Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

[Deeptoad]

Because I believe A that he really had nothing to do with it, Or B that he only did what SA told him. I don't believe at all that this kid was a mastermind and went after TH. I don't believe his story of the murder in the trailer and sexual assault. Not by him.

By that, is it fair to assume that you would be in favor of a new trial for BD? If that were to happen, SA would be equally entitled to one as it was BD's coerced confession from which the prosecution built its case. Can we look at BD's conviction as a miscarriage of justice and not SA's? Because the two cases are so intertwined, that would be impossible.

So, I understand you think SA is guilty and I absolutely understand why. But, if BD isn't guilty, there's a serious problem with how conviction was brought for SA.

And, I think the majority of the folks on this thread find that the most upsetting thing in all of this. I certainly know I do.

 

[CalGirl2016]

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread with regard to the vial of blood in this case. But I do know someone that is a micro-bio scientist, and this person works in a lab everyday with vials of blood and other specimens. She watched the documentary with me, and immediately she noted the top of the vile.

As it was mentioned in the documentary, each state and lab have their own way of processing items. But she said, something is wrong with that opening being so large, as if it was punctured more than once.

She also mentioned, that in her lab...they keep logs of the vial amounts drawn, stored and used etc, quite a paper trail. In other words, if blood is drawn into a 3ml vial, taking into account the other fluid already in the tube.....wouldn't they be able to tell if blood was missing from that same tube?

I haven't read anywhere that someone questioned the amount of blood remaining in the vial. I'm curious if anyone here is aware of anyone questioning the amount of blood left in the vial.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

By that, is it fair to assume that you would be in favor of a new trial for BD? If that were to happen, SA would be equally entitled to one as it was BD's coerced confession from which the prosecution built its case. Can we look at BD's conviction as a miscarriage of justice and not SA's? Because the two cases are so intertwined, that would be impossible.

So, I understand you think SA is guilty and I absolutely understand why. But, if BD isn't guilty, there's a serious problem with how conviction was brought for SA.

And, I think the majority of the folks on this thread find that the most upsetting thing in all of this. I certainly know I do.

Go ahead retry him. I think he will still be guilty because he killed her. The evidence is overwhelming.
But I really believe that BD should be free based on his own atty framing and setting him up. That atty should be disbarred if he is not already.. I could have done a better job for BD with my Law and order degree.

I don't think SA's case is all about BD. I think it is about the evidence that puts her there with him and him with her and her things.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread with regard to the vile of blood in this case. But I do know someone that is a micro-bio scientist, and this person works in a lab everyday with viles of blood and other specimens. She watched the documentary with me, and immediately she noted the top of the vile.

As it was mentioned in the documentary, each state and lab have their own way of processing items. But she said, something is wrong with that opening being so large, as if it was punctured more than once.

She also mentioned, that in her lab...they keep logs of the vile amounts drawn, stored and used etc, quite a paper trail. In other words, if blood is drawn into a 3ml vile, taking into account the other fluid already in the tube.....wouldn't they be able to tell if blood was missing from that same tube?

I haven't read anywhere that someone questioned the amount of blood remaining in the vile. I'm curious if anyone here is aware of anyone questioning the amount of blood left in the vile.

I noticed the top too.. but could that have been from it being tested in the past??? I don't know.. I would love to know how much blood was in that vial originally and now.
I believe that there is no way that the amount of blood that was in her car came from the vial and still left blood left. I believe in fact it was new blood that came from him. I am good with the test from the FBI. I know that people like to believe that everyone who ever came in contact with this case is corrupt but that is just impossible.

 

[ILoveNY607]

I noticed the top too.. but could that have been from it being tested in the past??? I don't know.. I would love to know how much blood was in that vial originally and now.
I believe that there is no way that the amount of blood that was in her car came from the vial and still left blood left. I believe in fact it was new blood that came
from him. I am good with the test from the FBI. I know that people like to believe that everyone who ever came in contact with this case is corrupt but that is just impossible.

The FBI testing of the blood was a serious problem for me. Method not properly validated. No control?? How about limit of detection? Limit of quantification? Worst was when he spoke about all 6 swabs but only tested 3. That's not a scientist...IMO.

 

[Madeleine74]

The evidence doesn't go away if you disregard BD's story:

TH's charred body bits are still found in SA's burn pit

TH's blood is still in her own SUV

SA's blood is still in TH's SUV

Cut on SA's finger on right hand, still was there.

TH's SUV was still obscured on the property

SA still had a multi-hour bonfire within 2 - 3 hours of TH disappearing

SA was with TH at the time she was last known to be alive

None of that changes; even if LE never figures out exactly what all went down, the link with TH and SA being together at that time remains.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The FBI testing of the blood was a serious problem for me. Method not properly validated. No control?? How about limit of detection? Limit of quantification? Worst was when he spoke about all 6 swabs but only tested 3. That's not a scientist...IMO.

They used to test for this and then stopped over time from what I understood from the series. So to me it does not seem odd that they knew how to do it and just did it.. or updated testing to do it.
It does not seem that insane to me to figure it out.

I don't have any issue with FBI testing at all. None.

 

[MysticJynx]

The evidence doesn't go away if you disregard BD's story:

TH's charred body bits are still found in SA's burn pit

TH's blood is still in her own SUV

SA's blood is still in TH's SUV

Cut on SA's finger on right hand, still was there.

TH's SUV was still obscured on the property

SA still had a multi-hour bonfire within 2 - 3 hours of TH disappearing

SA was with TH at the time she was last known to be alive

None of that changes; even if LE never figures out exactly what all went down, the link with TH and SA being together at that time remains.

However if her bones are found in three locations it suggests they have been moved. Making his burn pit questionable at best. Had he moved the bones to cover his tracks they wouldnt have been in his burn pit in the quantity they were in. the barrel, the grass and THE QUARRY off his property. They majority of the bones would have been found where he moved them not the other way around. Suggesting the main burn area not in his back yard. which was also testified to being not the primary burn area. You believe the one anthropologist for the state but not the rebuttal. And If they can prove that less then 1 milliliter of blood less than a tsp of blood was from that tube. And if that was planted most likely the car was too then what do you have?

all you have is a guy who had a bonfire on Halloween and cut his finger and she was there at some point to take pictures.

I still dont know how she drove 40 mins to GZ's did her appointment making her there around 2:25 at GZ's residence how could she be 10 mins out then. she would have just been arriving or in the middle of her pictures when Auto trader talked to her at 2:27. Took about 50 mins from the first location to Avery's Yard. Making it 2:35 about the time shed be arriving at the Junk Yard, making that Auto trader call more sensible. She couldnt be in two places at once and evidence points to her being at the Averys around 2:30. Which would make that her second to last stop.

 

[MysticJynx]

I think she was whacked at some point while she was standing at her cargo area and that is how the blood got on the inside of the rear door. That is how the blood transfer got from her hair on to the back cargo panel and floor near that area. Someone came up behind her as she was doing something back there and whacked her on the head pushed her into her own cargo area and took off with her unconscious in the back. And possibly took her to the quarry to do the deed. That is the beginning of my theory. Who did it I do not know. But they left the evidence at the quarry and thats when the cops had opportunity to plant the evidence all over steven averys yard to be noticed. So that the evidence would not could not be missed.

When was her car in that accident that put her light in the back of the cargo area?

 

[Madeleine74]

However if her bones are found in three locations it suggests they have been moved.

Moved, scattered, yes. However, it doesn't point to: "so LE killed TH or somehow found her body and then burned her and scattered her bits." And yet, that theory has been suggested more than a few times.

In fact, if you are some other killer why would you need to scatter bones around? Why would you care? And how exactly did you manage to get steel belts from burned tires entwined in TH's bones? Who would have informed you that SA was burning steel belted tires that very night that TH disappeared?

There is nothing that suggests the main burn area is somewhere else. That's a theory but there's no evidence. Where was the fire held when TH disappeared? Why disregard that?

SA was with TH around the time of her disappearance, that's a fact that cannot be disputed. That alone makes him a suspect...it would have to!

 

[MysticJynx]

Moved, scattered, yes. However, it doesn't point to: "so LE killed TH or somehow found her body and then burned her and scattered her bits." And yet, that theory has been suggested more than a few times.

In fact, if you are some other killer why would you need to scatter bones around? Why would you care? And how exactly did you manage to get steel belts from burned tires entwined in TH's bones? Who would have informed you that SA was burning steel belted tires that very night that TH disappeared?

There is nothing that suggests the main burn area is somewhere else. That's a theory but there's no evidence. Where was the fire held when TH disappeared? Why disregard that?

SA was with TH around the time of her disappearance, that's a fact that cannot be disputed. That alone makes him a suspect...it would have to!

When did she go by GZs residence?
first residence was in New Holstein.
Map from first to GZ's https://www.google.com/maps/dir/443...7be2e2aa609f974!2m2!1d-88.122485!2d43.9207541

or did she go by Avery's
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Ave...7be2e2aa609f974!2m2!1d-88.122485!2d43.9207541

 

[Madeleine74]

I read somewhere (can't remember where now) that Avery's was the 3rd stop. Whether she had more appointments I don't know. My impression is she did not, but again, I don't know for sure.

 

[MysticJynx]

In fact, if you are some other killer why would you need to scatter bones around? Why would you care? And how exactly did you manage to get steel belts from burned tires entwined in TH's bones? Who would have informed you that SA was burning steel belted tires that very night that TH disappeared?

Respectfully snipped by me.

First the killer didnt spread her bones around. The framers did. they did so cause on that morning of the 5th when there was a change of plans to go there. They knew that car was there and would be noticed. the intended to go with the search party that morning. They knew after they got the search warrant they wanted those bones found so they dumped them in the pit over the steel belts from the tire. then they used a shovel to mix it in good and pull a few bones to put outside of the fire pit to be seen. They put the plates in a station wagon. Looking in through the window of a station wagon you would noticeably see those plates. Just had to point a volunteer in that direction. Think it was a Volunteer Fireman. in my opinion he is just a private citizen and shouldnt have been on the lot. if a volunteer fire man was on the lot was there any volunteer MPSD on site. Such as the juror who served on Avery's jury.

below the steel belts??? i believe dumping bones on that could intertwine them.

Notice for such a hot fire that could burn a body that screw driver looks like its in good condition.

I would like to know where the pictures are of what was known as the QUARRY PILE! does that mean there was a fire pit there? Pile of what only 2 bones, they did take evidence from there. they did find a blood stain there of an unknown male.

Remember they didnt do the right thing by Teresa either. They should have taken better photo evidence had the place on a grid tagged each and every bone with a tent and taken pictures just as they did with the bullet in the garage. Why did the refuse this normal procedure and why did they not let the corner know. its not like they were afraid of a conflict of interest having the officers there that were the conflict of interest.

Not just have people SHOVEL her into boxes and sifted out at another area. that is not the procedure and if my families bones were treated with no care and concern by these people I can't believe they cared about her at all. And if I had known I'd have them stop till they did it with care. Had I found out about it at trial I would have sued. Teresa should have been handled with care.

 

[Sinsaint]

Moved, scattered, yes. However, it doesn't point to: "so LE killed TH or somehow found her body and then burned her and scattered her bits." And yet, that theory has been suggested more than a few times.

In fact, if you are some other killer why would you need to scatter bones around? Why would you care? And how exactly did you manage to get steel belts from burned tires entwined in TH's bones? Who would have informed you that SA was burning steel belted tires that very night that TH disappeared?

There is nothing that suggests the main burn area is somewhere else. That's a theory but there's no evidence. Where was the fire held when TH disappeared? Why disregard that?

SA was with TH around the time of her disappearance, that's a fact that cannot be disputed. That alone makes him a suspect...it would have to!

Why would you need to scatter bones around? Let's see, if you're the killer you would put the bones in a location that pointed to someone other than you and you would scatter them around to ensure searchers wouldn't overlook them.

So what he had a fire that night? It was a planned event where other guests were invited to attend. Her remains were found in his fire pit. Pfft... I have a burn pit in my yard and have no clue what is in it. I assume only things I've burned but it's certainly a possibility other people could dump things in there. I don't monitor my burn pit 24/7.

 

[Sustained]

The evidence doesn't go away if you disregard BD's story:

TH's charred body bits are still found in SA's burn pit

TH's blood is still in her own SUV

SA's blood is still in TH's SUV

Cut on SA's finger on right hand, still was there.

TH's SUV was still obscured on the property

SA still had a multi-hour bonfire within 2 - 3 hours of TH disappearing

SA was with TH at the time she was last known to be alive

None of that changes; even if LE never figures out exactly what all went down, the link with TH and SA being together at that time remains.

Even those with a 70 IQ can have some common sense. For me, it's hard to believe ...

1) Avery would kill TH knowing that Auto Trader and possibly others knew her schedule
2) Avery would kill her on Halloween, the one day that younger children might be treat-or-treating before dark
3) Avery would move and leave her car in the salvage yard instead of disposing of it late at night off property or crushing it
4) Avery would get BD involved, knowing BD might squeal to his mother
5) Avery would cleanup the crime scene, but leave blood in TH car
6) Avery would kill TH the day before the Avery Bill was to be signed into law from which he would undoubtedly get publicity
7) Avery would burn her body/cell phone/purse in a bonfire right behind his house knowing that body parts/other evidence might be found
8) Avery would take off the license plates, but keep the ignition key in his trailer
9) Avery would kill her on the Avery property knowing that other Avery family members might hear or see something

 

[Madeleine74]

Prisons are filled with people who should have known better but didn't. To say what SA would have thought, would have done, would have understood, is a fallacy. It's a projection by the person opining, based on their own set of standards and thoughts.

I go to Occam's Razor. To me that's a good place to start. If one is starting with conspiracy, then they have a specific agenda not to consider any other scenario. To me conspiracy is not a starting place.

 

[Sustained]

Respectfully snipped by me.

First the killer didnt spread her bones around. The framers did. they did so cause on that morning of the 5th when there was a change of plans to go there. They knew that car was there and would be noticed. the intended to go with the search party that morning. They knew after they got the search warrant they wanted those bones found so they dumped them in the pit over the steel belts from the tire. then they used a shovel to mix it in good and pull a few bones to put outside of the fire pit to be seen. They put the plates in a station wagon. Looking in through the window of a station wagon you would noticeably see those plates. Just had to point a volunteer in that direction. Think it was a Volunteer Fireman. in my opinion he is just a private citizen and shouldnt have been on the lot. if a volunteer fire man was on the lot was there any volunteer MPSD on site. Such as the juror who served on Avery's jury.

Does anyone know if TH's license plates were dusted for prints ?

 

[Madeleine74]

I read the plates were folded in half. This may have been in the Dassey trial transcripts. That means it was not obvious those were TH's SUV's plates until the plates were taken out of the vehicle they were placed in and unfolded.

 

[missy1974]

They used to test for this and then stopped over time from what I understood from the series. So to me it does not seem odd that they knew how to do it and just did it.. or updated testing to do it.
It does not seem that insane to me to figure it out.

I don't have any issue with FBI testing at all. None.

From what I understand.... this test was used twice in a court of law.... First time was in OJ's case. Second, this one.

 

[MysticJynx]

I read somewhere (can't remember where now) that Avery's was the 3rd stop. Whether she had more appointments I don't know. My impression is she did not, but again, I don't know for sure.

How can you be in two places at one time tho. if she was at Avery's as the state has you believe at 2:30 you have to believe that she drove first to Avery from her first appointment. According to google maps that is at least a 50-55 minute drive to him. Had she left the first appointment in New Holstein WI, at 1:40-1:45 she really Didn't have time to drive the 40-45 to GZ do her job and then be on the road at 2:27 when she got the call from Auto Trader at 2:27pm. Do the math had it take her 40 mins she would have been at the 2nd residence for 5 mins before being on the road. Thats barely enough time to get out of the car collect her camera gear greet the customer and be shown the car. Since it would have taken longer to get to the Avery residence from the first location, about 50 mins, had she left the first residence in New Holstein she would have been in her car just a few minutes out from the Avery lot. Meaning he was not the last to see her alive. State wants you to believe Teresa was not professional, she rushed her appointments and speeds to get to each of them to be in their time "frame".
This of course is my opinion, concluded with simple math, google maps and common sense. Something is off from the very beginning even the state seems to be framing the time to fit SA as being the last to see her alive.
Cause if she did leave and visit GZ last what would that mean about their theory?