GUILTY IL - Laquan McDonald, 17, fatally shot, Chicago PD charged, 20 Oct 2014 -J. VanDyke GUILTY*

[PeregrineFaulkner]

It's so weird to me that we are still debating whether there was cause to murder this child victim.

 

[mikeysmommom]

If you have a weapon , no matter the size and you refuse to throw down your weapon when told to the officer has the right to stop you. Simple , if you obey the law you won't gets shot ! In stead of defiance listening to police will save you, should be taught to kids. I taught my son to respect police, he was in trouble and stopped hundreds of times but he survived because he was respectful. Not dropping a weapon will get you shot ! Not excusing so many shots but I can understand it. Police want to go home at the end of their shift, can you blame them? Honestly, Chicago needs the national guard with all the gangs and shootings. I have been more upset with the adults killing a 9 yr old in an alley way. No one does anything about black on black crime and seriously they need to. JMO

 

[fizzypop]

It's so weird to me that we are still debating whether there was cause to murder this child victim.

What is weird about it? That he was technically a minor (I wouldn't really say child but that's just me)? How about the fact that he was committing a crime and not following officers orders? That's what people are now debating. He had his own choice to make and he chose to not listen. Again that doesn't necessarily justify it but it does give us reason to debate it. If he had just done what he was told to do there would be no debate at all. It's that simple.

 

[bluesneakers]

It's so weird to me that we are still debating whether there was cause to murder this child victim.

Especially considering his murderer has been charged.

 

[fizzypop]

Especially considering his murderer has been charged.

With all due respect charged doesn't mean guilty. Even though I think he was (of 2nd degree, not first), that's not exactly what we're debating, at least I'm not. My point is that if the kid had done what the cops told him to and dropped the knife he either would have not been shot or still have been shot but it would be 100% clear cut that it was not justified with nothing to debate about. People need to learn to not do anything that can even give that tiny possibility of doubt about what their intentions are. Sad and maybe unfair but true. Sorry, I just don't think expecting people to drop a weapon when ordered to by the police such a horrible thing, and don't understand why they don't just do it.

 

[karen in New York]

Disagree respectfully with you. In many communities across the county, a community policing model is being used to better protect the public, police officers and non-law abiding individuals including those in a mental health crisis or under the influence of drugs etc.

The Memphis Model was developed by law enforcement and has made great strides in the communities that adopt it or a similar program. The DOJ offers technical support and financing to transform police agencies into a more current model of policing.

The principles of the model do not embrace shooting to kill as the first intervention selected. Some of the models use teams of better trained officers who can communicate verbally and deescalate the scene. There are teams of officers who are chosen to respond to specific situations based on their skill sets and training and experience.

The costs of police using fire power rather than other communication tools and interventions seems awful costly - as a tax payer I would be awfully upset if settlements and law suits were a by-product of my community's police officer's behavior. And as a parent, I would be concerned that young adults might not understand the significance of their behavior and the risks they face.

Just hope that a solution that respects many different points of view is arrived at soon.

 

[PeregrineFaulkner]

With all due respect charged doesn't mean guilty. Even though I think he was (of 2nd degree, not first), that's not exactly what we're debating, at least I'm not. My point is that if the kid had done what the cops told him to and dropped the knife he either would have not been shot or still have been shot but it would be 100% clear cut that it was not justified with nothing to debate about. People need to learn to not do anything that can even give that tiny possibility of doubt about what their intentions are. Sad and maybe unfair but true. Sorry, I just don't think expecting people to drop a weapon when ordered to by the police such a horrible thing, and don't understand why they don't just do it.

The police serve the community, not the other way around. The people give them authority, and the people can choose to collectively limit their authority. We are a democracy, not a dictatorship or a police state. If we the people say no, police don't just get to be judge, jury, and executioner, then the police must respect that. They have the ability to take armed gunmen alive, they can take a kid with a pocket knife alive if they want to. Charging police who choose to shoot non-threats is a really good way, IMO, to ensure that they want to.

 

[bluesneakers]

Bail Set At $1.5M For Officer Jason Van Dyke In Fatal Shooting Of Laquan McDonald

Officer Jason Van Dyke had been held without bail since he was charged with first-degree murder last week. At a bond hearing last Tuesday, Cook County Judge Donald Panarese Jr. said he wanted to review the police dashboard camera video recording of the shooting before setting Van Dyke’s bail.

After watching the video in court Monday, Panarese set Van Dyke’s bail at $1.5 million, meaning he must post $150,000 in cash to be released. Defense attorney Dan Herbert said he expected Van Dyke to post the required bail on Monday

 

[night train]

If you have a weapon , no matter the size and you refuse to throw down your weapon when told to the officer has the right to stop you. Simple , if you obey the law you won't gets shot ! In stead of defiance listening to police will save you, should be taught to kids. I taught my son to respect police, he was in trouble and stopped hundreds of times but he survived because he was respectful. Not dropping a weapon will get you shot ! Not excusing so many shots but I can understand it. Police want to go home at the end of their shift, can you blame them? Honestly, Chicago needs the national guard with all the gangs and shootings. I have been more upset with the adults killing a 9 yr old in an alley way. No one does anything about black on black crime and seriously they need to. JMO

BBM-

It is not acceptable to shoot and kill someone because it's getting near the end of your work shift.

 

[SCHMAE]

Two questions for those who follow here more closely than me. A ) What is the criteria for using a taser vs a firearm when it comes to LE responding to incidents ? Does that vary from department to department ? Because he did have a weapon but not a weapon that can hurt anyone until he's within arms reach , so I cannot understand why no taser or shoot him in the FOOT for pete's sake, so they can get the weapon safely. B ) I saw several days ago that this officer had many prior ' complaints' filed against him ( something in the 20s ? ) Does anyone have a list of them or was that speculative ? TIA

 

[inthedark14]

FWIW Chicago cops do not carry tasers. The supervisors (Sargents IIRC) are the only ones who have them which is why it is reported that LE was waiting for a taser to arrive.

MOO known from friends who are CPD.

 

[Cubby]

First of all, the knife was clearly not folded. You can see the glints of light off the blade in the video. It's definitely open. It also looks bigger than 3" but that's neither here nor there. I do agree that he was definitely NOT a threat to the officers at the point he was shot, I'm not debating that at all. The only reason I say the first shot was debatable is that the officer *could* have thought given his "determination" or "demeanor" whatever you want to call it, coupled with the knife out and possibly other aspects of his behavior, maybe he worried he was a threat to the public. That part I don't know. But every shot after that first one that spun him around and knocked him down was completely unnecessary. I agree the officer should be charged and convicted with something. I don't think 1st Degree murder was the right call, but hopefully the jury will have the option of convicting of 2nd degree or even manslaughter if they don't find it was 1st Degree. The cop couldn't have premeditated this, he didn't wait long enough for one thing, he didn't know who they were going to find when they answered the call for the break ins, etc... I definitely think he needs to be prosecuted though and his action was not right.

That said there are a lot of people to be disappointed in in this situation. The kid could have listened to the cops. The city could have done the right thing and fired the guy. They could have given the family the $5m but not treated it as hush money as it seems like they did. The family could have demanded justice so that this cop could have been dealt with earlier, especially since there is video evidence. I am not blaming here, I'm just saying lots of things could have been done differently in this case, the way they did it just gives anyone who is already suspicious of the police (and government) fuel for their fire. Cops are not perfect and when they do screw up they should be dealt with accordingly. I know they are only human but they also should be held to a higher standard and when they do something bad it should not be swept under the rug. They need more transparency.

The blade didn't need to be open to reflect glints of light, ever see a silver knife? Nail clippers are silver and could reflect light. A closed silver knife could reflect light.

 

[Cubby]

In this day and age it is inexcusable, imo, for Chicago cops not to have tasers. I wonder how many tasers 5 million could buy. It's time to equip LEO with current technology and training instead of paying out these multi million dollar payouts due to police incompetency.

 

[Cubby]

Van Dyke posted bond and was released from jail earlier this evening

http://abc7chicago.com/news/jason-van-dyke-bail-set-at-$15-million-/1103665/

 

[magnolia]

The blade didn't need to be open to reflect glints of light, ever see a silver knife? Nail clippers are silver and could reflect light. A closed silver knife could reflect light.

Do you have an explanation for why McDonald was holding a closed knife away from him, in an upright position?

 

[i.b.nora]

The Mayor has fired the Police Chief.

ETA: Correction, the Mayor has asked the Police Chief to resign.

 

[bluesneakers]

Do we know when Emanuel first saw the video?

Chicago Police Superintendent Is Fired

Mayor Rahm Emanuel fired Chicago’s police superintendent on Tuesday, after the city’s police department came under fire for resisting, for more than a year, release of a video showing an officer shooting a teenager 16 times.

“He has become an issue rather than dealing with an issue,” Mr. Emanuel said of the police chief, Garry F. McCarthy.

But the biggest blow to the department came with the recent release of dashboard camera video of the Oct. 14, 2014, shooting of Laquan McDonald, 17, by Officer Jason Van Dyke. The department had refused for over a year to make the video public, and protesters have been calling for Mr. McCarthy’s dismissal.

Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago, left, and police Superintendent Garry McCarthy announcing first-degree murder charges against the police officer who shot Laquan McDonald.

Officer Van Dyke has been charged with murder.

 

[i.b.nora]

We don't know when he saw the video. Either way, if he saw it shortly after the killing happened, or he didn't see it until it was released to the public, he failed in his duty as a leader in Chicago. In the end, he should be the next to go, imo. Then, the State's attorney, who according to Lyn Sweet is up for reelection early next year, so the voters themselves can dump her.

I have never been particularly fond of Rahm Emanuel. He has never struck me as a "leader" type person. He is more like a little dictator, in my eyes. He is not an "idea" person, he is more of a "spin" person. Not likeable, not a leader, and not trustworthy, imo.

Now he has put together a "Task Force" to do essentially what has already been done by the 21st Century Task Force.

Brilliant!!! (sarcastic).

And, there is another case that sounds similiar that is rising to the forefront. Keep an eye on it!

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/54054772-story

Chicago mom wants city to see video of her son being shot by police

As anger grows over the Laquan McDonald case, FOX 32 has learned there's another police shooting captured on dash cam video that the city is refusing to release. This one occurred just days before McDonald’s murder in October of 2014.
By: Dane Placko
POSTED:NOV 25 2015 09:27AM CST
UPDATED:NOV 27 2015 06:44AM CST
CHICAGO (FOX 32 News)

On Wednesday, Aldertrack broke the story that there is another dashcam video that's been held in limbo of a shooting that happened just eight days before the death of McDonald.

On Monday, Ald. David Moore and Ald. Michael Scott Jr. asked the Mayor Rahm Emanuel if there were any other videos of police involved shootings floating out there and he said he didn’t know.​

 

[bluesneakers]

I have a feeling we'll be starting another thread soon.

On the night he was killed, Johnson was riding in a car with friends when it was pulled over by police at 53rd Street and South King Drive. Johnson tried to run and was pursued by officers on foot, none of whom opened fire, Oppenheimer said.

During the chase, Officer George Hernandez, a tactical officer in the Grand Crossing District, pulled up in an unmarked squad car and jumped out with his gun drawn. Within two seconds, he fired at Johnson as he was still running away, striking him in the back of the knee and again in the back shoulder, where the bullet severed Johnson's jugular vein and exited his eye socket, Oppenheimer said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...icago-police-shooting-met-20151201-story.html

(This is about the other dashcam video mentioned above.)

 

[Woodland]

It's getting a little warm behind the scenes in Chicago.