ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[kammiemc]

The big unanswered question for me is why did DK and JM lie in the first place and say they went to the campground on Friday??

In their interview, JM looks at DK when she/they answer Friday.

What is so secretative about their arrival day? This is possibly the answer to many questions and the case of little Deorr will be solved. People lie for a reason! For me, this was a big lie!

I totally agree. Something pretty hunky there. Especially how DK stalled and distracted when Nate asked them to go back to the beginning. Nate said, "Friday?" Perfect time for parents wanting tips about their abducted child to clarify that they arrived Thursday night. Instead, DK was like "....I don't even what day it is today." (Or something very close.) Super hink!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Yvettea]

The question was actually, "How long has he been missing." JM answered about an hour.

 

[gliving]

It might be helpful to actually see the question the way it was asked and listen to how Penner answered it. Does anyone have those quotes handy?

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video]

Hope this helps.

 

[Niner]

ullhair: :banghead:

Totally agree!! :gaah:

 

[gliving]

Is someone able to refresh my memory?

Who is Jessica the caretaker of, her own grandfather or Deorr Sr's grandpa? Or did I read that she worked at a care center of some sort?

Just wondering, because surely if she only cares for vfthe grandpa, I'm sure she would have Deorr with her, rather than hire a sitter. If not, Deorr would have to be at a preschool or a babysitter's house (possibly a relative) while she worked. So why can't anyone answer the question of who saw Deorr last, prior to the camping trip?

Such a seemingly easy question to answer, but it hasn't been answered to the best of my knowledge.

This article has a little about Deorr's day to day arrangement. To me it sounds like GPKunz provided for him during the day.

July 17, 2015
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

"DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

“They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

 

[gliving]

Why hasn't JM hired an attorney? If she's trying to make herself look innocent by not lawyering up, well, that might have been understandable in the beginning. But once considered a suspect, it seems almost crazy to me that she hasn't retained one yet. With the seriousness of the case, I doubt it's due to inability to come up with the money. I imagine her extended family and friends would chip in to give her a decent defense. It doesn't strike me that IR would have money lying around to lawyer up, but yet he found a way. Seems like at this point JM would at least want someone to be a mouthpiece for her, like DK's attorney did for him.

Another route one might take is a mental health defense. We haven't heard a peep from her since being named a suspect. I wondered if perhaps she's had a breakdown of sorts and is seeking treatment. My opinion only.

 

[bessie]

Are you new to this case?

There are a lot of direct quotes from LE as well as a multitude of links to interviews, 911 calls, etc. Maybe someone has a master list of most of this?

Just an FYI for those who might not be aware, the media thread contains links to most every news article published since DeOrr disappeared in July; plus transcripts of interviews with Sheriff Bowerman, IR, and other key players; the video of the parents' interview with Nate Eaton; links to maps; and virtually every bit of publicly released information pertaining to DeOrr's disappearance. The only thing you won't find is a timeline. WS member Niner put a lot of effort into compiling one, but as we well know, the timeline is so sketchy, that to avoid adding to the confusion, I felt it was best to remove it.

So, all that said -- and this isn't directed to you, haven, or to anyone in particular -- the information is readily accessible to all who will take the time to visit the media thread.

I've posted the link below. The link also can be found in the first post of each DeOrr Kunz discussion thread. In addition, clicking on the "deorr kunz" tag at the bottom of any page in the DK threads will pull up a full list of the discussion threads, and the media thread. It couldn't be any easier.

ID - Deorr Kunz Jr, 2 yr old -- Media,Timelines and Maps **NO DISCUSSION"

 

[carbuff]

Reminder: several of us have hearing issues, and pointing us to a video that we can't hear, or miss significant parts of, isn't a lot of help.

 

[haven71]

Another route one might take is a mental health defense. We haven't heard a peep from her since being named a suspect. I wondered if perhaps she's had a breakdown of sorts and is seeking treatment. My opinion only.

I can understand that being a possibility. Remember the interview when she was wedged between Deorr Sr and her mom on the couch? She looked like she was breaking down then. Possibly just overmedicated perhaps?

 

[SweetT]

This article has a little about Deorr's day to day arrangement. To me it sounds like GPKunz provided for him during the day.

July 17, 2015
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

"DeOrr’s grandfather says he’s heartbroken over his missing grandson.

“They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. I’m so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. I’m so sad. I’m just at a loss here.”

Being a grand parent myself, this statement from grandpa is heartbreaking.

 

[Midge Montana]

Being a grand parent myself, this statement from grandpa is heartbreaking.

Oh, I so agree SweetT. I just cannot even comprehend the pain this whole family must be in, and that's whether the parents are somehow nefariously involved or not. Let's face it, they had a child. SOMETHING went wrong and they no longer have him.

 

[neesaki]

It was even more than that. Telling the same story in detail word for word would be even more suspicious and I think what SB was trying to get across without giving too much away was that there were things like who cooked breakfast that morning or who carried a fishing pole down to the creek that kept changing. SB's opinion is that these things shouldn't be changing.

I question this also, why should these things change ? Idk, all I can say is that I've tried for the longest to give them the benefit of the doubt. At this point all I can say is I don't know for sure, 100%. No one does. I just have a bad feeling. On the other hand, just imagine that he did just wander off and hasn't been found. Of course that doesn't explain the untruths and inconsistencies does it?

 

[ILOKAL]

Yes. JM said they had been searching for about an hour. The question was how long have you been searching?

You see, there's a problem. Thanks to Jamaica for posting the audio and transcript of the call. The dispatcher ACTUALLY asked Jessica how long DeOrr HAD BEEN MISSING! She didn't ask how long Jessica had been searching. Jessica answered (that DeOrr had been MISSING) for about an hour.

So when the parents said in their interview they had searched for about 20 minutes, added to the time they had gone to and from the creek, that would BE about an hour that DeOrr had been missing.

It seems as though everyone (or at least most everyone) has had that incorrect from the very beginning all the way through and including today!

IMO

 

[bessie]

It was even more than that. Telling the same story in detail word for word would be even more suspicious and I think what SB was trying to get across without giving too much away was that there were things like who cooked breakfast that morning or who carried a fishing pole down to the creek that kept changing. SB's opinion is that these things shouldn't be changing.

I somewhat disagree with you. SB emphasized that primarily it was the questions relevant to DeOrr's whereabouts, and whether the parents knew what happened to him, that were problematic. On other questions, they were truthful.

19:41
TG: Exactly! One of our members said, “I noticed in your first comment this week, regarding the parents, you originally said they had been deceptive and then you changed that to less than truthful. Can you explain the reason for that change in wording?” Now, there could be absolutely no reason but that’s our Websleuths members, they get right down to the nitty gritty and really want the littlest details.

20:07
SB: Absolutely. I didn’t want them to think their whole polygraph was deceptive. It wasn’t. They passed portions of it, but the portions on whether they knew where Deorr was or knew what happened to him, they were not being…they were being less than truthful . So that’s why I changed it. I didn’t want them to think…normally you think when someone is deceptive everything they told you is a lie but that’s not the case.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12319129#post12319129

ETA: I was referring to the interview with Tricia. I do see where he stated it differently in the interview with Nate Eaton. So you were right. My apologies. His answer to Tricia pertained specifically to the polygraph results. The comments to NE were in reference to statements provided by the parents in LE interviews.


Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, Lemhi County: They were the top persons of interest, but I believe they are suspects. (The decision was reached) after an extensive week of interviewing, re-interviewing and an announcement from the FBI that they were being less than truthful on their polygraphs. Plus there are a lot of irregularities and discrepancies in their interviews (so) I felt it was necessary to come forward and say the parents are being less than truthful.

Eaton: Where have they been inconsistent? Can you go through a few examples?

Bowerman: Our timeline has constantly changed. A lot of small facts – things that should be important to them, important in their memory – have changed. From who made the decision to do what or who cooked that morning or who took a fishing pole down to the creek – just minor changes like that constantly changing.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

You see, there's a problem. Thanks to Jamaica for posting the audio and transcript of the call. The dispatcher ACTUALLY asked Jessica how long DeOrr HAD BEEN MISSING! She didn't ask how long Jessica had been searching. Jessica answered (that DeOrr had been MISSING) for about an hour.

So when the parents said in their interview they had searched for about 20 minutes, added to the time they had gone to and from the creek, that would BE about an hour that DeOrr had been missing.

It seems as though everyone (or at least most everyone) has had that incorrect from the very beginning all the way through and including today!

IMO

Interesting! I, for one, assumed that they would be searching from when they realized he was missing. But you're thinking maybe the came back from the creek, asked GGP how long DeOrr had been gone, then searched for twenty minutes and added the times up? But would that mean they were gone forty minutes then and not just ten or fifteen? Trying to make sure I'm following your train of thought.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

I think TheTruthWillOut was referring to this quote from SB: Bowerman: Our timeline has constantly changed. A lot of small facts – things that should be important to them, important in their memory – have changed. From who made the decision to do what or who cooked that morning or who took a fishing pole down to the creek – just minor changes like that constantly changing.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

Sorry - looks like I posted while it was being edited into the previous post!

 

[Mountaingazer]

You see, there's a problem. Thanks to Jamaica for posting the audio and transcript of the call. The dispatcher ACTUALLY asked Jessica how long DeOrr HAD BEEN MISSING! She didn't ask how long Jessica had been searching. Jessica answered (that DeOrr had been MISSING) for about an hour.

So when the parents said in their interview they had searched for about 20 minutes, added to the time they had gone to and from the creek, that would BE about an hour that DeOrr had been missing.

It seems as though everyone (or at least most everyone) has had that incorrect from the very beginning all the way through and including today!

IMO

At this point in time though, their story was that they were only 50 yards away and gone for 10 minutes. So gone 10 minutes plus 20 minutes of searching is half an hour, not an hour.

 

[Lilibet]

You see, there's a problem. Thanks to Jamaica for posting the audio and transcript of the call. The dispatcher ACTUALLY asked Jessica how long DeOrr HAD BEEN MISSING! She didn't ask how long Jessica had been searching. Jessica answered (that DeOrr had been MISSING) for about an hour.

So when the parents said in their interview they had searched for about 20 minutes, added to the time they had gone to and from the creek, that would BE about an hour that DeOrr had been missing.

It seems as though everyone (or at least most everyone) has had that incorrect from the very beginning all the way through and including today!

IMO

BBM

In the interview with Nate, which I just went through again, VDK says they went to the creek about 2:00 and that the time from when he "seen him until the time I figured out he was gone" was about 10 minutes. This is at about 9:10 in the video. Jessica says she called at 2:36 and that is when she said DK had been missing for an hour. It may have seemed like an hour that he was missing to JM, but he had not been missing an hour unless she is telling the truth/accurate and VDK is lying/mistaken.

I think it's clear why there is such confusion when the parents aren't even on the same page about the times. I'm not implying anything nefarious, but we aren't the ones who have this incorrect when their two stories don't come close. JMO

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358

ETA: In view of Bessie's encouragement to look things up, that's what I did so that my answer would be accurate and not just from my imperfect memory. It took a little more time, but I hope it settles this particular question with some degree of finality. If we all do this, we might chase our tails less.

 

[white rabbit]

IMO, when the timeline can't even be said straight by those involved, well...really?

see you all tomorrow...

 

[Hatfield]

What scares me is that I'm starting to suspect his death was not accidental. Outright killing him is beyond what I'm willing to think about.

One reason is that nobody has come forward. I think if it was an accident, even if they covered it up, that someone would have come clean near the beginning. Seems like the first person would get the most leniency, and possibly a plea bargain.

As far as who is the one who actually killed and/or covered it up is anybody's guess. I find it interesting that none of the 4 has pointed the finger toward one another. It almost makes it seem like they are equally guilty. The chance of that IMO is close to nil.

Somebody is going to cave, and probably not the ones who have the most to lose.

This is what has been baffling me. It really does seem like all 4 must be culpable otherwise the most innocent would have spilled their guts to LE by now.

I began to think of 1 scenario yesterday where all 4 could feel like they are all somewhat responsible.

Just speculating but lets assume they all decided to stop off at that bar on Thursday night for a few drinks before it closed. And lets assume they decided to leave the baby boy in the car because they wanted to drink. Then lets assume they all drank way too much and on the way back to the campsite none of them was in any condition to drive so they flipped a coin to see who would be the driver. Then lets assume some sort of accident happened that didn't damage the car too much but the driver slammed on the brakes really hard and the baby was not secured and flew frontwards slamming into the windshield resulting in death.

Something like this could have made them all feel somewhat guilty.

But even if something like this happened it seems like the one who was not driving would have came forward by now.

The only other theory I can come up with is some accident near the campfire. But again that would leave some of them not feeling as responsible as the others.

I cannot yet conceive that all 4 of them were involved in purposely harming him. I just cannot go there yet and hope that is not what happened.

This case is a real stumper.