Phone Calls and Phone Records

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MysticJynx said:
And had they listened to any of the rebutting they should have had doubt. Starting to think that the jury was sitting there asleep with their eyes open. JMO.
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How can you say the jury didn't listen to the defense case in chief? Were you there, did you witness them not listening? Did you deliberate with the jury? You disagree with their verdict, but that doesn't mean the jury refused to listen to the defense. Pointing fingers and blaming an outcome you don't like on more types of conspiracy, demonstrates a bias based on emotion.
 
madeleine74 said:
how can you say the jury didn't listen to the defense case in chief? Were you there, did you witness them not listening? Did you deliberate with the jury? You disagree with their verdict, but that doesn't mean the jury refused to listen to the defense. Pointing fingers and blaming an outcome you don't like on more types of conspiracy, demonstrates a bias based on emotion.
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was just my opinion!
 
There are some photos of that phone record that somebody got from the Murder ID show? where they were not blanked out. Some were incoming and some outgoing, but not all the same number. They were calls she was making to and receiving from her customers that day. The call I have not yet seen is the one that went directly to voicemail at 2:41:59 pm the CFNA. I'm curious who called her and what was in that voicemail.

I also would have thought they would have swabbed around the hood latch since they knew right away the engine would not start.
 
Toodles said:
There are some photos of that phone record that somebody got from the Murder ID show? where they were not blanked out. Some were incoming and some outgoing, but not all the same number. They were calls she was making to and receiving from her customers that day. The call I have not yet seen is the one that went directly to voicemail at 2:41:59 pm the CFNA. I'm curious who called her and what was in that voicemail.

I also would have thought they would have swabbed around the hood latch since they knew right away the engine would not start.
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That call was from SA.....CFNA...(Call Forward No Answer) She was either out of cell range or she purposely did not answer...

Thanks for posting the phone records Missy--I didn't see you did that--and I didn't feel like looking them up!

Oh...and :welcome::welcome: Toodles....you officially get no sleep from here on in....
 
BigCityAccountant said:
That call was from SA.....CFNA...(Call Forward No Answer) She was either out of cell range or she purposely did not answer...

Thanks for posting the phone records Missy--I didn't see you did that--and I didn't feel like looking them up!

Oh...and :welcome::welcome: Toodles....you officially get no sleep from here on in....
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The 2:41pm call is an unknown.... it's not SA
 
BigCityAccountant said:
That call was from SA.....CFNA...(Call Forward No Answer) She was either out of cell range or she purposely did not answer...

Thanks for posting the phone records Missy--I didn't see you did that--and I didn't feel like looking them up!

Oh...and :welcome::welcome: Toodles....you officially get no sleep from here on in....
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Ok...BUT...SA's phone shows a phone call to her at 2:35pm which does not appear on HER phone bill....

However, her phone registers a call at 2:41pm, most likely when she enters cell tower range....

On another note, a sleuther named Sarah mentioned that she thought TH could have left the property and then returned because of car damage...what are your thoughts on that....I think that could be possible given there appears to be carnage on the vehicle and fresh cut grass on the underside....I'll post the carnage the Rav 4 thread...
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Ok...BUT...SA's phone shows a phone call to her at 2:35pm which does not appear on HER phone bill....

However, her phone registers a call at 2:41pm, most likely when she enters cell tower range....

On another note, a sleuther named Sarah mentioned that she thought TH could have left the property and then returned because of car damage...what are your thoughts on that....I think that could be possible given there appears to be carnage on the vehicle and fresh cut grass on the underside....I'll post the carnage the Rav 4 thread...
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I know you have mentioned that before... but I have never ever heard of a call going through minutes later. The CFNA feature is something that is manually put into the phone.... or maybe it was something that she had set to the phone number that called? I don't know if her phone was capable of doing that though. Whoever called at 2:41, left a message... that message is in the voicemail logs... it is one of a few that didn't have the phone number in the logs.

look at the exhibit that was used in the trial... there was testimony about the :00 seconds on SA's phone. It did not even have time to try to connect to her phone IMO. Think about dialing a number and hanging up right away, it might not even ring on the other persons end. JMO

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...nd-362-Auto-Trader-Appt-and-Phone-Records.pdf <<< exhibit used in the trial

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rial-Exhibit-359-Avery-Call-Log-2005Oct31.pdf <<< these are SA's cell log for the 31st.

ETA: I responded to Sarah over in the Rav4 thread I think ;-)
 
Just wanted to thank everyone for the different point of views and information they have provided!! Haven't been on Websleuths since the Oscar Pistorious case and that was under a different username :/

My main problem with the phone records are the voicemails being deleted. Seems like the new counsel looking into SA's case also seems to believe there is something more about those deleted voicemails

JMO
 
Found this on another site. Seems to indicate that TH's voice mail could only accommodate 20 voice mails. With that being said, Cingular automatically deleted the messages after 14 days. So, the old voice mails dropped off, creating space for new voice mails, which then became full again, then more dropping off, making way for new voice mails. I know my Verizon voicemail used to say "this message will be saved for 14 days" although I think it now says 21 days.
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BCA, that's one amazing find!

That would mean no one was deleting VM messages from TH's cell line and deletions occurred as older VMs were automatically deleted by the carrier. And what appeared to be suspicious was nothing of the kind.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Found this on another site. Seems to indicate that TH's voice mail could only accommodate 20 voice mails. With that being said, Cingular automatically deleted the messages after 14 days. So, the old voice mails dropped off, creating space for new voice mails, which then became full again, then more dropping off, making way for new voice mails. I know my Verizon voicemail used to say "this message will be saved for 14 days" although I think it now says 21 days.
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Why wouldn't the Cingular guy that testified say that then? I had wondered if a message got "bumped", but you would think the cingular guy would have said that it was a possibility? IIRC he said at least one message would have had to have been deleted for the last message to have been on there. I am watching my shows, but will look for the testimony later.... ugggh that testimony was confusing to read LOL might be better now that we have the exhibit they are talking about ;-)
 
Thank you for clearing that up! Still would love to be able to have access to all of those VMs. :clap::clap:
 
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Um, according to Ms Zellner that means Cingular (AT&T) is either the killer or part of the conspiracy... :thinking:
 

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missy1974 said:
Why wouldn't the Cingular guy that testified say that then? I had wondered if a message got "bumped", but you would think the cingular guy would have said that it was a possibility? IIRC he said at least one message would have had to have been deleted for the last message to have been on there. I am watching my shows, but will look for the testimony later.... ugggh that testimony was confusing to read LOL might be better now that we have the exhibit they are talking about ;-)
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Missy this is not an exhibit from the trial. I found it on another website. I should have kept it for reference. Let me look if I can find it again. The poster also posted the voicemail guidelines from AT&T and Cingular.
 
I love having a hubby that's a computer programmer!!

Ok, here is the source code from the page. Which means it applied at least when the page was last edited in 2006.

FILE ARCHIVED ON 22:54:05 Jun 29, 2006 AND RETRIEVED FROM THE
INTERNET ARCHIVE ON 8:01:52 Feb 22, 2016.
JAVASCRIPT APPENDED BY WAYBACK MACHINE, COPYRIGHT INTERNET ARCHIVE.


ALL OTHER CONTENT MAY ALSO BE PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT (17 U.S.C.
SECTION 108(a)(3)).
-->
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Found this on another site. Seems to indicate that TH's voice mail could only accommodate 20 voice mails. With that being said, Cingular automatically deleted the messages after 14 days. So, the old voice mails dropped off, creating space for new voice mails, which then became full again, then more dropping off, making way for new voice mails. I know my Verizon voicemail used to say "this message will be saved for 14 days" although I think it now says 21 days.
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I was looking at the voicemail log before bed last night.... and went back to the testimony and went to bed thinking about this LOL dang you BCA haha

So here is what I got out of the testimony and what you linked here.

1 new message: November 16th (not listened to at all)


unopened messages: 8 (skipped or listened too but NOT saved)
Nov 2nd - 5 messages
November 3rd - 3 messages

Old messages: 10 - cingular guy testified that these had been listened too at least partially AND saved
Dated october 31 - 2 messages, Nov 1 - 5 messages, November 2 - 2 messages (last at 8:05am)

So, the only way that they were bumped is if they weren't saved. Unfortunately, we don't know if TH typically left messages on her voicemail and didn't save them but also didn't delete them. It would kinda be a pain in the butt.... she would listen to new messages, then it would move on to the "not saved" one's and then to "saved" ones. She checked her VM a lot, so I'm not sure why she wouldn't just save the one's she wanted for a few days then delete them... but she might have just skipped them to keep them on the system for a few days (I'm thinking maybe contact info for hustle shots or something, and once she was done the shoot, she deleted the info... that would make sense)

I see why the defense was curious about the messages up to Nov 2nd at 8:05am. The one's that remained on her phone were "saved", the others from Nov 2nd and on.... were either listened too, or partially listened too and not saved. For their to have been room on November 3rd for voicemails because other messages got bumped.... they had to have been unsaved messages from around October 18th/19th (to get bumped from the system allowing for new messages)

I would like to know when the report was ran.... I didn't see it in the voicemail guys testimony, but it might have been in the earlier testimony and I just don't have the time to go look right now. This chart says it was ran the morning of November 16th... but uhmmm there is a VM from later that day on there, so it's not logical that it was ran before hand LOL If it was ran anytime after November 16th, then the calls after November 2nd that were not saved should have been "bumped"

Hope that makes sense LOL It's absolutely conceivable they were bumped, I just don't know why the cingular guy didn't point that out ;-) I have to go to work for the day (boooooooooo lol), but will check in later :)
 
missy1974 said:
I was looking at the voicemail log before bed last night.... and went back to the testimony and went to bed thinking about this LOL dang you BCA haha

So here is what I got out of the testimony and what you linked here.

1 new message: November 16th (not listened to at all)


unopened messages: 8 (skipped or listened too but NOT saved)
Nov 2nd - 5 messages
November 3rd - 3 messages

Old messages: 10 - cingular guy testified that these had been listened too at least partially AND saved
Dated october 31 - 2 messages, Nov 1 - 5 messages, November 2 - 2 messages (last at 8:05am)

So, the only way that they were bumped is if they weren't saved. Unfortunately, we don't know if TH typically left messages on her voicemail and didn't save them but also didn't delete them. It would kinda be a pain in the butt.... she would listen to new messages, then it would move on to the "not saved" one's and then to "saved" ones. She checked her VM a lot, so I'm not sure why she wouldn't just save the one's she wanted for a few days then delete them... but she might have just skipped them to keep them on the system for a few days (I'm thinking maybe contact info for hustle shots or something, and once she was done the shoot, she deleted the info... that would make sense)

I see why the defense was curious about the messages up to Nov 2nd at 8:05am. The one's that remained on her phone were "saved", the others from Nov 2nd and on.... were either listened too, or partially listened too and not saved. For their to have been room on November 3rd for voicemails because other messages got bumped.... they had to have been unsaved messages from around October 18th/19th (to get bumped from the system allowing for new messages)

I would like to know when the report was ran.... I didn't see it in the voicemail guys testimony, but it might have been in the earlier testimony and I just don't have the time to go look right now. This chart says it was ran the morning of November 16th... but uhmmm there is a VM from later that day on there, so it's not logical that it was ran before hand LOL If it was ran anytime after November 16th, then the calls after November 2nd that were not saved should have been "bumped"

Hope that makes sense LOL It's absolutely conceivable they were bumped, I just don't know why the cingular guy didn't point that out ;-) I have to go to work for the day (boooooooooo lol), but will check in later :)
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Just looked--it doesn't appear that there is a date ran on the Cingular voicemail report. From reading the reddit thread, it appears he did, but it wasn't clearly understood.
 
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