MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 ; Quinton Tellis Indicted - #12

[rbarber17]

<snip>
In the People TL, LEO is informing the public that they now know who Jessica was with during that (missing) hour. They did not claim to know where she was during that hour of 6:30-7:32.

The ambush, to use People's word, began at 7:32.
<snip>

Then either:
(1) LE does -now- know where Jessica was that hour, or
(2) The person LE -now- knows she was with isn't talking.

Why does LE -now- know who she was with when they didn't seem to know before? Perhaps some 17 strange bedfellows were busy rolling over on each other during their all-expense-paid vacation over the Christmas holidays? Or perhaps some inquisitive PEOPLE magazine reporters squeezed out some information LE had been unwilling to share before they slipped up?

More questions than answers, sorry.

JMO

 

[rbarber17]

Listen to the first two minutes of this interview of a smiling Ali. The first thing he tells us is that he has been cleared. Then, he can't decide how long it was after he saw Jessica and when he saw her burned car. Was it 90 minutes or 3 hours?
<clip snipped>

Good catch, DeDee. So, if smiling Ali was referring to last seeing Jessica at the M&M, his initial three hours comment was correct. But if he was referring to last seeing her at the CS, then his follow up 90 minutes, at the reporter's prompting, was correct. Did I detect a little grin after Ali accepted the corrected TL? A little duping delight? But then, maybe I'm reading something into it. Ali seemed pretty light-hearted the whole interview. Why I'm not sure. Some folks process their grief differently.

JMO

 

[rbarber17]

Here's a great little article on "duping delight" for those unfamiliar with the term:
http://familyarrested.com/what-is-duping-delight/

Joyce, the author, has some excellent responses to comments made at the end. Don't pass them up.
:secret::dance::liar:

 

[Vedder]

How could the car and Jessica be on fire for 30 minutes, and she still be alive when the first responders arrived? 30 minutes is a long time. Wouldn't the trees near the car have caught fire? Even if not, I cannot possible fathom a person being on fire for 30 minutes and not dying before those 30 minutes were up.

 

[rbarber17]

Here's a great little article on "duping delight" for those unfamiliar with the term:
http://familyarrested.com/what-is-duping-delight/

Joyce, the author, has some excellent responses to comments made at the end. Don't pass them up.
:secret::dance::liar:

Not to keep banging the same drum, but watch for the "smirk" in this interview of ME by Therese Apel (Clarion-Ledger) a few days after Jessica's murder -- still my #1 suspect since RH's passing:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-County-6-Dec-2014-11&p=12230133#post12230133

JMO

 

[BirdycatNY]

How could the car and Jessica be on fire for 30 minutes, and she still be alive when the first responders arrived? 30 minutes is a long time. Wouldn't the trees near the car have caught fire? Even if not, I cannot possible fathom a person being on fire for 30 minutes and not dying before those 30 minutes were up.

LE/ATF would be able to determine where the fire started, ignited, right? This is a terrible thought but either Jessica was last to start on fire or maybe she was able to get herself out of car (if she was in car), or as I think DeDee? speculated JC was tied to tree. If Jessica quickly got out of car and drop/rolled then possibly she was on the ground for majority of 30 minutes, and the car would still burn @30 mins on. Idk and it's something I wonder about as well. Jmo/

 

[MizStery]

I am still trying to reconcile Ben's comment that Jessica's car was burning for at least 30 minutes before the fire department was called. Now,I am trying to figure out the first fire and where it all fits??

<snipped>
On Jessica's FB page early on someone commented vaguely that step-brother Chris Hudson drove a loud souped-up looking Z71 pickup.
<snipped>
Please not not repost unless linked to Webseluths.These are my thoughts and no one else's.
:cow:

As to my second red highlighted statement in the second paragraph.
I am correcting the sentence to read loud souped up Z71 pickup.Not knowing much about vehicle models I just saw "Z" in my database and thought immediately of a Nissan car. But,apon rereading I caught my mistake.

How could the car and Jessica be on fire for 30 minutes, and she still be alive when the first responders arrived? 30 minutes is a long time. Wouldn't the trees near the car have caught fire? Even if not, I cannot possible fathom a person being on fire for 30 minutes and not dying before those 30 minutes were up.

Now,to my first red highlighted sentence in the first paragraph. The TL!

I am trying to reconcile the TL. Justin Turner said the first fire was an hour before he was toned on the Herron Road car fire. (I discussed this in a post a few pages back)But,now we have to adjust the timeline to subtract 30 min. This TL is going to be the death of me.

That is not very much time between the first and second events is it? I have said jesting how the Herron Road fire and Ali and the SM grapevine almost seemlessly merge. Now,it seems that the TL between the 'First and Second Fires' Are going to collide. Range early on had a quote that the 'fire' made it difficult to manufacture an alibi. Well,I think we are very close to finding out what a prophet (Ranch)was.

Any thoughts?

I am still massaging the TL.

HELP PLEASE I am so confused

:cow:

 

[carbuff]

A person can be enjoying their time in the limelight (and possibly being glad somebody else is gone) without being guilty of anything more nefarious. I don't know whether I think that's a guilty smirk or not. It could even be a nervous smirk, I suppose.

 

[rbarber17]

A person can be enjoying their time in the limelight (and possibly being glad somebody else is gone) without being guilty of anything more nefarious. I don't know whether I think that's a guilty smirk or not. It could even be a nervous smirk, I suppose.

carbuff:

If you look at ME's smirk taken by itself, then I'll agree.

But if you'll look at what went on in that person's life -before- (registered as a Sex Offender) and -after- (incarcerated for admitting to arson and assault) he made that on-camera smirk, or reflexive half-smile, or call it what you will, then it begins to take on a more sinister undertone.

JMO

 

[carbuff]

carbuff:

If you look at ME's smirk taken by itself, then I'll agree.

But if you'll look at what went on in that person's life -before- (registered as a Sex Offender) and -after- (incarcerated for admitting to arson and assault) he made that on-camera smirk, or reflexive half-smile, or call it what you will, then it begins to take on a more sinister undertone.

JMO

I certainly don't think he should be taken off the list of suspects. I'm just not convinced his expression is evidence.

 

[DeDee]

Here's a great little article on "duping delight" for those unfamiliar with the term:
http://familyarrested.com/what-is-duping-delight/

Joyce, the author, has some excellent responses to comments made at the end. Don't pass them up.
:secret::dance::liar:

Thank you, I think, Inspector, for leading us to this duping delight article. I learned quite a bit. For instance, my CPA will say something to me, with a straight face while looking into my eyes, usually mentioning something that is not good news. Then, he gives this little boy grin for just a moment or two. Well, not long ago when we met, he did the same thing when informing me of a line item in my budget that is way over budget and the year had just begun. Then, he gave that same innocent grin that lasted for just a moment or so. I informed him, "I don't like it when you announce bad news and then smile about it." He laughed a little. When things settled a bit he explained that what he had said was the truth. And it was. Now, I'm wondering if my CPA is a sociopath. Oh, dear!

:scared: :scared: :scared:

In Jessica's case, we suspect both Ali and ME of exposing themselves with their duping delight.

 

[DeDee]

Like, Madame MizStery, the TimeLine makes me ullhair: ullhair: ullhair: This is DA John Champion's February press conference, that includes reporter Michael Clark, announcing the new TL. MC, as you may recall, was the one who first discovered the CCTV at M&Ms. Posted by The Commercial Appeal:

[video=youtube;QUiJZiAE_LU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUiJZiAE_LU[/video]


Listen at the 01:35 mark when the DA explains that they know where Jessica was at 6:00 before she arrives in B'ville at 6:15 as she is seen on a photograph from another video source. A private video source could be someone's cellular phone. It was at the private residence, in Courtland, where she stopped after leaving M&Ms! And all of this time, I thought the private video source was from B'ville. :doh:

At the 3:15 mark, a reporter asks if there may have been illegal criminal activity that lured Jessica to that spot. The DA answers, "No."

We've never had any proof, whatsoever, that Jessica abused heavy drugs, especially after returning from Leah's House. To the contrary, she was cleaning up her life, working (part-time) at Goody's and preparing to go to college. Oh, and she was writing a book.

In the video interview, the DA only admits that Ali as having been cleared thus far. The first responders arrive at 8:14 and Ali snaps a picture of her incinerated car on the tow truck at 9:30. That was due to the sheriff's order. The DA does not visit the CS until Sunday afternoon.

What is annoying is that the reporters totally ignore the claim that LD was speaking to Jessica between 6:48 and 7:13 during the "missing" hour. Maybe he informed them ahead of time not to mention it as it is part of their ongoing investigation. Does anyone remember when LEO took LDs phone as evidence?
** Note LD also said she and Jessica spoke between 6:48 and 7:08 in her interview with Tricia on Jan. 15, 2015.

** http://www.truecrimeradio.com/radio-archives/beth-karas-lisa-chambers-radio-archive-january-2015/

My feeling about that "text and call" with Jessica, during the missing hour, was mentioned just so LD could tell the public that Jessica said, "I love you, momma." jmho Let that sink in.

We must ask ourselves why did the DA call the press conference. What was his purpose? What was his intention? Obviously, it was to announce the "missing hour". I feel it was to alert whomever Jessica was with during that hour that they were on to them. What do you guys think was his reason?

 

[MizStery]

Like, Madame MizStery, the TimeLine makes me ullhair: ullhair: ullhair:

<snipped>

In the video interview, the DA only admits that Ali as having been cleared thus far. The first responders arrive at 8:14 and Ali snaps a picture of her incinerated car on the tow truck at 9:30. That was due to the sheriff's order. The DA does not visit the CS until Sunday afternoon.

What is annoying is that the reporters totally ignore the claim that LD was speaking to Jessica between 6:48 and 7:13 during the "missing" hour. Maybe he informed them ahead of time not to mention it as it is part of their ongoing investigation. Does anyone remember when LEO took LDs phone as evidence?
** Note LD also said she and Jessica spoke between 6:48 and 7:08 in her interview with Tricia on Jan. 15, 2015.

** http://www.truecrimeradio.com/radio-archives/beth-karas-lisa-chambers-radio-archive-january-2015/

My feeling about that "text and call" with Jessica, during the missing hour, was mentioned just so LD could tell the public that Jessica said, "I love you, momma." jmho Let that sink in.

We must ask ourselves why did the DA call the press conference. What was his purpose? What was his intention? Obviously, it was to announce the "missing hour". I feel it was to alert whomever Jessica was with during that hour that they were on to them. What do you guys think was his reason?

Great questions! I will only discuss the second portion of your post.As an aside;I am attempting to find when LE took LD's cell.

Posted in thread #5 by Websleuther RANCH:
The fire makes the timeline pretty tight for anyone to try and make up an alibi*. JMO

I speak of poster Ranch as a prophet or 'Greek Chorus' take your pick.

This is from another post I made earlier:
Lisa contributed to the TL a lengthy cell phone conversation;interestingly Champion omitted her call in the TL then later blew off the call as very brief

I think LD has two objectives:
1) LD knows her (charges were filed)and (Jessica's half bother)Chris Hudson (alleged,no charges filed)have had domestic disturbance or volatile confrontations with Jessica. Several of which are logged & documented in the Clarion Ledger. The 'I love you Moma' cements & documents to all the close mother/daughter relationship her & Jessica share.
2)Alibi*

LD has made statements about Jessica that I would not attribute to a mother that nurtured and had a close loving relationship with her daughter. My point is only to look closely at those who shared & had daily contact with Jessica. You can go to the beginning of the thread where Bessie has links or to the media thread and read for your self what I am alluding to. Or,read through some of the threads.This has been thrashed through ad nauseam. You may or may not agree.

Footnote:
* The the fire on Herron Road makes the TL tight for an alibi

Please do not repost unless you link to Websleuths. Please feel free to disagree.I like reading everyone's opinions.

The opinions/theories in this post are mine. I take full responsibility for their content.

:cow:

 

[Batman's Mommy]

Like, Madame MizStery, the TimeLine makes me ullhair: ullhair: ullhair: This is DA John Champion's February press conference, that includes reporter Michael Clark, announcing the new TL. MC, as you may recall, was the one who first discovered the CCTV at M&Ms. Posted by The Commercial Appeal:

[video=youtube;QUiJZiAE_LU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUiJZiAE_LU[/video]


Listen at the 01:35 mark when the DA explains that they know where Jessica was at 6:00 before she arrives in B'ville at 6:15 as she is seen on a photograph from another video source. A private video source could be someone's cellular phone. It was at the private residence, in Courtland, where she stopped after leaving M&Ms! And all of this time, I thought the private video source was from B'ville. :doh:

At the 3:15 mark, a reporter asks if there may have been illegal criminal activity that lured Jessica to that spot. The DA answers, "No."

We've never had any proof, whatsoever, that Jessica abused heavy drugs, especially after returning from Leah's House. To the contrary, she was cleaning up her life, working (part-time) at Goody's and preparing to go to college. Oh, and she was writing a book.

In the video interview, the DA only admits that Ali as having been cleared thus far. The first responders arrive at 8:14 and Ali snaps a picture of her incinerated car on the tow truck at 9:30. That was due to the sheriff's order. The DA does not visit the CS until Sunday afternoon.

What is annoying is that the reporters totally ignore the claim that LD was speaking to Jessica between 6:48 and 7:13 during the "missing" hour. Maybe he informed them ahead of time not to mention it as it is part of their ongoing investigation. Does anyone remember when LEO took LDs phone as evidence?
** Note LD also said she and Jessica spoke between 6:48 and 7:08 in her interview with Tricia on Jan. 15, 2015.

** http://www.truecrimeradio.com/radio-archives/beth-karas-lisa-chambers-radio-archive-january-2015/

My feeling about that "text and call" with Jessica, during the missing hour, was mentioned just so LD could tell the public that Jessica said, "I love you, momma." jmho Let that sink in.

We must ask ourselves why did the DA call the press conference. What was his purpose? What was his intention? Obviously, it was to announce the "missing hour". I feel it was to alert whomever Jessica was with during that hour that they were on to them. What do you guys think was his reason?

RBBM



All JMO-

Due to all the national attention, the DA was probably being pressed for the presser. The whole area was/is under a microscope. Obviously, the crime scene and evidence (Jessica's car) were not treated with the importance warranted in a murder investigation. In an attempt to not look like a bunch of slackers, for lack of a better word, LE needed to at least appear to be working on this crime. Again, heavy emphasis here on the national attention. IMO, no one in this area wanted the attention that this case has garnered for varying reasons, which I will not list because I'm sure they've all been exposed and dissected to the best of everyone's ability. Basically, I think he called it in an effort to save face. Again, all JMHO. :moo:

 

[MSCJgrad]

Thanks for the update and including the info from People mag. While I am not surpassed one bit this article contains contradictions to the myriad of other specifics such as times/timelines/places/names/people/just about anything else pertaining to this case, I am surprised to see any direct quotes from Darby or Champion or any other LEO's. That being said, moving forward with this new (to me-I also had not had time to find/buy/read the article, or really follow up on this case much at all lately-I digress...) information/timeline, I see it as worthy of being investigated as anything else we have been presented with thus far, so here goes. My opinion is, based on this article/information alone- specifically, the timeline - are that there are 3 possible options for perp's: 1) Whoever called JC prior to her leaving her mom's house. If LD's claims that Jessica received a phone call prior to leaving the house are true, this person would be the first person that I work to rule out, across the board. The same goes for any other person who was in communication via phone/text/social media within the last 90 days (especially 24 hours prior to and following JC's murder) with said mystery caller. If JC was indeed lured to her death, this was phase 1;
2) LD. No disrespect intended; this is in the best efforts of solving her daughter's murder. I am not listing LD second for any particular reason aside from it is her testimony that JC received a phone call prior to leaving to go purchase cigarettes for her (LD). No information to my knowledge has been released, nor has anyone come forward indicating they were the person who called JC prior to her leaving the house. Until this is acknowledged and confirmed by LE, she could not be eliminated as a suspect based on this timeline presented by People.
3) Person(s) @ the undisclosed Courtland home, which would support the hearsay/rumors that began circulating very early on (remember the 'party'?).
I suppose for the sake of discussion we could throw in a 4th option, which could be a 'mixed bag', to include but not limited to: serial killer, suicide, accidental death (car malfunctions, drug/bomb explosion), assassination, etc.
All JMO, and thanks again for the updates, everybody. This is one case that I would not be the least bit surprised to see one of us solve before LE does (and most of us have full time jobs that do not include investigating this crime).

The Dec 6 Time Line according to People magazine (pages 46-47):


4:59 P.M. - At Home: Jessica is napping in a chair in her living room after watching CSI with her mother.

5:00 P.M. - Fateful Phone Call: Jessica talks on her cell phone (to someone at a number police will not disclose), then leaves in her car.

5:15 P.M. - First Stop: At M&M mini-mart Jessica buys $14 worth in gas and gets a call, then she heads south on Highway 51.

5:45 P.M. - Last Stop: After calling her mom to say she'll be home "in a little bit", Jessica goes to an undisclosed Courtland home.

6:00 P.M. - Leaves City: Jessica spends 10 to 15 minutes in the area of Highway 6's first red light, headed into Batesville.

6:30 P.M. - Mystery Hour: Police say they now know who Jessica was with from 6:30 to 7:32 P.M., when she arrived on Herron Road. Says Champion: "That hour holds the key to solving our case. I'm cautiously optimistic."

8:09 P.M. - A motorist calls to report a burning car a mile away from the M&M mini-mart. Jessica dies at 2:37 A.M.

 

[MSCJgrad]

Further, how in the hell could a person be on 'on fire along with their car' for a half an hour and still be alive/able to stand/walk/speak-or even be deemed worthy of transport (i.e. not DOA, therefore not needing to be transported via airvac to hospital)??? ANYONE?

As always, thanks for all the Dee-tails, DeDee.

Regarding the PEOPLE timeline's 6:30 to 7:32 PM Mystery Hour, did Jessica arrive on Herron Road at the beginning of that interval, or at the end? Or is the wording purposely ambiguous because they don't know? If it was at the end, and the motorist called the fire in at 8:09 PM, that is 37 minutes later. If Ben Chambers was quoted as saying that Jessica and her car were burning for at least 30 minutes before the fire department was called, then why is that hour so important? Sounds like things started to really happen sometime -after- that hour.

JMO

 

[MSCJgrad]

Worth noting: Time-stamps on video surveillance are not always as specific was we would like to think that they are. I have had a recent career change, which has presented me with hours on hours on hours of video surveillance, interrogations, etc. It's always noted with the documents how the timestamps were confirmed, and what the actual timestamp is (LEO's often first check the time on their own personal watch or phone along with the surveillance video as it rolls prior to seeking any previous surveillance footage, in order to first establish whether or not the timing is accurate or not. From what I have seen, it is not accurate more often than not. Further, it seems as though the times are not always really off-like within a couple of seconds or minutes, but sometimes they are waaaay off, for no apparent reason, which is why LEO's check it ow prior to reviewing any previous footage, when possible. The most accurate way to gauge time is from cell phones/towers/etc. Video does give a good reference of time/location, but GPS/cell info is much more specific and reliable. JMO

Rudd and Sanford were both incarcerated at the time, so have ironclad alibis. Ali I'm not so sure about. He was allegedly captured on security video at the time. But we all know he knew how to skillfully operate that equipment with very purposeful omissions during shows for the media and later on, for LE, at least before that equipment was finally taken by authorities. I assume the FBI and other media experts could readily detect any edits made to the videotape(s) from that night. If the video time stamps were incorrect because of Daylight Savings Time, that could become an issue, too. Perhaps a way to disentangle that one issue would be to compare certain events on Ali's phone that evening to the same events on the security system? Cell phones will automatically adjust due to changes in daylight savings or time zones.

JMO

 

[MSCJgrad]

If (2) is the case, here, I would hope that investigators and LE would follow the lead of investigators of the Lonzie Barton case. He called out the person last seen with the 'missing' child RE as being untruthful. He called out the child's mother as being untruthful, and they put all of the information that they had out there to the public. Next thing you see is RE approaching the police wanting to make a deal, eventually leading them to the body of little LB. My point is, I've seen this as being effective multiple times. If the last person seen with JC is uncooperative or is deemed untrustworthy, then put that information out there for the public. Put some pressure on people, and call them out. It definitely wouldn't hurt, imo.

Then either:
(1) LE does -now- know where Jessica was that hour, or
(2) The person LE -now- knows she was with isn't talking.

Why does LE -now- know who she was with when they didn't seem to know before? Perhaps some 17 strange bedfellows were busy rolling over on each other during their all-expense-paid vacation over the Christmas holidays? Or perhaps some inquisitive PEOPLE magazine reporters squeezed out some information LE had been unwilling to share before they slipped up?

More questions than answers, sorry.

JMO

 

[carbuff]

Worth noting: Time-stamps on video surveillance are not always as specific was we would like to think that they are. I have had a recent career change, which has presented me with hours on hours on hours of video surveillance, interrogations, etc. It's always noted with the documents how the timestamps were confirmed, and what the actual timestamp is (LEO's often first check the time on their own personal watch or phone along with the surveillance video as it rolls prior to seeking any previous surveillance footage, in order to first establish whether or not the timing is accurate or not. From what I have seen, it is not accurate more often than not. Further, it seems as though the times are not always really off-like within a couple of seconds or minutes, but sometimes they are waaaay off, for no apparent reason, which is why LEO's check it ow prior to reviewing any previous footage, when possible. The most accurate way to gauge time is from cell phones/towers/etc. Video does give a good reference of time/location, but GPS/cell info is much more specific and reliable. JMO

The system I worked with briefly a few years ago, it was very very easy to change the date and time, too. I don't know whether newer systems have more security, but on that one, whoever had access to the administrator account just had to call up a menu and there it was. The system didn't have any way of correcting itself, either, so if you set it back a few minutes, it would overwrite what had been recorded before.

 

[rbarber17]

Worth noting: Time-stamps on video surveillance are not always as specific was we would like to think that they are. I have had a recent career change, which has presented me with hours on hours on hours of video surveillance, interrogations, etc. It's always noted with the documents how the timestamps were confirmed, and what the actual timestamp is (LEO's often first check the time on their own personal watch or phone along with the surveillance video as it rolls prior to seeking any previous surveillance footage, in order to first establish whether or not the timing is accurate or not. From what I have seen, it is not accurate more often than not. Further, it seems as though the times are not always really off-like within a couple of seconds or minutes, but sometimes they are waaaay off, for no apparent reason, which is why LEO's check it ow prior to reviewing any previous footage, when possible. The most accurate way to gauge time is from cell phones/towers/etc. Video does give a good reference of time/location, but GPS/cell info is much more specific and reliable. JMO

<snip>
I assume the FBI and other media experts could readily detect any edits made to the videotape(s) from that night. If the video time stamps were incorrect because of Daylight Savings Time, that could become an issue, too. Perhaps a way to disentangle that one issue would be to compare certain events on Ali's phone that evening to the same events on the security system? Cell phones will automatically adjust due to changes in daylight savings or time zones.

JMO

MSCJgrad, I was speaking with authority from my ignorance as far as the video equipment time stamps. You are speaking with authority from actual knowledge and experience. Can you confirm that LE would have a way of detecting any edits to a videotape, including dubbing, erasure, re-recording, and other alterations?

As far as "calibrating" the actual time on the videotape using Ali's phone, I was thinking about those photos taken of Jessica's burned out car at the M&M on his phone and posted on Facebook, around 9:30 pm CST on 12/6/2014. Wouldn't the surveillance system have captured his capturing, thus serving as a handy reference point, or would it have already been shut down for the evening? I'm assuming such systems normally remain active 24/7, with tapes being recycled after a certain amount of time has passed without any significant events recorded on them.

Regards,
rbarber17