Where the Avery Conspiracy Theory Falls Apart

[SoBeCzar]

Link to new interview with SA's girl friend from the documantary saying he was a monster.
http://www.hlntv.com/shows/morning-...3/steven-avery-ex-fiancee-exclusive-interview
Guilty or innocent I think he deserves a new trial. Now we have a huge mess.

 

[Sinsaint]

Perhaps - and this is simply my reading of the stress on 'rivets' - it is one thing to scatter bones about, but a rivet is significantly smaller. Planting bones including rivets seemed implausible. I guess, you would have had to be terribly meticulous in the gathering and dumping process if she was burned elsewhere and by someone else - if that makes sense?

The stress on the rivets isn't about identifying Halbach or that it's implausible for both bones and rivets to be planted... If someone were simply shoveling up the remains bones, rivets, zippers, metal buttons, ash, etc would all be scooped up and transported. The rivets are being stressed to corroborate Dassey's confession that he threw her clothing into the fire.

From my perspective the rivets are important because if tiny metal rivets were found then there is no excuse why ten substantially larger bullets (which would further corroborate Dassey's confession) weren't found. The lack of ANY bullets in that pit is something that needs to be explained.

 

[Sinsaint]

The melting temperature of lead is 621.5°F

The melting temperature of brass 1652 to 1724 °F,

The temperature to for cremation 1600–1800 °F

A) Ballistic tests cannot be done on lead bullets. We know a ballistic test was done on the bullets so it must have been jacketed.

B) If rivets survived the fire, jacketed bullets would have survived as well.

 

[Mendara]

I am one of the people who think there is a good chance Avery did kill her, but I just can't accept this because there is reasonable doubt. If you remove the fact that there was a conflict of interest and local LE was told to stay away but didn't, if you remove that, and the blood tampering, the key that was not there but there, the magical bullet so tiny it was overlooked so many times. Take that all out.

You have a piece of land that is huge, many people have access, can come in at any point to dump things, steal etc. just really exposed, with many off color men living in or around it.

You have SA a man who was about to be rich and who gained his freedom and was sort of a celebrity. He then would risk all of this to commit a real rape and murder. Maybe prison made him a killer, maybe he was always a killer.

Then if so he must of thought he was untouchable and that he would get away with it, because he did NOT even try to hide anything.

1. He told several people she was coming.

2. Police claim he had 4 days to clean up the murder scene, claiming this is why there was no blood.

3. He also had 4 days to get rid of the CAR, he didn't, instead he parks it on the outer most accessible area of his property and makes it even more obvious by clumsily throwing stuff on it and he waits for her to be reported missing. But before he does this he puts her bloody body in the trunk of her own car, then takes it out, bleeds in the car, goes back home and throws her key in his room. Leaving the car on his property, instead of driving it out somewhere.

4. Instead of transporting her body off of the property he carries her out of his house or garage and throws her body right out in the open and burns her, he invites several family members to the fire and lets everyone know he is burning garbage, a fire many people can see from the road. I don't know but I am thinking if he puts her in the fire at around 5PM there is still going to be a full body burning until the next morning and maybe even into the next day or evening.

5. He then sprinkles her burned body around his property, instead of scooping it all out and tossing it. He waits for her to be reported missing and leaves it all there, including electronics that usually don't burn.

HE LEFT ALL THE EVIDENCE THERE. He is either a real idiot (which could be) or half of that evidence was not left there by him.

I am thinking her car is a huge piece. Even if Avery didn't have a chance to remove her bones, he would have not left the car like that IMO. It is just too convenient. In my head it is very possible that someone else found that car off property and drove it back to the property to be sure that everything was in place for the conviction.

This is really disturbing, even if he did it.

 

[Mendara]

Also how amazing would it be if when things were going bad for LE if they did go and tamper with the blood, taking some out and then realized they did not have to use it, because his blood was in the car? Maybe someone was going to use it somewhere else later and didn't. Just a thought.

I think had the local LE stepped off and stayed away, he would have been convicted anyway, but I just think they could not take that chance.

OJ Simpson was released based on the lead investigator being accused of being a racist and keeping the blood evidence in his car overnight. That was enough reasonable doubt. This case with Steve Avery has so many reasons to question it.

 

[Really?]

I am one of the people who think there is a good chance Avery did kill her, but I just can't accept this without any doubts. If you remove the fact that there was a conflict of interest and local LE was told to stay away but didn't, if you remove that, and the blood tampering, the key that was not there but there, the magical bullet so tiny it was overlooked so many times. Take that all out.

You have a piece of land that is huge, many people have access, can come in at any point to dump things, steal etc. just really exposed, with many off color men living in or around it.

You have SA a man who was about to be rich and who gained his freedom and was sort of a celebrity. He then would risk all of this to commit a real rape and murder. Maybe prison made him a killer, maybe he was always a killer.

Then if so he must of thought he was untouchable and that he would get away with it, because he did NOT even try to hide anything.

1. He told several people she was coming.

2. Police claim he had 4 days to clean up the murder scene, claiming this is why there was no blood.

3. He also had 4 days to get rid of the CAR, he didn't, instead he parks it on the outer most accessible area of his property and makes it even more obvious by clumsily throwing stuff on it and he waits for her to be reported missing. But before he does this he puts her bloody body in the trunk of her own car, then takes it out, bleeds in the car, goes back home and throws her key in his room. Leaving the car on his property, instead of driving it out somewhere.

4. Instead of transporting her body off of the property he carries her out of his house or garage and throws her body right out in the open and burns her, he invites several family members to the fire and lets everyone know he is burning garbage, a fire many people can see from the road. I don't know but I thinking if he puts her in the fire at around 5PM there is still going to be a full body burning until the next morning and maybe even into the next day or evening.

5. He then sprinkles her burned body around his property, instead of scooping it all out and tossing it. He waits for her to be reported missing and leaves it all there, including electronics that usually don't burn.

HE LEFT ALL THE EVIDENCE THERE. He is either a real idiot (which could be) or half of that evidence was not left there by him.

I am thinking her car is a huge piece. Even if Avery didn't have a chance to remove her bones, he would have not left the car like that IMO. It is just too convenient. In my head it is very possible that someone else found that car off property and drove it back to the property to be sure that everything was in place for the conviction.

This is really disturbing, even if he did it.

This ^.....I nominate this for " post of the day".......thanks.

 

[pittie_mcclure]

This ^.....I nominate this for " post of the day".......thanks.

I second that. Everything I wanted to say was so jumbled in my brain but THIS is it!

 

[Madeleine74]

I am one of the people who think there is a good chance Avery did kill her, but I just can't accept this without any doubts.

The standard in a criminal trial is "beyond a reasonable doubt," not "beyond any and all doubts" and "not beyond a shadow of a doubt." There is usually a doubt about something in a case.

In a circumstantial case each piece of evidence or circumstance on its own can probably be argued away, but a jury is told to consider the totality of the evidence presented to them. At some point in many criminal cases one starts to realize that all the things that people claim are merely a coincidence that can be explained away starts to tip the balance into the realm of "that's too far to claim mere coincidence..." and that's often the path that leads to "beyond a reasonable doubt."

 

[Mendara]

The standard in a criminal trial is "beyond a reasonable doubt," not "beyond any and all doubts" and "not beyond a shadow of a doubt." There is usually a doubt about something in a case.

Then I correct my post beyond a reasonable doubt I can't be sure.

 

[Mendara]

The saddest part about watching the Netflix show was that TH was so overlooked. Seeing her family in court just listening to the back and forth about police conduct, false confessions, his previous case, the actions of LE, it made me so sad. She was lost, the victim was not the focus, the focus was AVERY vs. LE.

The fact remains that had these specific officers, had the local LE complied with the request to remain out of this, had they not twisted their way in by force and followed procedure. Perhaps the victim would have been heard and we would know what happened. Every single person played a role in this becoming a crap show.

Kratz with his perverted tale of sex torture that only lived IMO in his dirty mind, down to his description of sweaty uncle AVERY (he enjoyed telling that story). I don't even think the confession was the issue from the nephew the issue for me came when they forced him to sign that statement and the defense was working the prosecution to make sure he did - that was absolutely not okay.

Even if you think Avery is guilty and the murder took place under a different script than what was told, which could be, you must as a human being see and understand that what happened no matter what SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. The evidence thrown in a box on a desk like scrap for anyone to touch, should have bothered you. The tampering of said evidence. The players who found the evidence who had to be watched and told not to enter or be alone, and yet did and were, that should bother you. Brendan Dassey being tricked into confessing and told not to worry and him thinking he was going home after, should have scared you (if you have children).

I could go on and on. That bullet that somehow fell out of her skull in the garage and rolled (even though it was flat and damaged) under a pile of garbage that only a specific officer was able to see, the WRONG officer. How the heck would that get there! Maybe in the car, fire pit? Where there bullets in the pit??

No that bullet appeared in the SECOND murder scene, not the first one tossed around (bedroom) but the murder area that came after they couldn't explain why no blood in the bedroom.

I just cant. She Avery go free just like that because of this Netflix show? NO, should he get another trial? YES. The local LE should have been at least taken to the table about the conflict of interests being ignored at least that is to blame for this mess. IMO

 

[stephsb]

The prosecution has proved their case "beyond a reasonable doubt" if the only doubts that remain in the mind of the jury are unreasonable.

 

[sonnet33]

A lot to think about on both sides of this issue. Two questions that come to mind, that have yet to be discussed are:

1. If her remains, and clothing were disposed of in that particular fire why were they unable to find the additional rivet? They all would have been located together. It is more than highly improbable that all but one rivet would make it through the fire.

2. Why did a police officer ask to have her plate number run? From memory it was a day or two before her car was found. Not saying the police officer was responsible for her demise, it just doesn't make sense.

Both of these things add to the possibility of a frame up in my mind. Which is really disheartening to me because the experiences I've had with lo have been positive.

As a sidenote: having a bonfire or something of the sort on Halloween was more normal than not in the 90s in this area of the country. I remember many a bonfire with friends and family on Halloween night growing up in the Illinois/Michigan/Wisconsin area.

 

[Watson-1975]

Thank you "missy1974" for your statement. I'm not a die hard websleuther however, i became indulged in the discussion forums back when Tim Bosma for Ontario Canada went missing. How our local law enforcement from multiple municipalities and the provincial police handled the case was remarkable, I'm not suggesting perfection, but within the laws they uphold.

With that said i too researched as i watched the documentary on Netflix, and found some very troubling statements made by the prosecution team and the early on appointed lawyer for BD. with that said, I have read many statements on here that suggest a slated view in supporting an innocent man. From things i have read regarding the filming of the series, the prosecution and law enforcement were provided the opportunity to be apart of the series including the original members of the prosecution team and law enforcement from the 1985 conviction.

The argument of a slated position was first initiated by the Prosecution team with the public statements of the arrest and vivid and gripping story of what happened on national news, setting a stage for a tainted jury, regardless of them seeking a jury from a neighbouring county. The first appointed lawyer for BD publicly made an appearance suggesting his client was involved and under duress by his evil uncle, again tainting the potential jury pool.

IMO. I don't think either side did any favours for the pending trial of both SA and BD, with a high level of media surrounding SA the history his law suit this man didnt stand a change from the beginning to be tried fairly in a court of law.

 

[iluvmua]

I believe that SA 100% raped an killed Teresa and that BD was delt a very poor hand in all of this.

JMO

 

[Sinsaint]

The melting temperature of lead is 621.5°F

The melting temperature of brass 1652 to 1724 °F,

The temperature to for cremation 1600–1800 °F

Newhouse testified (page 205 very bottom) lead bullets in a copper coating. If Dassey is to be believed, nine or ten bullets should be found in the fire pit. By the prosecution's evidence, at least two bullets should be found in the fire pit.

Copper has a melting point of 1984 degrees Fahrenheit. Five of the six Jean rivets were found so where are the bullets?

 

[MaxManning]

Newhouse testified (page 205 very bottom) lead bullets in a copper coating. If Dassey is to be believed, nine or ten bullets should be found in the fire pit. By the prosecution's evidence, at least two bullets should be found in the fire pit.

Copper has a melting point of 1984 degrees Fahrenheit. Five of the six Jean rivets were found so where are the bullets?

We also need to verify how many rivets were on that pair of jeans. If there are more than 6, then that is another potential consistency with moving of the bones.

I have checked all my jeans, just for a reference and mostly the rivets are used on the front pockets, with 2 or 3, depending on if there are an inner pocket or not. So if there was a 3rd rivet on each front pocket, that'd be 6.

But, I have no doubt that female jeans might have far more rivets! Dasiy Fuentes was enough of a rivet lover that she put her name on them ?

 

[Sinsaint]

We also need to verify how many rivets were on that pair of jeans. If there are more than 6, then that is another potential consistency with moving of the bones.

I have checked all my jeans, just for a reference and mostly the rivets are used on the front pockets, with 2 or 3, depending on if there are an inner pocket or not. So if there was a 3rd rivet on each front pocket, that'd be 6.

But, I have no doubt that female jeans might have far more rivets! Dasiy Fuentes was enough of a rivet lover that she put her name on them ?

Someone up thread keeps saying five out of six rivets were found. So I guess one rivet and a bunch of bullets are missing. Admittedly, I have yet to read all the transcripts but I'd like to know if the zipper and front Jean button were found.

 

[Madeleine74]

According to testimony there are 6 rivets on those jeans. 5 rivets were found in the fire pit ashes.

 

[Sinsaint]

According to testimony there are 6 rivets on those jeans. 5 rivets were found in the fire pit ashes.

If the rivets were found why weren't all the bullets?

 

[Madeleine74]

If the rivets were found why weren't all the bullets?

How can anyone not involved in the crime possibly answer that?

Investigators can only work with what is and what's found; some cases have holes in them and that's reality. It really doesn't matter if bullets are or are not found because:

1. Teresa was murdered and that's undisputed
2. Teresa's remains were positively ID'd through DNA
3. Shell casings were found in the garage and those casings were consistent with being fired from rifle in SA's bedroom
4. Even if bullets were found in the ashes, what would that prove, exactly? The one bullet found eventually in the garage that had Teresa's DNA on it was not believed because it was found after a few months and the lab analyst contaminated the control sample with her own DNA in the lab.