Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #2

[Historydetective63]

It's great fuel for a conspiracy theory, so I am hesitant to tell/remind you, but Lloyd's cousin, Henry Parker, the bloody bag witness, died of natural causes a few months ago. In fiction, it would make for an interesting murder conspiracy to cover up a kidnapping ring, but in nonfiction, it just reduces the usable evidence against Lloyd.

You are free on your own dime to investigate alien abductions as long as you want or other long-shot theories, but you run a legal slander/libel risk if you say something like "Mr. X sold the Lyon sisters to Mr. Y," naming Mr. X and Mr. Y.

I could not find a cause of death for Henry Parker. He was only in his 50's wasn't he? That seems young to die from natural causes. The obituary I read did not say what he died from.

 

[siriunsun]

DNA proof of their death would obviously be the best evidence, but just the girls not being seen alive for so many years would in my opinion, be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the girls are dead. The state would also have to prove who caused the death to convict anyone.

I disagree. All the state has to do is convince a jury to convict someone.

 

[Schipperke]

I disagree. All the state has to do is convince a jury to convict someone.

Although it is not something to joke about, you both may be right in some ways. That is why we have so many appeals processes built into the system. The the days of the wild west, sentence was final and carried out immediately. But you make my point about a trial "ending the case whether or not the truth has been revealed." Thank you.

 

[siriunsun]

Although it is not something to joke about, you both may be right in some ways. That is why we have so many appeals processes built into the system. The the days of the wild west, sentence was final and carried out immediately. But you make my point about a trial "ending the case whether or not the truth has been revealed." Thank you.

My personal opinion is that the truth would have been revealed a long time ago if folks had not enabled family members and covered for them when they committed crimes. In fact, it's also my opinion that the whole thing might not have happened at all if covering for the crimes of family members had not been such a priority. I don't think I'm the only one who sees it that, either. Appeals are fine with me, especially if new evidence comes to light, but that would require that the cover-ups stop.

 

[Schipperke]

Everyone has a personal opinion. If in the opinion of the court (presiding judge) the state has failed to prove its case, a directed verdict can be imposed in which case the jury never gets to make a decision. A directed verdict in a criminal case can only be for acquittal. I don't know if the case can be retried (double jeopardy after a verdict of acquittal) or if the directed verdict is subject to appeal. I am not an attorney.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Motion+for+directed+verdict

[h=2]directed verdict[/h]n. a verdict by a jury based on the specific direction by a trial judge that they must bring in thatverdict because one of the parties has not proved his/her/its case as a matter of law (failed topresent credible testimony on some key element of the claim or of the defense). A judge in a criminal case may direct a verdict of acquittal on the basis the prosecution has not proved its case,but the judge may not direct a verdict of guilty, since that would deprive the accused of the constitutional right to a jury trial.

 

[zensiert]

The latest in the court; looks like March 15 may not happen folks.

01/27/2016
Order: TRANSCRIPT/PRODUCTION
Motion: FILE LOA UNDER SEAL
Notice: PURSUANT TO 19.2-264.3:1E
Motion: APPT MITIGATION SPECIALIST
Memorandum: SUPPORT MOT APPT SPECIALIS
Motion: APPT EXPERT INVESTIGATOR
Memorandum: SUPPORT MOT FOR INVESTIGAT
Motion: CONTINUANCE

 

[Schipperke]

Is anyone surprised? Not me.

 

[Schipperke]

FYI - posted on Possible Connections

Newspost from UK on Oakland County Child Killers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Case-frightening-history-child-sex-abuse.html
Friday, Jan 29th 2016
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[h=1]Inmate, 70, linked to unsolved child rapes and murders in 1970s after breakthrough in DNA technology has horrifying history of sex abuse[/h]

 

[steveP120]

I could not find a cause of death for Henry Parker. He was only in his 50's wasn't he? That seems young to die from natural causes. The obituary I read did not say what he died from.

It has been several weeks since I looked, but while I don't think a cause of death was in his obituary, other news stories described his substance abuse problems and hard life.

One WS member did know him, went to some service for him, and did not mention anything out of the ordinary, but she can speak for herself if she wishes to.

In general, far more people dies from natural causes than murder, so I doubt he he was murdered (and the police missed his murder or have not released the information to the public). But one can safely speculate on it or any theory as long as you don't slander/libel anyone by naming a specific possible murderer such as "Mr. X. murdered Henry."

 

[Tulessa]

FYI - posted on Possible Connections

Newspost from UK on Oakland County Child Killers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Case-frightening-history-child-sex-abuse.html
Friday, Jan 29th 2016
·
·
·
·
·
[h=1]Inmate, 70, linked to unsolved child rapes and murders in 1970s after breakthrough in DNA technology has horrifying history of sex abuse[/h]

Gosh Schipperke, thanks for posting that.

 

[siriunsun]

Everyone has a personal opinion. If in the opinion of the court (presiding judge) the state has failed to prove its case, a directed verdict can be imposed in which case the jury never gets to make a decision. A directed verdict in a criminal case can only be for acquittal. I don't know if the case can be retried (double jeopardy after a verdict of acquittal) or if the directed verdict is subject to appeal. I am not an attorney.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Motion+for+directed+verdict

[h=2]directed verdict[/h]n. a verdict by a jury based on the specific direction by a trial judge that they must bring in thatverdict because one of the parties has not proved his/her/its case as a matter of law (failed topresent credible testimony on some key element of the claim or of the defense). A judge in a criminal case may direct a verdict of acquittal on the basis the prosecution has not proved its case,but the judge may not direct a verdict of guilty, since that would deprive the accused of the constitutional right to a jury trial.

If the state of Virginia was failing to make its case, the case would probably not be on the docket. For all the noise made on the internet by onlookers, most prosecutors do not bring cases forward into court unless there is evidence to assist in winning those cases.

 

[boulder74]

Update of court hearings today.

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/experts-appointed-trial-continued-in-bedford-missing-sisters-case/article_ffa5ac0e-c6bf-11e5-9c96-df79449ccffb.html

 

[G&AMom]

Update of court hearings today.

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/experts-appointed-trial-continued-in-bedford-missing-sisters-case/article_ffa5ac0e-c6bf-11e5-9c96-df79449ccffb.html

Thanks, boulder.

So the defense says they will not be ready until October 18th at the earliest, and the prosecution agreed saying there are four hard drives worth of documents and evidence to go through. The judge also imposed a gag order.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[gregjrichards]

Thanks, boulder.

So the defense says they will not be ready until October 18th at the earliest, and the prosecution agreed saying there are four hard drives worth of documents and evidence to go through. The judge also imposed a gag order.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

It is unfortunate the case is going to be delayed till later in the year especially for the Lyon family. But hopefully this will give the prosecution and defence the best chance of preparing for a fair trial. I can understand the need for a gag order. Does this affect what we can discuss on websleuths? I just wondered if the threads would be closed till trial?

 

[G&AMom]

It is unfortunate the case is going to be delayed till later in the year especially for the Lyon family. But hopefully this will give the prosecution and defence the best chance of preparing for a fair trial. I can understand the need for a gag order. Does this affect what we can discuss on websleuths? I just wondered if the threads would be closed till trial?

Yeah, the Lyon family has waited so long I guess they can wait a little longer, but it can't be much comfort to them. The idea that there are four hard drives full of info does suggest that there is a lot we don't know about, which is something.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[steveP120]

It is unfortunate the case is going to be delayed till later in the year especially for the Lyon family. But hopefully this will give the prosecution and defence the best chance of preparing for a fair trial. I can understand the need for a gag order. Does this affect what we can discuss on websleuths? I just wondered if the threads would be closed till trial?

I am NOT a lawyer and I have NOT read the gag order, but in general gag orders can't legally apply to the press or the general public. The press or you as long as you are not a witness or involved in the defense or prosecution can say anything you want (and be sued later if you slander anyone or break any confidentiality agreements you may have signed).

The press routinely goes to court to challenge any gag order on them, and the press usually wins. The Pentagon Papers Case clarified that the press (The New York Times) has the right to even publish secret information that could have affected the Vietnam War.

This is how WSET reported the gag order, which I am sure is not the exact wording of the gag order:
"The judge ended Friday's hearing by granting a gag order which prevents counsel, police officers and anyone else involved in the case from speaking about it outside of the courtroom."
http://wset.com/news/local/judge-delays-lyon-sisters-murder-trial

 

[steveP120]

If the state of Virginia was failing to make its case, the case would probably not be on the docket. For all the noise made on the internet by onlookers, most prosecutors do not bring cases forward into court unless there is evidence to assist in winning those cases.

In general I would agree with you that prosecutors don't want time or money on losing cases, but this could be an exception to the rule. For property crimes, it just easier to wait and catch the criminal next time instead of risking losing a case or sending the wrong person to jail on flimsy evidence. For recent murders, rather than risking an acquittal, prosecution has the option of waiting for more evidence, such as a future ex-wife or future caught criminal willing to make a deal. But 40 years after the crime, they are running out of time. One witness, Henry Parker, already died.

 

[Schipperke]

I am not sure what weight would be given to depositions and/or signed statements after death of a witness. It may depend on what kind of physical evidence exists to support the statements and/or depositions

Interesting information on Mitigation Experts: http://preferredsolutionsinc.com/mitigation-for-criminal-defense/

Seems to indicate that mitigation experts are part of the defense, but I hope that the reports prepared are make available to both the prosecution and defense in the interest of justice. Seems like that report would contain most of the information we have all be speculating about. It really should be seen as a "friend of the court" rather than pro one side or the other, IMO, if it is truly to serve justice.

 

[steveP120]

I am not sure what weight would be given to depositions and/or signed statements after death of a witness. It may depend on what kind of physical evidence exists to support the statements and/or depositions

Because of abuses by the colonial British, the U.S. Constitution give everyone the right to confront witnesses. Since the dead can't be confronted, there are only very limited situations where their testimony can be used.

"After Crawford, the government cannot use out-of-court statements that are offered as testimony against the defendant unless the witness is unavailable and the defendant has had a previous opportunity to cross-examine the witness.

The Supreme Court recently carved out an important exception to this general rule for so-called "dying declarations". In Michigan v. Bryant, the Court ruled that a statement made by a dying person can be entered into evidence at trial if the statement was made to assist police with an "ongoing emergency" as opposed to merely helping the police investigate a past crime."
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/the-6th-amendment-s-confrontation-clause.html

(Virginia) State laws can give people more rights than are in the US Constitution, but state laws can't take away or limit constitutional rights. If the prosecution has to use the testimony of a dead man (Henry Parker) I would guess they have a weak case, and the matter will be appealed for decades.

 

[Schipperke]

No offense, stevep, but I hope you are wrong or he gave a dying declaration! He obviously had some part in the overall process or he would not have been named in the affidavit. It would not surprise me, though, if the intent is to draw the whole case out so that all the possible participants finish out their lives and escape having to answer to justice in this world. Time will tell.