Prosecutor Juan Martinez releases new book, February 2016 - #2

[Steve44]

Fitting company for one who even smells like a goddess, then.

She may be a goddess, but no one ever said she smells like one.

 

[Hope4More]

I can't see her telling him she was planning a murder, or had committed one. He already considered her mentally unstable, and that would only have confirmed it, and driven him further away, and I think she would know that.

I think later on, when the truth came out that she had killed him, she sold the abuse story to him hard, and knew well how to do that with him in particular, which is how she got his cooperation with the pedo letters, but telling him, or anyone else, before she absolutely had to, would never serve her purpose.

I don't think she told him on June 3 that she was on her way to kill him. But I think she asked for his help in some way that would make him worry afterwards about having been an accomplice.

And I kinda guess that Matt was the first person she pitched a self defense to...like, omg, Matt, you'll never believe what just happened and what he forced me to do.

But....JMO, and open to being persuaded otherwise.

 

[Hope4More]

She may be a goddess, but no one ever said she smells like one.

No one else but her did, but that's exactly what she said to her fellow Purple Plummers before she went off to crawl in the lap of a dishwasher.

 

[Steve44]

No one else but her did, but that's exactly what she said to her fellow Purple Plummers before she went off to crawl in the lap of a dishwasher.

I can see red faces and thought bubbles that say "Yeah, if Goddesses smell like used dishwater."

 

[Hope4More]

I can see red faces and thought bubbles that say "Yeah, if Goddesses smell like used dishwater."

LOL. And welcome back.

 

[TexMex]

Late breakfast on a cloudy day at the beach while I finish JM book

 

[Steve44]

I don't think she told him on June 3 that she was on her way to kill him. But I think she asked for his help in some way that would make him worry afterwards about having been an accomplice.

And I kinda guess that Matt was the first person she pitched a self defense to...like, omg, Matt, you'll never believe what just happened and what he forced me to do.

But....JMO, and open to being persuaded otherwise.

I don't see any evidence that she got or needed any help in the earlier stages, up to the point that she had been in jail for two years. Once she settled on the abuse and pedo stories she needed help, and IMO that's when she roped Matt in and turned him to her side.

There was no way to turn Matt into an accomplice by simply spilling the beans to him. All that would do would send him into the nearest police station and confirm every thought he ever had about her mental instability. Just because she was with him just before and called him just after doesn't mean he was party to what really was on her mind. No one was, and no one really could be. She played roles with everyone, and the roles she played closely surrounding the event were just as contrived and convincing as any other roles she played. Her truth was for herself alone, and she did not consider anyone else worthy or even capable of sharing in it. All of her relationships were by the proxy of the roles she played, and those roles were always blameless and pristine, and could not thrive in the atmosphere of a murder. She alone could accept and deal with that.

 

[RickshawFan]

I loved your description. Did I lose track of a bouncing ball, though? Not sure what you mean about me thinking what you said was irrelevant?

I was responding about the trial video link someone had posted, which was exactly what I was about to go in search of for another thought, watched a section of it and ....up popped that statement by her that they did not make a sex video that day.

JM wrote in his book that they had made a video, which is.....puzzling.

Yes, we got into thread mush....

 

[TexMex]

The link to this part of cross was posted in the other thread a bit ago, I guess? Thought it was here.

In any case, Day 25, 1 of 3 by David Lohr, JM on cross about June 4 sequence, at 22:03:

She admits that they did NOT make a video that day.


In his book though JM says they did. Eh??? She said no, JM!!!

In Chapter 7 JM discusses the taped interview with Flores. Jodi tells Flores they had made a video in addition to the pics from that day.

"We also made a video that day and we deleted it".
Flores: "on that camera?"
Jodi "on his camera" Arias confirmed

Flores then tells her videos are harder to recover than pictures

 

[Hope4More]

I don't see any evidence that she got or needed any help in the earlier stages, up to the point that she had been in jail for two years. Once she settled on the abuse and pedo stories she needed help, and IMO that's when she roped Matt in and turned him to her side.

There was no way to turn Matt into an accomplice by simply spilling the beans to him. All that would do would send him into the nearest police station and confirm every thought he ever had about her mental instability. Just because she was with him just before and called him just after doesn't mean he was party to what really was on her mind. No one was, and no one really could be. She played roles with everyone, and the roles she played closely surrounding the event were just as contrived and convincing as any other roles she played. Her truth was for herself alone, and she did not consider anyone else worthy or even capable of sharing in it. All of her relationships were by the proxy of the roles she played, and those roles were always blameless and pristine, and could not thrive in the atmosphere of a murder. She alone could accept and deal with that.

How would she have roped him in enough after the fact to the degree he was willing to forge letters and commit perjury for her in a murder trial? Especially if, as you believe, he would be willing to go to the police if he became convinced she was dangerously mentally unstable?

My mind is still open as to whether or not she told him afterwards, but I think you underestimate her ability to manipulate people to do her will, and to scramble their brains.

She called Matt the first moment she turned her phone back on. Why in your opinion was that more important to her than trying to repair her alibi ASAP with Ryan Burns?

Why do you think she felt the need to lie about the amount of time she spent with Matt on the June 2, and what they did?

PS. What could be more thrilling to the demented power freak she was than to have Matt unwittedly serve as an accomplice of some sort, then to share that secret of a murder he felt too connected to and guilty about to tell anyone about?

 

[Hope4More]

In Chapter 7 JM discusses the taped interview with Flores. Jodi tells Flores they had made a video in addition to the pics from that day.

"We also made a video that day and we deleted it".
Flores: "on that camera?"
Jodi "on his camera" Arias confirmed

Flores then tells her videos are harder to recover than pictures

Day 24, 3 of 3, 16:15-17:05.

JM on cross, asks her whether or not she told Samuels one of the sex pics was of actual intercourse.

She says-- painful minutes summarized, he must be mistaken, that was about the video we took. I couldn't figure out the timer on the camera.

Referring to my post from yesterday, the next day the camera is discussed again and she's having to admit she wasn't familiar with it, which is when JM asks- so you couldn't figure out how to make a video, right? And she replies -- right.


Pg 96-97, JM's book. Refers to her telling Flores they made a video, then says:

"Her admission came as a surprise to me. She hadn't said much of anything up to that point and now she was volunteering information that was not even known to the detective. I wondered what her motivation for this new disclosure was, and the only thing that seemed logical was that she and Flores were sharing a moment. It was clear to me now that her preoccupation about the photos was partially an effort to find out if their sex video had been recovered."

No, JM!! There was no sex video, as you so brilliantly forced her to admit.

 

[TexMex]

Day 24, 3 of 3, 16:15-17:05.

JM on cross, asks her whether or not she told Samuels one of the sex pics was of actual intercourse.

She says-- painful minutes summarized, he must be mistaken, that was about the video we took. I couldn't figure out the timer on the camera.

Referring to my post from yesterday, the next day the camera is discussed again and she's having to admit she wasn't familiar with it, which is when JM asks- so you couldn't figure out how to make a video, right? And she replies -- right.

I know. I think it's just one more lie she couldn't keep track of..
Perhaps JM is just giving his thinking at that time..when he was reviewing the Flores interrogation

 

[Hope4More]

I know. I think it's just one more lie she couldn't keep track of..

Sorry, see the rest of the post. Phone typing sucks.

This time it would seem JM lost track of one the truths he managed to get her to spit out.

It matters, at least for those who don't believe sex pics were taken that day, much less a video.

ETA....IMO she told Samuels they had intercourse to double down on trashing Travis, but forgot the pics didn't show that. She could and did say anything she wanted to about a video that was deleted and unrecoverable.

 

[Steve44]

How would she have roped him in enough after the fact to the degree he was willing to forge letters and commit perjury for her in a murder trial? Especially if, as you believe, he would be willing to go to the police if he became convinced she was dangerously mentally unstable?

My mind is still open as to whether or not she told him afterwards, but I think you underestimate her ability to manipulate people to do her will, and to scramble their brains.

She called Matt the first moment she turned her phone back on. Why in your opinion was that more important to her than trying to repair her alibi ASAP with Ryan Burns?

Why do you think she felt the need to lie about the amount of time she spent with Matt on the June 2, and what they did?

Manipulation isn't just the ability to get people to do things for you against their own best interests, it involves accurately assessing the persons own psychology and changing your own behavior and molding yourself into someone the person can innately trust and then pushing their boundaries beyond where they would normally go but always acting as a reassuring foundation of trust that they can repeatedly refer back to to reassure themselves that they are doing the right thing when they inevitably begin to question their own behavior.

Matt was already aware that Jodi was mentally unstable. The worst thing she could do would be to say, "actually, I'm a murderer". This would make the above image of trust untenable and preclude any form of manipulation.

As far as why she called Matt right away, my theory is that not only does she play roles with others continuously, she seeks self-assurance through the successful performance of those roles. She knew that Matt considered her mentally unstable, and she had just committed a murder. If she could convince Matt that she was fine, normal, mentally stable, she would feel more that way herself, through the role she was playing for Matt.

As far as bringing Matt over to her side at trial, it's a lot easier to manipulate someone when you're the victim than when you're the aggressor. Once she came up with the pedo/abuse story she was playing the victim for everyone. All she had to do with Matt was make it personal, make them a team, make him the hero rescuing the damsel in distress. He broke the law by being a noble knight in shining armor.

I'm not familiar with how she twisted the June 2 time with Matt, can you fill me in?

 

[Steve44]

PS. What could be more thrilling to the demented power freak she was than to have Matt unwittedly serve as an accomplice of some sort, then to share that secret of a murder he felt too connected to and guilty about to tell anyone about?

He wouldn't feel guilty (why should he?) he would feel creeped out, and run to the police.

 

[Hatfield]

In Chapter 7 JM discusses the taped interview with Flores. Jodi tells Flores they had made a video in addition to the pics from that day.

"We also made a video that day and we deleted it".
Flores: "on that camera?"
Jodi "on his camera" Arias confirmed

Flores then tells her videos are harder to recover than pictures

Just had a thought about stopping and starting videos.

When someone is making a movie on the camera and they Stop it. And then they want to begin recording again for the movie. Does it create a small thumbnail at the beginning of the 2nd movie sequence?

I have only recorded movies a long time ago and cant remember how it works but I was wondering if each time the movie is stopped and then restarted then maybe a thumbnail is created for that particular movie sequence. Like small independent movies. ?

Just was wondering if maybe that is how the thumbnails got created and never got deleted.
It seems I remember LE talking about thumbnail pictures that were found rather than large normal pictures and maybe the starting and stopping of the movie was building them.

 

[Hope4More]

Manipulation isn't just the ability to get people to do things for you against their own best interests, it involves accurately assessing the persons own psychology and changing your own behavior and molding yourself into someone the person can innately trust and then pushing their boundaries beyond where they would normally go but always acting as a reassuring foundation of trust that they can repeatedly refer back to to reassure themselves that they are doing the right thing when they inevitably begin to question their own behavior.

Matt was already aware that Jodi was mentally unstable. The worst thing she could do would be to say, "actually, I'm a murderer". This would make the above image of trust untenable and preclude any form of manipulation.

As far as why she called Matt right away, my theory is that not only does she play roles with others continuously, she seeks self-assurance through the successful performance of those roles. She knew that Matt considered her mentally unstable, and she had just committed a murder. If she could convince Matt that she was fine, normal, mentally stable, she would feel more that way herself, through the role she was playing for Matt.

As far as bringing Matt over to her side at trial, it's a lot easier to manipulate someone when you're the victim than when you're the aggressor. Once she came up with the pedo/abuse story she was playing the victim for everyone. All she had to do with Matt was make it personal, make them a team, make him the hero rescuing the damsel in distress. He broke the law by being a noble knight in shining armor.

I'm not familiar with how she twisted the June 2 time with Matt, can you fill me in?

She wrote a June 2-3 journal entry after the fact to establish a timeline, etc. The entry is available on juror 13's webpage, but a quick summary of the Matt portion-

She wrote she had met Matt and his friend Kareem at a specific restaurant (trying to remember which city), had tuna tartare, walked up the street a few blocks and sang karaoke, even naming the songs and how her singing was so powerful it changed the mood of everyone in the bar.

Meanwhile, as analyzed here awhile ago--of course, and in great depth .....her whole story of that couldn't be true, start to finish.

To include , at the very time she is telling LE who she knows will be reading her journals what an incredible singer she is, a new account on Flikyr is opened using his name and photos of their travels are posted that Travis did not have in his possession.

Not that he would have been posting them anyway- why would he, and since iirc he was fairly involved text flirting about the same time.

 

[Steve44]

Sorry, see the rest of the post. Phone typing sucks.

This time it would seem JM lost track of one the truths he managed to get her to spit out.

It matters, at least for those who don't believe sex pics were taken that day, much less a video.

ETA....IMO she told Samuels they had intercourse to double down on trashing Travis, but forgot the pics didn't show that. She could and did say anything she wanted to about a video that was deleted and unrecoverable.

I think the confusion is that she said both. They made a video, and that she didn't know how to make a video, so they didn't make a video.

As to not knowing how, she specifically refers to not getting the timer right.

I think it's reasonable to assume that some video footage was shot, but it wasn't what they wanted, it was somewhat uncontrolled, inadvertent, and haphazard.

This covers both statements. "We shot a video." and "I didn't know how to shoot a video."

 

[Hope4More]

He wouldn't feel guilty (why should he?) he would feel creeped out, and run to the police.

How would you feel if a woman you knew was unbalanced stopped at your house on the way to kill someone, asked you...for example, to help her find a way to prove TA had abused her, and then she called you 2 days later and told you she had tried that idea but he had responded by attacking her and she had to kill him in self defense?

Thing is, all of this is complete speculation, and subject to being shaped by one's subjective beliefs about what makes people tick.

The one thing Nurmi has ever said that struck me is what he said in his rambling book-- that he is quite sure that she would hsve received the DP if Matt had testified . Though being forced by JM to confess he'd forged the pedo letters might have been "all" that Nurmi was referring to.

 

[TexMex]

I think the confusion is that she said both. They made a video, and that she didn't know how to make a video, so they didn't make a video.

As to not knowing how, she specifically refers to not getting the timer right.

I think it's reasonable to assume that some video footage was shot, but it wasn't what they wanted, it was somewhat uncontrolled, inadvertent, and haphazard.

This covers both statements. "We shot a video." and "I didn't know how to shoot a video."

Agree.