ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[ClaireNC]

With over 900 investigations under his belt I think he knows the difference. IMO, saying physical evidence makes it sound like it's something it isn't. IMO

ETA: The physical evidence is probably being tested to determine if there's any biological evidence on it. And, there's a variety of labs that test a variety of things, IMO.

And we can agree to disagree on this and that is perfectly OK.

 

[Inthedetails]

If I am remembering correctly, in another case (Lonzie Barton), LE seemed to "play nice" with the mom in the beginning. But I don't think they ever truly thought she was innocent. Maybe something like that happened here.

I think that is exactly what happened. LE is not obligated to be "truthful" in the sense that if it helps the investigation to call the parents "solid," they will say that, whether or not the parents are indeed "solid."

I'm quite confident that even when LE says the last people to see a missing person alive are "solid," they still are looking at them closely.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Why does Klein keep implying they've been working closely with LE, but Bowerman said he didn't even meet with them?

That is what I remember Sheriff Bowerman stating.

As far as him invoking Quantico every chance he (Klein) gets only LE and/or LE crime labs can submit any evidence to be analyzed regardless of what type of evidence it is. I guess anyone can tell I am not a fan of Klein!

JMO, JMO, JMO!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hi all,
well I've read 5000 posts and just wondered if someone could recall something. Didnt Klein say he and his staff were in tears after discovering something in the case?
I'm up to speed, but the whole Vilt "adoption" interview was so odd and contrasting it made me wonder if I heard what I thought I did

Welcome to WS, CJidaho!

Yes, Klein did say when they relayed their conclusion of DeOrr Jr. being deceased either due to accident or homicide, their investigators and everyone in the room broke down. I don't know if it was any specific piece of evidence or simply having the emotionally charged conversation with family which precipitated the sad session for them.

 

[Aeronomy]

Klein just said that they "all" met yesterday. All meaning Klein plus local and FBI investigators. So maybe Bowerman has met with him since he made that statement earlier this week. http://590kid.com/2016/01/28/former-deorr-kunz-investigator/

That's what I thought he meant at first and then I thought maybe he meant "all" as in his team since he stated they all were in Idaho. Figured they split up to follow up on a few leads and met back up at the end of the day or something.

 

[Inthedetails]

That is what I remember Sheriff Bowerman stating.

As far as him invoking Quantico every chance he (Klein) gets only LE and/or LE crime labs can submit any evidence to be analyzed regardless of what type of evidence it is. I guess anyone can tell I am not a fan of Klein!

JMO, JMO, JMO!

I'm not a big fan either after listening to the radio interview today. Most of the interview was him talking about himself. I have to give LE credit in that doesn't happen - they talk about the case not themselves.

 

[AmyPond]

Physical evidence is from a non-living source. Biological evidence is blood, tissue, urine, etc.

Yes, he obviously knows the difference. But it's possible he's just speaking broadly for the public rather than using the proper terms. We really have no idea if he means biological or non-biological sources at this point.

(modsnip)
It can be confusing, but MOST parents would look back to see their child was "staying put". They would not therefore mention it unless ASKED. They do not have to say "I kissed my son goodnight," "I told him I loved him", etc. because we should not need to be told. It is what the blog-writer refers to as "the expected". He makes similar comparisons to saying you took a shower and toweled off or that you got up and made the bed, or brushed your teeth before work. Becauswe this is NORMAL behavior, most people would not include it in summarizing their day.

For myself, today, I "got up at 6:30, got ready for work" (which included bathing, washing and brushing my hair, brushing my teeth, fixing coffee, packing lunch, and scraping ice off my windshield). "My commute was horrible" (because of uncleared snow and bad drivers, but as this is common this week, again, it is not worthy of mention. If I were to carry on about the frost on my car and the single lane roadways - usually 3 lanes but with only one cleared of snow - and the rude drivers, it would probably be because I was late leaving the house and am trying to "justify" my being late to work by placing the blame elsewhere.

Good examples. I know people who call in sick to work when not really sick and it's like they feel the need to give some long excuse or whatever. If someone is truly sick, they will typically just said "I'm sick and won't be in today."

I think that is exactly what happened. LE is not obligated to be "truthful" in the sense that if it helps the investigation to call the parents "solid," they will say that, whether or not the parents are indeed "solid."

I'm quite confident that even when LE says the last people to see a missing person alive are "solid," they still are looking at them closely.

Exactly. They would be stupid to just ignore all possibilities, especially in the beginning. I do think in cases like this, they probably want to give the parents the benefit of the doubt. I think that in this case, more things rose to the surface over time. I don't think LE would just name the parents as suspects unless they had SOMETHING to go on. (And if they don't...then that is just awful.)

 

[LaLaw2000]

I find the first part of the 2nd tape quite confusing. Klein was describing a very long meeting yesterday with all the investigators getting together. Then he mentioned a morning meeting with both families in both our meetings, but were the meetings together or separate? I found this quit confusing, can't anyone shed some light?

JMO, I think Klein was talking about his own investigators, not law enforcement investigators. This is just my impression.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

If I am remembering correctly, in another case (Lonzie Barton), LE seemed to "play nice" with the mom in the beginning. But I don't think they ever truly thought she was innocent. Maybe something like that happened here.

It happened in the Noah Thomas case also. The Sheriff was hotly defending the parents and blasting social media and the parents were arrested after Noah's funeral. I understand the Sheriff not wanting to call JM and DK suspects right off the bat. However he did call them POI and said it was just because they were there. No, that would have been witnesses. We all see how quickly Deorr lawyered up once named a suspect. Imo

 

[LisaB]

Also, did we establish if they're married yet? Wouldn't marriage protect them from testifying against one another?

It would prevent them being FORCED to, but they could do so voluntarily. I also do not know if that privilege would start the day they married, and exclude events that occurred sooner.

Another parent who made ti plain he did not want his child, and whose child subsequently died, was Justin Ross Harriss (baby Cooper).

 

[Onebest]

Well, then read this about physical evidence. It is evidence that comes from a non-living origin.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3448300449.html

I often wonder if its cell phone evidence....??

 

[Inthedetails]

It would prevent them being FORCED to, but they could do so voluntarily. I also do not know if that privilege would start the day they married, and exclude events that occurred sooner.

Another parent who made ti plain he did not want his child, and whose child subsequently died, was Justin Ross Harriss (baby Cooper).

Someone established upthread that in ID, married couples can testify against each other if the case involves a child.

 

[CJidaho]

Klein interview mentions DK's attorney making a public statement, that Klein considers a sideshow. Anyone know what the attorney said?

 

[CJidaho]

Klein interview mentions DK's attorney making a public statement, that Klein considers a sideshow. Anyone know what the attorney said?

I think I found my own answer:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/farther-of-missing-deorr-jr-hires-attorney/37637550

 

[Dee10]

My understanding is LE can lie to a suspect, but not to the public...that's why you hear no comment a lot.

 

[LisaB]

If one was going to bury a body, they'd have to dig 6 feet and then put the body in the ground.. (body's wrapped in plastic or non biodegradable containers would leave too much evidence if ever discovered.) A 6 foot deep hole is not easy to dig and would take some time. I think a cadaver dog would hit on the person that dug the grave and put the child in there. All of that would be difficult to do in 90 minutes before the body starts to decay enough for a cadaver dog to get a hit.. and presumably the dirt would get the truck dirty with earth. Even if the clothes the gravedigger were thrown out, I don't think washing could get the smell of decay off the skin in time. But then there weren't cadaver dogs up there the first day, correct?

My boyfriend is a "gravedigger". They actually do NOT bury bodies "six feet under". In fact, many of the vaults containing the coffins have their corners come through the surface and have to be covered over. Recently a woman argued that someone had been buried in the wrong spot. My BF dug about 4" of dirt off the top of the vault (which contains the casket) to show her the plastic name tag the vault company placed on it.

In the "potters field" many people were buried without so much as a coffin, and they are 2' deep graves.

 

[neesaki]

Klein does say that they are waiting for "lab" results, so he might be using a broader definition of physical. I think most people use term "physical" to mean anything that is tangible and don't differentiate based on the "legal" definition.

Oh yes, lab results, one more edit. TU If you can think of anything else before my editing window goes away let me know, not sure how soon that is though. TIA

 

[mrjitty]

It happened in the Noah Thomas case also. The Sheriff was hotly defending the parents and blasting social media and the parents were arrested after Noah's funeral. I understand the Sheriff not wanting to call JM and DK suspects right off the bat. However he did call them POI and said it was just because they were there. No, that would have been witnesses. We all see how quickly Deorr lawyered up once named a suspect. Imo

LE will study competing versions right from the start but of course in the first hours and days, most manpower is going to be diverted into the search efforts.

It takes time to examine the parents given the need for forensics, to find the body, to interview everyone and to rule out other possibilities.

Allied to that are tactical considerations

While the parents are merely "assisting the investigation" the police have a lot of scope to talk to them and observe them.

You may have noticed in recent english cases the police camp out at the parents house and restrict all access to them.

And generally the police will try not to arrest the suspect until they are good and ready as they won't want to have to release them again.

Once the suspect button gets pushed then of course all kinds of legal protections kick in

So for example, if the person helping the inquiry is in fact the red hot suspect an interview with them may be inadmissible in court if rights are not read/lawyer offered etc etc.

There are a lot of games that can get played in this area and a lot of incentives for the police to claim people are "not suspects"

 

[kammiemc]

If I am remembering correctly, in another case (Lonzie Barton), LE seemed to "play nice" with the mom in the beginning. But I don't think they ever truly thought she was innocent. Maybe something like that happened here.

I think it happens in a lot of cases. Like A LOT a lot. I think it is a normal investigation tactic. Or even just standard emotional intelligence stuff. They're trying to get information to find out what happened. You get more flies with honey...

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

Disagree, respectfully. Vilt's letter, and the content of his interview are new. It is a FACT that he wrote and sent the letter. It is also a FACT that the was pillaged by a relative about the time they retained him. It is FACT that he was never paid. It is FACT that JESSICA was the one who did not want national publicity. Putting them into the timeline would mean extracting the dates these things happened from Vilt, however.

It is a FACT that he wrote and sent the letter. According to Mr. Vilt. Doesn't make it "fact".
It is also a FACT that the was pillaged by a relative about the time they retained him. This is 3rd hand information. Supposedly, the fund raiser told Vernal; Vernal told Mr. Vilt; Mr. Vilt is relaying that information to the public. Not a "fact".
It is FACT that he was never paid. Again, according to Mr. Vilt. Not a "fact".
It is FACT that JESSICA was the one who did not want national publicity. I've never heard this one. Do you have a link? Has Jessica confirmed this? Is there a second source to confirm that she said this? Or is this just more supposition from Mr. Vilt?

FACT: "a real occurrence, something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed".
"Facts" are not based on opinion. "Facts" can be proven.

IMO, this is why this case is so screwed up - people are assuming that all opinions given equate to "facts". Everything that I've seen written or said about this case is supposition, innuendo, opinion, etc, even those coming from LE and the PIs. NOTHING that "we" have seen has been proven as fact! That will only occur in a court of law.

I am really distressed at the number of people who want so much to believe that little Deorr died a horrible, painful death, especially when their theory has his last moments witnessing his parents doing that something horrible to him. I will NOT entertain this scenario until there is proof of it from a reliable source (hasn't happened!). I will NOT believe it until real and conclusive evidence is proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. IMHO!!!