flows underground , there have to be some cavities there for it to do that

Look at 1:57 in the video ... the creek is straight ahead of the camera but there is water showing up from the left and partly from underground and around rocks on the side of the creek

2:15 to 2:20 has a bit more video of the creek

We have already discussed to death what the grandfather said , so lets not go there again , just watch the water. thanks

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

It won't let me. It says the video isn't available and try back later

 

[Onebest]

I don't have a definite answer, but I can't see why not. Weren't there heavy rains right afterward? I wonder if, and how, that would have an effect. I believe it was Arnie who brought up the subject of bringing cadaver dogs on boats out into the reservoir. Maybe that's been done, but I haven't read that anywhere.

Then there's the creek. I know it was searched, but again, can we be certain nothing was missed?

ETA: I didn't see Arnie's post when I posted. I'm right there with ya, bud. It's as good a possibility as anything else at this point, and the most obvious and likely one, at that.

This news video shows some of the searching being done in the creek, I do agree that its extremely easy to miss something in water and searching it again is a good idea.

http://www.examiner.com/article/deo...gs-thrown-off-search-of-missing-idaho-toddler

Somewhere I saw news photos of the dogs being used in boat in the rez, am still trying to locate them. That being said, to my recollection at the time the dogs were used they were confused by the scent of the cremains that had been thrown in. If they have not been brought back again that is a good idea as well. Its possible they have and we don't know.

I have a mental visual of a this tiny guy falling into the rez and I just don't see how he could have done this and not ended up too from the bank where he would have been visible. Unless the bank abruptly falls off into deeper water you would think he would have been right by the edge if he fell in. I believe it would be very easy for him to get held down in silt. His boots, if they were on his feet, could have filled with silt and possibly held him down. If the rez water has a constant water flow things will move around over time and he could still be there and not have been found yet. I agree on the water. All of this is just my opinions.

 

[kammiemc]

.

Look at parts of this video .... at 00:45 you can clearly see the water runs UNDERGROUND at the dam , it does not run over the top. And it is a substantial flow of water , not little pinholes letting a few drops leak through .

I dont happen to think DeOrr is in the reservoir , it is a long ways from the campground ... I simply wanted to point out how water flows underground , there have to be some cavities there for it to do that

Look at 1:57 in the video ... the creek is straight ahead of the camera but there is water showing up from the left and partly from underground and around rocks on the side of the creek

2:15 to 2:20 has a bit more video of the creek

We have already discussed to death what the grandfather said , so lets not go there again , just watch the water. thanks

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

Arnie, it sounds like the search team was top notch, at least from what we have heard. If they knew the creek and could detect some of the things you are talking about, such as the deep pockets and where the creek went under the dam--and they followed protocol in terms of their methods--is it still likely they could have missed the toddler? The jug idea seems fairly brilliant. Is that something search teams might be familiar with?


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[Onebest]

.

Look at parts of this video .... at 00:45 you can clearly see the water runs UNDERGROUND at the dam , it does not run over the top. And it is a substantial flow of water , not little pinholes letting a few drops leak through .

I dont happen to think DeOrr is in the reservoir , it is a long ways from the campground ... I simply wanted to point out how water flows underground , there have to be some cavities there for it to do that

Look at 1:57 in the video ... the creek is straight ahead of the camera but there is water showing up from the left and partly from underground and around rocks on the side of the creek

2:15 to 2:20 has a bit more video of the creek

We have already discussed to death what the grandfather said , so lets not go there again , just watch the water. thanks

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

Thats a LOT of water, much much more then what I thought listening to it described verbally. A baby wouldn't last a sec. I saw that water coming in from the left and I wonder where is that stream coming from? Another opening in the Rez? JMO

 

[gliving]

Another view of the creek from Twin Falls SAR facebook page. It's a few feet across and maybe knee deep at the deepest areas. Searched by divers, drones, dogs, etc. I don't know what more we could ask for in terms of searching.


https://www.facebook.com/twinfallssheriff/posts/871845679520079

 

[haven71]

Many posters seem to easily cast away other possibilities and hang on to dear life to their own theory. I wish LE could be so certain about something.

All I know is...I won't be surprised. Taken by a mountain lion, drowned, missed by searchers, abduction, accident and cover up and any other possibility. Except one I guess, and that is stranger abduction.

Whatever the resolution (and I pray there is one) I hope there are no "I told you so!'s" or "I said it first's!" LOL

 

[Onebest]

Many posters seem to easily cast away other possibilities and hang on to dear life to their own theory. I wish LE could be so certain about something.

All I know is...I won't be surprised. Taken by a mountain lion, drowned, missed by searchers, abduction, accident and cover up and any other possibility. Except one I guess, and that is stranger abduction.

Whatever the resolution (and I pray there is one) I hope there are no "I told you so!'s" or "I said it first's!" LOL

I think all of us would really be so happy no one would think about a gloat moment. Praying there is a resolution too.

 

[Mickshawn]

I wish somehow the reservoir could be temporarily dammed up (or diverted) so the creekbed would drain out.....would be way easier to search without water. Is that even possible?

 

[kammiemc]

So it took them between maybe an hour to a 1 1/2 to arrive at the store???

Or
-JM's mom was mistaken on the time of the text

Or
-The parents left the store earlier and JM sent the text from somewhere else.

Still....

The sheriff says they left for town at 10:30 or 11.
And DK said they were back at the campsite at 1 PM.

So a 2-hour or 2 1/2-hour trip.

Maybe they went to the hunting supplies store or drove around exploring creeks and the sheriff can only confirm the store because that's the only receipt from that trip.

I do wonder if there has been some inconsistency in statements and that is why facts around the store trip seem to be important to both the parents and LE. (And maybe why the sheriff doesn't want to share the time stamp.)


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[wondering25]

There must be highway cameras? Road cameras.. something.. I wonder if their vehicle was seen on camera? As a matter of fact, i wonder If the creep in the jeep was seen on a highway camera? MOO

 

[desert-blue]

I wish somehow the reservoir could be temporarily dammed up (or diverted) so the creekbed would drain out.....would be way easier to search without water. Is that even possible?

Most reservoirs in Idaho get pretty low in the winter. Some even dry up all together (usually late summer, early fall). Not sure about Stone Reservoir - it is pretty tiny and seems more like a "recreational" type reservoir (rather than a functional reservoir that would be used to store spring snow melt for irrigation and/or for flood control). Regardless, I would expect that it would be lower now than it was in July, but having not been there, I don't know. I would also expect the creek flow to be much lower right now than it was in July. It's been really warm and dry this fall for most of the state.

 

[ReadySet]

Or
-JM's mom was mistaken on the time of the text

Or
-The parents left the store earlier and JM sent the text from somewhere else.

Still....

The sheriff says they left for town at 10:30 or 11.
And DK said they were back at the campsite at 1 PM.

So a 2-hour or 2 1/2-hour trip.

Maybe they went to the hunting supplies store or drove around exploring creeks and the sheriff can only confirm the store because that's the only receipt from that trip.

I do wonder if there has been some inconsistency in statements and that is why facts around the store trip seem to be important to both the parents and LE. (And maybe why the sheriff doesn't want to share the time stamp.)


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BBM Maybe....but you would think they would have included that in their timeline if so.

 

[kammiemc]

BBM Maybe....but you would think they would have included that in their timeline if so.

True.
Although I assume the sheriff asked the parents what they were doing in those couple hours when they went to town. They had to have said SOMETHING in addition to going to the store--"I think"--unless they claimed to be at the convenience store for well over an hour. Or just said they didn't know. All I know is that whatever they said has not been shared with the public by LE or the parents. Hmm.

 

[Little Ol Me]

I've gone through the latest interview several time, but can't find where it says the FBI's report is complete?

Maybe this will help.

http://www.postregister.com/article...missing-toddler-search-met-national-standards

Paywall article - basically Bowerman says attending a training conference confirmed to him that he did everything right in his search. And the FBI analysis hasn't told him anything he didn't already know. He's going to reinterview everyone to make sure he didn't miss anything. And he says it's surprising how many cases there are like this across the country.

 

[Onebest]

Most reservoirs in Idaho get pretty low in the winter. Some even dry up all together (usually late summer, early fall). Not sure about Stone Reservoir - it is pretty tiny and seems more like a "recreational" type reservoir (rather than a functional reservoir that would be used to store spring snow melt for irrigation and/or for flood control). Regardless, I would expect that it would be lower now than it was in July, but having not been there, I don't know. I would also expect the creek flow to be much lower right now than it was in July. It's been really warm and dry this fall for most of the state.

I tried to research this rez and where the water comes from. I didn't get too far...most of the info that comes up is about this search. Its a fishing area so I wonder if the water is stocked? Since its land locked I would imagine it would have to be unless it self populates from the fish it contains. Not sure how that works. I actually like your idea about draining it Mickshawn but I have no idea of what it would involve and since the Sheriff says he feels that the searches done cleared the water already I don't think it would be in his thought process. They have lowered the rivers around here during searches and other events by regulating the dams.

I also wonder where the creek ends up? It looks strong enough to carry something for quite a ways if the conditions were correct. I could be wrong of course. Its JMO and thoughts since we are talking about this.

 

[Onebest]

Maybe this will help.

It would help, I have read a copy of the article but you have to pay to read it on line at post register so the link doesn't help unless someone feels so inclined to pay

Whoops sorry, I just read back where you posted the important part..thx.

 

[Mickshawn]

I tried to research this rez and where the water comes from. I didn't get too far...most of the info that comes up is about this search. Its a fishing area so I wonder if the water is stocked? Since its land locked I would imagine it would have to be unless it self populates from the fish it contains. Not sure how that works. I actually like your idea about draining it Mickshawn but I have no idea of what it would involve and since the Sheriff says he feels that the searches done cleared the water already I don't think it would be in his thought process. They have lowered the rivers around here during searches and other events by regulating the dams.

I also wonder where the creek ends up? It looks strong enough to carry something for quite a ways if the conditions were correct. I could be wrong of course. Its JMO and thoughts since we are talking about this.

I was actually thinking of damming or diverting the water from the reservoir to dry out the creek for better searching.

I, too, have wondered where the creek water all goes....

 

[ReadySet]

Most reservoirs in Idaho get pretty low in the winter. Some even dry up all together (usually late summer, early fall). Not sure about Stone Reservoir - it is pretty tiny and seems more like a "recreational" type reservoir (rather than a functional reservoir that would be used to store spring snow melt for irrigation and/or for flood control). Regardless, I would expect that it would be lower now than it was in July, but having not been there, I don't know. I would also expect the creek flow to be much lower right now than it was in July. It's been really warm and dry this fall for most of the state.

Good post with helpful information. OT: I had always assumed until recently that anything called a "reservoir" was man made. But that is incorrect, sometimes a natural lake can have a dam put in, like here, and then it could be called a reservoir. So I think that is what happened here. Helpful to know, also, that "Stone Reservoir" and "Timbercreek Reservoir" seem to be interchangable names for this little body of water.

 

[Onebest]

I was actually thinking of damming or diverting the water from the reservoir to dry out the creek for better searching.

I, too, have wondered where the creek water all goes....

I think that is a brilliant idea. JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

Bowerman said in the latest news clip that they left 1030/11 in the morning to go to the store. DK said they didnt leave the campsite after 1pm. If we take 11 in the morning.. add 20 minutes each way that is 40 mins and what 20 minutes in the store? that is an hour.. 11-1120.. to store..20 minutes in store.. 1140..20 minutes to drive back ..1200 noon.. where did an hour go between 12 and 1 when they hadnt left the campsite after 1pm?? MOO

Has it ever been said what time they returned to camp? Just because they didn't leave cap after 1:00 doesn't mean they returned to camp at 1:00. At least in my opinion it doesn't. They may have returned at noon.