GUILTY IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 #4

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bluesneakers said:
That's what I was confused about. The way I was reading it seemed to be saying two different things and it wasn't making sense at all. But now I see it's enhancement vs. murder.

Tbh I had to read most of your comment out loud to get it.

Thank you for your patience. :)
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I hear ya! It can be confusing until you break it down, and even then there are a zillion "what if's".

A very simplified, basic breakdown of the statutes:

Murder -- unborn child as an independent victim

Knowledge - Y
Intent - Y
Viability - Y
Causation ("but for") - Y

Enhancement to a murder or attempted murder sentence where mother is the primary victim

Knowledge - N
Intent - N
Viability - N
Causation ("but for") - Y
 
bessie said:
https://drive.google.com/viewerng/v...ylor-Jalen-Watson-Sexual-assault-Dec-2015.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/291143533/Affidavit-of-Probable-Cause-in-Amanda-Blackburn-Case
4
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Finally got some time to catch up here.....

Thanks for posting Bessie! I agree that was difficult to read!

Some points I picked up while reading that are of interest to me:
1. The Nov 3rd victims car was not recovered until after the Amanda's murder. Could this vehicle be the vehicle used to transport the goods from the 2830 house? If so, WHO was driving??? If so, was this the SUV that was caught on security surveillance?

2. from the PC affidavit....a sample from the underpants of {blocked out}...wait...the PC states the Nov 3rd victim was taking a shower and was not allowed to dress. Who's underpants??? Doesn't sound like the victim
of Nov 3rd as this individual was undressed the whole time the crimes were being committed. Could this be
AB? The PC goes on to say..LT's T-STR profile is consistent with the Y-STR profile obtained from multiple
intimate samples from {blacked out}.

I'm certainly don't possess to be an expert on forensics...if someone with experience can chime in..and clue me in, I would be grateful. I assume they obtain the victims DNA as well to differentiate between the victim and the perp? Are they referring to Nov 3rd victim's DNA on the underpants???

Sorry, just a novice here..learning..

This is very sad circumstances..poor AB and her family...that poor girl from Nov 3rd...My heart goes out to all that were affected by these perps. Glad they are where they belong.

Keep up all the good work you all do here!!

Merry Christmas to all!
 
Good catch, BCA. Could it be underpants the rape victim put on to go across the hall and call mom/911? But I would think the rape kit/exam would suffice and be stronger evidence, idk. If they are Amanda's, that would be a really effective piece of evidence in this case.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Finally got some time to catch up here.....

Thanks for posting Bessie! I agree that was difficult to read!

Some points I picked up while reading that are of interest to me:
1. The Nov 3rd victims car was not recovered until after the Amanda's murder. Could this vehicle be the vehicle used to transport the goods from the 2830 house? If so, WHO was driving??? If so, was this the SUV that was caught on security surveillance?

2. from the PC affidavit....a sample from the underpants of {blocked out}...wait...the PC states the Nov 3rd victim was taking a shower and was not allowed to dress. Who's underpants??? Doesn't sound like the victim
of Nov 3rd as this individual was undressed the whole time the crimes were being committed. Could this be
AB? The PC goes on to say..LT's T-STR profile is consistent with the Y-STR profile obtained from multiple
intimate samples from {blacked out}.

I'm certainly don't possess to be an expert on forensics...if someone with experience can chime in..and clue me in, I would be grateful. I assume they obtain the victims DNA as well to differentiate between the victim and the perp? Are they referring to Nov 3rd victim's DNA on the underpants???

Sorry, just a novice here..learning..

This is very sad circumstances..poor AB and her family...that poor girl from Nov 3rd...My heart goes out to all that were affected by these perps. Glad they are where they belong.

Keep up all the good work you all do here!!

Merry Christmas to all!
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Merry Christmans, BCA!

I did a double take on the underpants, too. The affidavit makes it sound like she went running over to the neighbor's apartment undressed, but I don't think that's the case. I can only assume the victim threw on some clothes before she went across the hall, which included underpants. No other victims would be named in this affidavit.

A Y-STR profile can come only from a male subject.

Y=Y chromosome STR=short tandem repeat

Samples were taken from the underpants. A minor profile was found in one of the samples. LT's DNA profile matched the minor profile from the victim's underpants. (In my head I'm hearing the guy's voice from Forensic Files ;)) Victim's DNA would have been a major profile.

Samples also were taken from the victim's body (intimate samples). LT's DNA (Y-STR) profile was a match to minor profiles from those samples, as well.

My prayers are with Amanda's family today, especially her little boy who should be enjoying Christmas with his mommy. And also with the Nov. 3 victim because her life has been shattered, too. So yes, thank goodness they are locked up, and let's hope there are no more victims yet to be named.
 
Thanks Bessie for clarifying for me. I do recall reading the victim put on clothes to go to the neighbor's. I'm guessing most likely that is the answer and it is not Amanda's.

Everyone have a wonderful Christmas!
 
bessie said:
Merry Christmans, BCA!

I did a double take on the underpants, too. The affidavit makes it sound like she went running over to the neighbor's apartment undressed, but I don't think that's the case. I can only assume the victim threw on some clothes before she went across the hall, which included underpants. No other victims would be named in this affidavit.

A Y-STR profile can come only from a male subject.

Y=Y chromosome STR=short tandem repeat

Samples were taken from the underpants. A minor profile was found in one of the samples. LT's DNA profile matched the minor profile from the victim's underpants. (In my head I'm hearing the guy's voice from Forensic Files ;)) Victim's DNA would have been a major profile.

Samples also were taken from the victim's body (intimate samples). LT's DNA (Y-STR) profile was a match to minor profiles from those samples, as well.

My prayers are with Amanda's family today, especially her little boy who should be enjoying Christmas with his mommy. And also with the Nov. 3 victim because her life has been shattered, too. So yes, thank goodness they are locked up, and let's hope there are no more victims yet to be named.
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Thanks for this explanation. I had to read it more than a few times to get it :)
 
pappa rob said:
How does something seem "too random to be random"? I had doubts about a lot of things after it happened, not so many now. I love the thought though, I may have to steal that for a song title..:drumroll:
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Ok, so, the thing I was trying to place as far as what I was thinking about when I wrote "too random to be random" -- home invasions are not random. I was reminded of this watching Homicide Hunter w/Lt. Joe Kenda [he said it himself]... I was trying to say basically, it isn't random... I think usually home invaders watch the house for some time before attempting/completing their crime. Also, in the case of Israel Keyes, he admitted that he watched victims for a while and selected targets based on home layout ...that's not random; he also did lots of other non-random things while selecting & victimizing people.
 
jane_tennison said:
Ok, so, the thing I was trying to place as far as what I was thinking about when I wrote "too random to be random" -- home invasions are not random. I was reminded of this watching Homicide Hunter w/Lt. Joe Kenda [he said it himself]... I was trying to say basically, it isn't random... I think usually home invaders watch the house for some time before attempting/completing their crime. Also, in the case of Israel Keyes, he admitted that he watched victims for a while and selected targets based on home layout ...that's not random; he also did lots of other non-random things while selecting & victimizing people.
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Why is this crime so random ? It appears they followed a similar formula to the 11/3 rape. Difference is that amanda struggled and went after him. Is that random ?

They went to a house on a cul de sac that we have learned is actually common. The chose unforced entry, which is said to be extremely common. They appeared to have a plan as they drove a stolen car to the crime. They brought guns, which seemed to be put to use at the 11/3 rape/burglary.

I get that it can seem random if you discard that they were burglars who did this seemingly regularly.

We don't know that the house wasn't cased. We do know that they were able to get in and out of 2 houses there without police arriving at the scene, even though people saw them and shots and screams were heard. How random is that ? Maybe they knew there weren't going to be many home at that time.


So I don't personally think it's all that random in terms of what burglars/criminals do. They look for opportunities and that's what this was and thats what the 11/3 rape was, and that's what the burglary earlier in the morning was as well.

Should we assume that burglars burglarize their neighbors in a 1 mile radius ?

So, the more we know about this crime, the more we'd likely find it wasn't random. For example if there are 3 cars in Davey's driveway and lights are on and music is playing, do they still go in ?

But what we know is that davey left, which they might or might not have seen. No cars in the driveway. It's the 3rd house on that street they attempt to enter. Possibly lights are off.

sounds alot like being opportunistic up to that point. Why not skip a house and go to the one after blackburns ? that would be more random. right ?
 
jane_tennison said:
Ok, so, the thing I was trying to place as far as what I was thinking about when I wrote "too random to be random" -- home invasions are not random. I was reminded of this watching Homicide Hunter w/Lt. Joe Kenda [he said it himself]... I was trying to say basically, it isn't random... I think usually home invaders watch the house for some time before attempting/completing their crime. Also, in the case of Israel Keyes, he admitted that he watched victims for a while and selected targets based on home layout ...that's not random; he also did lots of other non-random things while selecting & victimizing people.
Click to expand...

Thanks for following up. I agree that Amanda's house was picked out for a reason (looked like no one was home, etc), so the crime wasn't random, if we define "random" as there being no reason for picking it other than a mental "coin toss." Personally, I don't think they spent much time casing the neighborhood that morning. Choosing those houses was an impulsive decision made quickly for a reason (ease of entry, etc). But it was random in that it wasn't personal toward Amanda or Davey IMO. We have to be careful how we define random.

Of course, there is always the possibility that they saw Davey leave and figured there might be a wife left behind who could be raped and killed (since that's what one of them was all about). So that wouldn't be random (for no reason), but it would be impersonal. JMO
 
Lilibet said:
Thanks for following up. I agree that Amanda's house was picked out for a reason (looked like no one was home, etc), so the crime wasn't random, if we define "random" as there being no reason for picking it other than a mental "coin toss." Personally, I don't think they spent much time casing the neighborhood that morning. Choosing those houses was an impulsive decision made quickly for a reason (ease of entry, etc). But it was random in that it wasn't personal toward Amanda or Davey IMO. We have to be careful how we define random.

Of course, there is always the possibility that they saw Davey leave and figured there might be a wife left behind who could be raped and killed (since that's what one of them was all about). So that wouldn't be random (for no reason), but it would be impersonal. JMO
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I was just getting ready to post a similar thought, Lilibet... It seems these guys were opportunists, not much seemed to deter them, however, there does seem to be one commonality to their known crime stats (refer to Bessie's post #403) and that is the absence of male occupants/presence at all 4 locations. Coincidence? Idk, but it does persuade me to believe DB was likely spotted leaving that morning, making that house selection a little less random, than if not. Same thought goes to the first crime, doesn't the fact that the perps (somehow) knew her boyfriend was at work make that crime more of an opportunity than some random event?

I think these were criminals who took advantage of opportunities that were presented to them during the course of a random crime spree...lol, how's that for a little head scratcher? (;

All jmo.
 
heidisams said:
I was just getting ready to post a similar thought, Lilibet... It seems these guys were opportunists, not much seemed to deter them, however, there does seem to be one commonality to their known crime stats (refer to Bessie's post #403) and that is the absence of male occupants/presence at all 4 locations. Coincidence? Idk, but it does persuade me to believe DB was likely spotted leaving that morning, making that house selection a little less random, than if not. Same thought goes to the first crime, doesn't the fact that the perps (somehow) knew her boyfriend was at work make that crime more of an opportunity than some random event?

I think these were criminals who took advantage of opportunities that were presented to them during the course of a random crime spree...lol, how's that for a little head scratcher? (;

All jmo.
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BBM

So would that be "randomly opportunistic" or "opportunistically random"? LOL ;)

I hadn't thought about the fact that they chose targets where no man was present.
That's very significant. And as you point out, seeing DB leave would certainly present an opportunity among the random homes in the seemingly random neighborhood.
JMO
 
Lilibet said:
Of course, there is always the possibility that they saw Davey leave and figured there might be a wife left behind who could be raped and killed (since that's what one of them was all about). So that wouldn't be random (for no reason), but it would be impersonal. JMO
Click to expand...

From everything I've read so far, I believe that's exactly what happened.
 
Lilibet said:
BBM

So would that be "randomly opportunistic" or "opportunistically random"? LOL ;)

I hadn't thought about the fact that they chose targets where no man was present.
That's very significant. And as you point out, seeing DB leave would certainly present an opportunity among the random homes in the seemingly random neighborhood.
JMO
Click to expand...

Too random to be random was a good song title.

A great band name - Opportunistically Random
 
Also, cul du sac home invasions are atypical... Impluse or no impulse somethin' don't gel.
 
I originally wrote "too random to be random" i.e. not random at all (a convention of written language)
 
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