CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

[greenbean]

Did I post on the correct thread re Undisclosed (Hae Min Lee and Adnan Syed)?

Hi Tiss. You're in the right place. I'm just usually banging on about all sorts of barely-related nonsense!

Welcome!
😀👍

 

[missy_g]

Having grown up in the UK, where the driving age is 17, and cars are not as necessary so many people don't get a car till they have a job in their 20s, this is interesting.
Was yours a nice, newish car? I can imagine Adnan's was a bit of an old banger and maybe he wasn't that worried about it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My car wasn't nice by any means. It was a Hyundai excel (forget the year...90 maybe?) and had like 200k on it. The body and interior were in decent shape but it wasn't a new car. I still wouldn't let anyone drive it.


Sent By Owl

 

[PeregrineFaulkner]

I was class of 1999. Had a car that I let friends drive, though not too many as it was a manual transmission. Other friends in my circle would borrow/swap cars pretty frequently. Most of us had pagers, a few kids had cell phones. All common enough to not really be remarkable. Obviously, there were a few kids who wouldn't loan our their cars, but many kids did, ime.

 

[cujenn81]

Maybe it depends on the size of the community where you grew up. ('IT' being how common--or uncommon--it was for HS kids to loan out their car to their friends.)

I can see how that might not be as common in larger, or spread out, communities.

I grew up in a small town where everybody knows everybody else. If a friend borrowed my car & did something stupid with it, someone would find out about it and news would quickly find its way back to me and both of our parents... and the rest of the entire county.

 

[greenbean]

So, I think I'm all caught up on all the podcasts? Are all of you? Did you dears listed to undisclosed' latest where they mention the new docs and Hae's car?

That's always been the million dollar question for me: how Jay knew where that car was.

What do y'all think of this info?

I also listened to Bob rant on about his suspicions about don (again) last night. Soooo, you think don will eventually get a lawyer? I'd be really angry if I was Don.

Hope ya'll are well, look forward to your thoughts!

 

[missy_g]

I haven't listened to the undisclosed podcast, but it's always bothered me that Jay knew where Haes car was too.


Sent By Owl

 

[watergirl62]

I stopped listening to Bob. I just can't with him anymore. Always appreciated the 'talk radio' format but I believe its his tone that changed. Shrug.

I never had a car in HS. I rode in my friends cars all the time though. Beater VW bug and a beater Gremlin. Good times!

 

[cujenn81]

The latest Undisclosed episode confused the heck outta me. I looked at the police reports they talked about (with the screening factors) and had no idea what they mean. I sent them to a friend who works in LE (although, not in MD) & he said there's no way to tell exactly what the officer meant by his assigned factors of '12' and '4'---not without some type of justification or key or something that describes how they assign points to each factor.

It definitely confused me more than it helped.

I will admit that it does seem oddly coincidental that a value of 0 was given for each solvability factor, by every detective involved, except for this one guy's report one day before her body was found.

But, if anything, because that particular detective stated in his report that he was assigned to help search the contents of her computer & AOL account, it makes me wonder if he found something that led them to the car or if some other evidence was found that we don't know about because they kept it to themselves.

 

[greenbean]

I always kinda wondered if Hae talked to strangers online. I did at that age and younger. A lot.

Just kinda spitballing again....

I also was totally confused by the latest Undisclosed. Only thing I really walked away with was that Bilal was a total jerk perv. I also kinda felt like Rabia sorta let the Bilal issue go kind of easily? Maybe just my take on it.

 

[PeregrineFaulkner]

I've always been a bit confused about the whole finding of the car. As the official story goes, the car's location is only discovered in March, when Jay takes the authorities to it. And by his account, the car is ditched the day of the murder.

And the picture that can be found online of Hae's car parked on the grass was taken at the time of the discovery, before the car is moved?

Because I've never understood how a car parked in January, in Maryland, would have green grass growing under it come March. Or how it would have a clean exterior.

I also need to go back and listen to Undisclosed again, because I have a vague memory that Hae's brother came and drove the car away from where it was found. And well, that can't be right. Not if the car had sat there for months. It would have needed towing, wouldn't it?

 

[greenbean]

I've always been a bit confused about the whole finding of the car. As the official story goes, the car's location is only discovered in March, when Jay takes the authorities to it. And by his account, the car is ditched the day of the murder.

And the picture that can be found online of Hae's car parked on the grass was taken at the time of the discovery, before the car is moved?

Because I've never understood how a car parked in January, in Maryland, would have green grass growing under it come March. Or how it would have a clean exterior.

I also need to go back and listen to Undisclosed again, because I have a vague memory that Hae's brother came and drove the car away from where it was found. And well, that can't be right. Not if the car had sat there for months. It would have needed towing, wouldn't it?

You have a cool username.

I don't recall Hae's brother going to pick up her car from the spot it was found. It would be towed to impound to be printed, examined and inventoried, I'd think?!

*In most cases, maybe in this case, they just told Jay he could have it... 😜

*I've never actually SEEN the pics of Hae's car, I'm going to look for them now, if any of you dears has a link, I'd be grateful. 😊

 

[watergirl62]

I've always been a bit confused about the whole finding of the car. As the official story goes, the car's location is only discovered in March, when Jay takes the authorities to it. And by his account, the car is ditched the day of the murder.

And the picture that can be found online of Hae's car parked on the grass was taken at the time of the discovery, before the car is moved?

Because I've never understood how a car parked in January, in Maryland, would have green grass growing under it come March. Or how it would have a clean exterior.

I also need to go back and listen to Undisclosed again, because I have a vague memory that Hae's brother came and drove the car away from where it was found. And well, that can't be right. Not if the car had sat there for months. It would have needed towing, wouldn't it?

Not if it had a good battery in it. My dad and ex and brother were/are auto mechanics. Hae's car probably had a good battery. Trust me on this.

I remembered that Hae's bro drove the car also, but went back to Undisclosed Ep 5 to verify.



Collin speaking:

*snip*

In his initial interview with police, Jay says that Adnan told him, while he’s strangling Hae, Hae

kicks and breaks the windshield wiper lever in the car. Now, if you look at a 1998 Sentra, which

was Hae’s car, you had the steering column, i.e. the steering wheel. On the left is the turn signal

lever that would signal a turn left or right; on the right is the windshield wiper lever, which

obviously controls the windshield wiper. And so Jay’s saying in the initial interview she kicked the

windshield wiper lever. The detectives go, they find the car, they take photos of the steering

column, and their claim is the photos show that the windshield wiper lever is broken. However,

later they realize the photos don’t really show that. It could just be the windshield wiper lever in the

down position. Problem is, at this point in time, they have released the car to the custody of Hae’s

brother, who has taken it to a body shop that is owned by Hae’s uncle, and so this is released on

March 7th. The police go to the body shop on March 16th, and they take a video of the broken

lever.


And the car pic:

 

[greenbean]

That's the pic I continued to find but it made no sense to me. Loads of the grass is still green? I assumed there was a picture showing Hae's car in winter dead grass with bright green grass woven in the wells, as if it had been driven in live grass recently?

What am I not getting?

 

[watergirl62]

I see more dead grass than green grass on the tires and wheel wells also.

 

[cujenn81]

A few things about the latest episode of Truth & Justice:

1. Bob Ruff talks too much about his opinions. Actually, he talks too much in general. He (really) likes to hear the sound of his voice. Side note---I've seen so many people talk about how much they love listening to his voice or how they think he's got a great voice, but I feel the opposite way. I continue to listen to his podcast because I hope to hear new information or hear from someone we haven't heard from yet... but I definitely don't listen to hear the sound of his voice.

2. While Bob brought up a good point (or theory to ponder) about Hae's last diary entry, I have a real problem listening to someone delve deep into a specific document without having access to it. There's no way for me to verify the content. I'd really love to read Hae's diary, for myself, and reach my own conclusions or ideas about it. But without that access, I don't care to hear handpicked excerpts read aloud to me or hear opinions about what she might have meant.

3. His segway into next week's episode made absolutely no sense. "For any of this to even matter (her diary), we need to figure out Jay. Next week on Truth & Justice."
HUH?

 

[greenbean]

A few things about the latest episode of Truth & Justice:

1. Bob Ruff talks too much about his opinions. Actually, he talks too much in general. He (really) likes to hear the sound of his voice. Side note---I've seen so many people talk about how much they love listening to his voice or how they think he's got a great voice, but I feel the opposite way. I continue to listen to his podcast because I hope to hear new information or hear from someone we haven't heard from yet... but I definitely don't listen to hear the sound of his voice.

2. While Bob brought up a good point (or theory to ponder) about Hae's last diary entry, I have a real problem listening to someone delve deep into a specific document without having access to it. There's no way for me to verify the content. I'd really love to read Hae's diary, for myself, and reach my own conclusions or ideas about it. But without that access, I don't care to hear handpicked excerpts read aloud to me or hear opinions about what she might have meant.

3. His segway into next week's episode made absolutely no sense. "For any of this to even matter (her diary), we need to figure out Jay. Next week on Truth & Justice."
HUH?

OMG did y'all hear him give a shout out to his tattoo artist a few episodes ago?! My husband and I hate-listen together and he burst out laughing. God. He and I are terrible people.

I listened to his latest ramble on my way back from a weekend trip. He annoys me to no end. I wonder what the Undisclosed folks think of him? I'd be like "do not name drop me, like, ever. Thx."

I think poor Jim Clemente probably has all of his incessant emails filter directly into his Spam account....

His set ups for next week ARE nonsensical, cujenn.

"And next week.... Because of this week's discussion of Hae's tendency to draw elaborate doodles of her paramours names in her journal.... We'll be discussing the type of linoleum Jen had in her entranceway and if Jay REALLY bought Stephanie a bracelet for her birthday......."

 

[cujenn81]

OMG did y'all hear him give a shout out to his tattoo artist a few episodes ago?! My husband and I hate-listen together and he burst out laughing. God. He and I are terrible people.

I listened to his latest ramble on my way back from a weekend trip. He annoys me to no end. I wonder what the Undisclosed folks think of him? I'd be like "do not name drop me, like, ever. Thx."

I think poor Jim Clemente probably has all of his incessant emails filter directly into his Spam account....

His set ups for next week ARE nonsensical, cujenn.

"And next week.... Because of this week's discussion of Hae's tendency to draw elaborate doodles of her paramours names in her journal.... We'll be discussing the type of linoleum Jen had in her entranceway and if Jay REALLY bought Stephanie a bracelet for her birthday......."

HAHA! That setup example is perfect. [emoji849][emoji23]
(Especially the doodling part...!)

I follow Undisclosed on Twitter, and I've seen them retweet Bob's "new episode of T&J now live" tweets, but I haven't seen any compliments on his "work" or anything like that.

I think they're grateful for the increased awareness/involvement that his podcast brings to the case and I'm sure they were interested to hear the opinions of Jim Clemente and Michael E Wood Jr... but that's probably the extent of it.

And I think I remember Susan making a sarcastic comment about his interview with "Neighbor Boy" on an episode of Undisclosed.

I had the same thought about Jim Clemente today! I bet BR's annoying the ever loving crap out of him right about now.

 

[greenbean]

So, I actually came away from the latest Undisclosed with less sympathy for Christina guitieraz than I thought was possible.

She seems pretty despicable in my eyes. What do you all think of her? I know it's in poor taste to speak ill of the dead but, meh, I'm going there anyway.

 

[hayaletcatcher]

I just finished the new EP of Undisclosed.

She was in the middle of so many "troubled" cases. I wonder, on average, how many other lawyers get those kind of complaints? With so many decisions over ruled, complaints made and reimbursement funds paid out, why wasn't all of her cases that time period looked into further? She was a ticking time bomb, it seemed people knew as they jumped ship, but nothing was done until it was too late. For more people than just Adnan.

I still go back and forth on Adnan, but Guitieraz play of things makes me think he didn't get a fair chance.

 

[cujenn81]

Yeah, the CG episode was enlightening to say the least. What was it... TWENTY NINE clients who filed complaints and received settlements because they'd hired her to file a brief and she never did? That number is staggering.